[Lucid]

I was looking at doing a DSB, and wanted to know the best sand type. Should it be the smallest particle size (0.2 to 1.22 mm grain size) or a mix of larger+smaller particle sizes? thanx

[Ninong]

Eric,

There is no one-size-fits-all answer to your question. There can be more than one correct answer depending your goals, what you plan to keep in your tank, what sort of flow you plan to have in your tank, etc.

Suggested articles by Dr. Ron Shimek here, here and here and by Dr. Rob Toonen here and here. Rob Toonen makes the suggestion that a fine-particle deep sand bed may not be the best option for a high-flow, high-intensity, SPS dominated reef aquarium. It can be done and it has been done but with modifications.

A very brief article by Rob Toonen describing the particle size distribution of Southdown aragonite sand (which is what I used in my tank).

I can give you very good arguments for a fine particle 5"-6" DSB provided your tank is at least 36" tall and equally good arguments for a 3" DSB with 1-1.5 mm particle sand (Florida Keys sand) in the same tank if you want to crank up the flow. It all depends on what you want.

P.S. -- Tell me the sand product (brand name) you're looking at, tell me the dimensions of your tank, tell me what you plan on keeping (mostly SPS or mostly softies), tell me what sort of flow you plan on running (return pump plus powerheads, especially if you're going to be running any Tunze Stream types) and I'll tell you what I would choose.

[Lucid]

Ninong ,

I plan on having mostly softies in this tank. Plan on upgrading to a sump asap. I was looking at getting Aragamax Aquarium Sand for the SB. Nothing too thick, but I was thinking at least 3-4".

75g; 18W x 20H x 48L
wet/dry currently w/ 400gph return
2x Koralia 3's 850gph ea.

Thanks for those links!

[Ninong]

Yes, that Carib-Sea Aragamax would work for a fine particle DSB. I wouldn't go more than about 3.25" deep in a tank that is only 20" tall. I had a 6" DSB but my tank was 27.5" tall. I used Southdown sand (similar in particle size to Aragamax) but I was unable to use a Tunze Stream because it was too powerful. I had sand all over the live rock. I might have been able to make it work eventually if I had kept at it but I gave up and went with just two 3/4" Sea-Swirls, one at each end of the tank, handling the flow from my system return pump, which I estimate at about 1,250gph: 500gph for each Sea-Swirl and 250gph for the lock-line return coming out of the corner overflow.

Okay, since you actually thanked me for providing you with links to those rather lengthy articles, here are a couple more: Part One and Part Two of the experiments Rob ran comparing sand beds of various depths and various particle size compositions against plenums. The results in some respects were unexpected.

Rob Toonen's homepage. List of Rob's publications.

P.S. -- I ordered a "Detritivore Kit" from Morgan Lidster at Inland Aquatics. Highly recommended. The three extra items listed at the bottom (three Stomatella varia, five peppermint snails, five micro stars) were all included in addition to the standard items. In addition, I added some spaghetti worms, orange at $4.99 each (just add one or two of these if you want some because as long as they arrive alive you'll be in business -- they multiply like crazy asexually within a few months!) I also purchased similar products from a guy in Hawaii, a guy in South Carolina (who went of out business), a guy in Maryland and a guy in the Florida Keys. And from all of them I got a small amount of live sand -- real live sand -- usually just one or two pounds, except that I got 12 pounds from the guy in South Carolina (I paid for 10 pounds but he shipped 12 pounds). In other words, the sand from the guy in South Carolina was the sand in the bottom of the large vats that he used to cure his live rock. And every once in a while he would dump a bag of Fiji live sand in there just for diversity. That sand was by far the livliest of all of them. He shipped it overnight in a little styrofoam shipping container. It actually had lots of worms and stuff large enough to see crawling around.

[zhenya]

I can't add much to the excellent advice already given by Ninong, except perhaps that when you start constructing your sand bed make sure to give a nice slope towards the back of the tank if you don't want to see real thick sand bed. After a while it doesn't look all that great at the edge (blackish gray color with all sorts of bubbles ). I see about 1.5 - 2 inches of my sand bed's edge, the rest is sloped slightly towards the back.
Good luck with it!

[Lucid]

Ninong,

I have been playing around with those 2 Koralia's to get a desirable flow pattern. Pointed at angles from the back wall was ok with one, but when I added the second, it really amped up the flow (too strong). Now I have them on opposite ends pointed a bit more up and all seems decent. Probably will need to take out one to reduce the flow...

That is too bad about the guy in SC, sounds like some good sand! Definitely will be going with Inland Aquatics and maybe with IPSF to help seed the bed.

zhenya,

That is a good idea. Would allow me to see a bit more of the sand too (top).

[zhenya]

Eric,

I have two Korallia 3's in my 75g tank, and two Maxi-Jet 1200 power heads on the wave maker.My sand stays put but I do have a mixture of larger and real fine sand. The larger sand came from the vendor in Florida and I was disappointed in the size originally, but it did help keep the rest of the sand down.

[FireEater]

Originally Posted by Lucid

I was looking at getting Aragamax Aquarium Sand for the SB.

Do youself a big favor and go with The Special Grade Reef Sand

You will be thankful later on when you have no snowstorms in your tank. And yes, you do stand a good chance of having the fine sand blown around and landing all over your rocks and corals by numerous events. IE, Fish, powerheads, moving stuff around, ect...

The best thing I did was change out to this sand.

Also, just buy the dry sand in the bags, you get more for your money as you are not paying for the water in the live sand. The dry sand will come to life soon enough in your tank.

[Lucid]

How many pounds of sand should I get to achieve a 3" bed? Like 2lbs per gallon ratio (150lbs)? I know more is always better...

Thinking I might mix the agramax with the seaflor, like 70/30 or maybe 80/20, any comments?

Thanks

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Lucid

How many pounds of sand should I get to achieve a 3" bed?

You will need approximately 144 lbs of Aragamax to achieve a 3" depth in your tank (8 lbs/sq.ft. per inch of depth). That's based on ~90 lbs per cubic foot. According to Carib-Sea, Aragamax weighs approximately 90-100 lbs per cubic foot.

Like 2lbs per gallon ratio (150lbs)?

The volume of the aquarium has nothing to do with the calculation of the amount of sand needed. The only statistic that matters is the surface area of the floor of your tank. In the calculation above, I did not subtract for any corner overflow compartment(s) -- I used 6 sq. ft. as the floor area of your tank.

Thinking I might mix the agramax with the seaflor, like 70/30 or maybe 80/20, any comments?

I wouldn't do that if I were you. I would use one or the other. For most applications, I would go with the Aragamax and I definitely would not mix in anything as large as Seaflor.

[Lucid]

I don't have a corner overflow so that would be right sq. footage. Glad you can do math @ 1 am lol, I sure can't!

I wasn't sure about mixing or layering different size substrates. But I read Guide to Successful Live Sand Substrates and thought that would look nice. Thanks for your input!

[Ninong]

Morgan Lidster of Inland Aquatics has a different approach to sand bed composition.

[Ninong]

More on Morgan Lidster's recommendations for a deep sand bed. His approach is different from that recommended by Dr. Ron Shimek. I agree with his recommendation to order one of his "detritivore kits" but not with his recommendation to include queen conchs and "sand dwelling stars." The queen conchs get much too big (8-12") for anything but the largest home aquariums and the sand dwelling stars are predators on the good sand dwelling critters that are so beneficial to your sand bed. One of those stars might be acceptable in a tank larger than 300 gallons but I wouldn't put one in anything smaller.

And I don't agree with his recommendation on hermit crabs at all. IMO they do more harm than good. If you must have some hermit crabs, limit yourself to just two or three scarlet reef hermits. They kill too many snails for one thing. And they are predators on the critters that live in the top layer of the sand bed.

[Lucid]

Ya I definitely don't want something eating the livestock I pay for in the sand. And hermits are neat, but too many people said no to them, so I'll do the same. The micro stars included in the kit are ok I assume, just not any "sand sifting" organisms?

Thanks again Ninong, you're a great knowledge base to have around for us newbies.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Lucid

The micro stars included in the kit are ok I assume...

Yes, both "micro stars" and "mini stars" are great. It's just the larger sand shifting stars that will do too much 'damage' to a tank of your size. One of those in a tank larger than 300 gallons would be okay. They need a large amount of sand bed surface to thrive and their predation can be tolerated in something like a 500-gal tank.

Be sure to add two or three "spaghetti worms" to your order. You have to pay extra for them and they're kinda pricey but you don't need all that many because they multiply like crazy asexually. I ordered six of them and within nine months I had six dozen of them in my tank.

Inland Aquatics will include some baby bristle worms (Eurythoe complanata). These are great and they will multiply like crazy.