SPS problems

[Papa Doug]

Well guess I wont be adding T-5,s to my 90g. Moved my sps back to their 45g cube yesterday.

I have had problems since moving them to the 90, and that's not new to them, as they have made the trip before just fine. I first thought the new Lumenarcs, were to strong for them, as compared with my normal reflectors.

I dont think that was it though. My problems started when I added sand, instead of my usual bare bottom. May not be related but who knows.

Its very weird though. A larger purple cap had partly bleached and lightened but a smaller green cap is thriving. Several acro,s are looking not so good with one showing RTN from the bottom up. A beautiful blue tip grown from a small frag to a nice colony has lost all its colour but is still growing with polys extension. Same with a couple others.

Two different milli colonies, also grown from small pieces and what I though could live in a kitchen sink, look terrible although still growing and showing some extension.

Yet a bunch of other frags that were not doing the best before are now looking great. HUH.

I swear, I,m going to go back to soft corals soon.
So, they are going to thrive or not in my 45g cube. Its lit with a 250w 12K Reeflux/ CV electronic ballast. Still using the normal parabolic reflector but need something better. Chicken to try the Lumenarc again. ;;



I wonder if I had an o2/co2 problem. My 90g was sumpless, although lots of water turbulance and my Tunze skimmer. It was always fine before but I wonder if the sandbed was lowering the 02. My ph, which has always had trouble reaching 8 in the 90 but never showing any problems, was running much lower this time. In the cube, with its small sump, its usually over 8, depending on how much kalk I run.

Anyways, the low ph, is what makes me wonder about the relationship of my sandbed, which I know competes for the tanks oxygen, and my sumpless system. This is what made me move the corals back to the cube and at least eliminate that problem, if it was one.

[Poseidon]

Sorry to hear that Doug. I have always used a DSB, and have SPS that are thriving, I do have a large water volume, a beckett skimmer, and tons of surface area with the basement sump.

How about Mg levels? Mine tend to hover around 1000... Is yours lower then that?

[charlie]

I am thinking you may be right in your thinking Doug. How long ago did you add the sand?? I don't think it had anything to do with the light, if you acclimated them correctly, I don't see that changing much. Have you tried to contact Kevin at all.
I would go ahead and try to give them the best ligting option that you have, and that is the Lumenarc. JMHO
How high above the water was the reflector in the 90?

[Papa Doug]

I have had luck with dsb before, but never in a sumpless set up. I remember reading an article once by Sprung and oxygen/co2 exchange. I believe it was more plenum oriented but still the same principle. I also remember experimenting with my 225g, with its huge deep overflows.

The large beckett I was running then, made little difference but the overflows running or not could make almost a .2 or more difference in the ph values.

My magnesium is around 1350 Mike. When I make up my IO salt mix, I add a bit of calcium & a fair bit of mag. following a reciept several of use. I also pay close attention to my calcium & alk. levels, so they dont fluctuate much.

Charlie, they were about 18in. above the 90 and I ran staggered or shorter lighting periods at the start. For sure they are brighter. Dont have a meter but the visable difference is very noticable.

My poor clowns are sure peeved. Just layed a new batch of eggs in their pvc pipe in the 90 but as the room is half in the 45, I removed it. They are giving me the eye. Dont think I will put my hand in there for awile.

[charlie]

I have had luck with dsb before, but never in a sumpless set up. I remember reading an article once by Sprung and oxygen/co2 exchange. I believe it was more plenum oriented but still the same principle. I also remember experimenting with my 225g, with its huge deep overflows.

The large beckett I was running then, made little difference but the overflows running or not could make almost a .2 or more difference in the ph values.

My magnesium is around 1350 Mike. When I make up my IO salt mix, I add a bit of calcium & a fair bit of mag. following a reciept several of use. I also pay close attention to my calcium & alk. levels, so they dont fluctuate much.

Charlie, they were about 18in. above the 90 and I ran staggered or shorter lighting periods at the start. For sure they are brighter. Dont have a meter but the visable difference is very noticable.

My poor clowns are sure peeved. Just layed a new batch of eggs in their pvc pipe in the 90 but as the room is half in the 45, I removed it. They are giving me the eye. Dont think I will put my hand in there for awile.

Good Lord, if they are anything like Gene's clown, your arm could be hamburger!!!!!!

Mike, you really should try to pick up that Mag. level, that could cause problems in the long run.

[Poseidon]

Hmm, I am stumped then Doug. Charlie, I know... but it gets so frustrating. In order to increase Mg just a little, you ahve to add 10 pounds of Epsom salts... (Just Kidding)

[charlie]

Doug, like I said before, I would try to contact Kevin and see what he has to offer.

Mike, I ended up using Tech M to get my level to over 1300. I had to use a bunch, I think it was over a half gallon.

[Papa Doug]

I purchase my magnesium and calcium from another aquarist. Both made following Randy,s suggestions.

He also adds a specific amount to his 50g barrel he makes saltwater in. I have it broken down to correct amounts for a 5g salt bucket. We only use it with IO though. I add about 1/4 cup mag and about a 1/2 teaspoon of calcium to the new ro water and let it mix first before adding the salt.

Brings the IO levels up where they should be and there is never any precipitate now. Also way less calcium build ups in pumps, etc. His, {250g loaded sps tank} and mine, stay at around 1350ppm magnesium. I know of several others that use this method of just use his products, {again, same as Randy,s}, to top off mag and/or add them and a buffer as a two part additive, instead of other calcium additives, like reactors or kalk. My friend does use both of those though and only adds them to his new salt mix, as I do.

[Papa Doug]

Threw out my nicest acro yesterday. I have never saved a coral suffering rtn by fragging it. Just does not seem to stop the rtn and a complete waste of time.

Green cap, that was one of the corals doing ok, has completely bleached in two days. My purple cap seems to be getting better slowly, along with the other acro,s and milli,s. I hope.

[zhenya]

Hi Doug,
Sorry to hear of your problems with the sps...although I must say that I don't know of anyone keeping them that haven't had problems at one time or another.
I have two Lumenarcs on my 75 with 250 watters in them, never had issue with bleaching coral because of them. Had many other problems but the lighting I believe wasn't at fault.

On the oxygen issue.., I can see it to be a problem at night time when all the corals respire and produce co2.During day time it shouldn't be an issue during photosynthesis. What kind of sand did you add?

[Papa Doug]

Gene, it was a Carib-sea type aragonite, not so fine but not as large as the 2mm size sand. I think its almost impossible to figure out what causes some acro,s to go down the tubes. I think just looking at them the wrong way can trigger it.

I still think an oxygen problem started it but could be any number of things. I also agree I dont think it was the Lumenarcs as the acro,s suffered from rtn and not bleaching. Although my caps showed signs of bleaching and stress from the more intense lights. My purple seems to be recovering now but a small green one that was doing fine has now bleached completely.

When I change the standard reflector I,m now running to another Lumenarc type, I will use the dimming feature of my CV ballast to make sure its not them. I was running a duel Galaxy on the 90, so could not do that, although I,m sure I took enough precautions.

[Papa Doug]

Put one of the Lumenarc,s back on the cube. Its unbelievable the difference between the light from it and using a normal old parabolic reflector. Almost mind boggling.

I,m running my dimmable CV ballast now, so have it cut way back. Just in case the intensity from the Lumenarcs was the problem.

[charlie]

Sounds good Doug. How are you going to handle the increase in the light, one hour on either side weekly??????

[Papa Doug]

Not sure what you mean Charlie. I,m currently running a normal lighting period but I have my ballast dialed way back, so the 12K Reeflux is only running around 60% intensity.

I will dial it up a little every few days. They say when turned up complete, its actually over driving the bulb a bit. Likely keep it at around 7/8th. when I get there.

Its a cool feature of the CV ballasts.

[charlie]

I probably didn't make myself real clear, did I? You answered my question though, believe it or not!!!!!

That is a cool feature of those ballasts, isn't it???

[Papa Doug]

That is a cool feature of those ballasts, isn't it???

Yes, a handy feature, esp. for acclimatizing to a new bulb.

[charlie]

Have you got a link or something to those ballasts? I have been running the PFO ballasts forever, been really happy with them.
I would agree that is a real handy item to have for acclimation to new bulbs.

[Papa Doug]

Have you got a link or something to those ballasts? I have been running the PFO ballasts forever, been really happy with them.
I would agree that is a real handy item to have for acclimation to new bulbs.

Just the CV home page Charlie. But it has info on the ballasts. I purchased one local, more so because thats what he carried than any other reason and for a little more, figured I would try the dimming feature.

Its also suppose to drive the 12K Reeflux brighter than other electronics, {dont know if thats true}, but if the top end of the dimmer is actually in overdrive, then one could see why but that should apply to any bulb.

I may try a 20K Radium in it also one day but so far, impressed with my 12K. My duel Galaxy electronic seemed to drive them fairy bright also.

[charlie]

I wonder what it's performance is compared to the PFO HQI???? Time to go in search of...................

[Papa Doug]

I dont think it drives them as much. From all the threads I read on the different ballasts @ RC, the HQI still drives bulbs a lot more. But then those are two different crowds, the electronic versus the HQI. Would be like listening to politicians from two different parties argue. :LOL:

I know of a couple guys who drive Radiums with Galaxy electronic and are happy with the color but dont believe its as white/bright as when on HQI. Now I have not seen them driven on the CV ballast but would guess it would be a little more than the others but still less than HQI.

Of course thats all speculation on my part. If the 12L reeflux keep going up in price, {now close to Radiums}, or I end up not pleased with it, I will try Radium.