120 Gallon Tank Rebuild

[tholleyh46]

Converting my 450 Liter Tank to a 120 Gallon

Well,

I'm off to the races on taking down my aquarium (just a couple months after getting it up and running in a new location) to buff out some scratches I made with a mag-cleaner and plumb it with NPT PVC pipe.

I have it up and running smoothly but I had to cut all the metric plumbing out of it and its been too many revamps to have made it work again. The way it was plumbed was with metric PVC pipe and through the bottom of the tank it did not use bulkheads, just PVC couplers. The holes were drilled to fit the couplers and they were glued with a sealant. Worked fine, no leaks, but they were solidly in there. I cracked the bottom a little and sealed it up. Set it back up with a patch. The patch is holding fine, but I'm currently running it with no sump, which translates into an under-sized skimmer, etc.)

Part of me says don't mess with it because all the parameters are fine, but I've already convinced myself to do it. I have been slowly gathering all of the equipment I need to reuse all of my original pumps, chiller, etc. I bought the new Red Sea C-skim 1200 skimmer to run in the sump when its back up and plumbed.

Okay, first question - tomorrow I am going to go out and grab a 40-Gallon tank to use as temporary quarters for most of my aqualife. I have a bit much to call a 40G home but I am curious if I cram 120 gallons worth of bio-load in a 40G for three days. What is my best chances of success? I don't plan on actually begining the project until MLK weekend, but am trying to get everything in order. I think they will be fine. I will grab the tank, a Sea Clear 40G combo tomorrow. I have several SPS, LPS, and Soft corals (all just frags for the most part), about a dozen hermits and a dozen snails. Additionally, I have a small Yellow Tang, a lawnmower blenny, 3 assorted damsel fishes, 5 chromies, 2 crocea clams, 1 fire shrimp and 2 peppermint shrimp. I also have a 10 gallon tank I could use and plan to use a rubbermaid container to house the majority of the rock.

I intend to accomplish this during the MLK weekend and would probably need 3 days to complete the project. Any recommendations for success or if someone sees flaws in my general plan your feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[charlie]

I think you may be stretching the limits of everythings patience, might be a good time to break that new skimmer in!!!!! When I redid my tank a year ago, I used a 100 gallon tub that I got at the local ag store, they are food grade and just a great thing to have in general. I was looking for a pic of mine, but I can't seem to find one.
You are in for a long weekend my friend, can you get some help? I had 4 other guys helping me, and we replumbed, and redid my 300 in 14 hours.
What is MLK weekend???
Either way, make sure you have a detailed plan, there will be changes, but if you have a basic plan, you can make due, know what I mean???
Good luck!!

[tholleyh46]

I get a three day holiday for Martin Luther King Day coming up later in Jan. I figure I can probably do it much faster, but once I get her plumbed probably need to let it sit for a day before filling it back up with water. I have the plan of what I want to do already, it isn't anything that I haven't done before. I was just real leary of switching the plumbing over, I like the way my tank was plumbed and I hadn't seen anything similar here. Wanted to use a similar set-up, wasn't familiar with bulkhead fittings either. I've looked at several different set-ups, and now feel I can plumb it similarly to the way it was with NPT pipe. I'm slowly acquiring all the materials and I have a good idea of what I want to do.

I'll look into a large tub as well perhaps, and maybe getting a little help.
Thanks.

[zhenya]

Tom,

I think you'd be fine if you could separate your fish load somehow. 10+ fish in a 40g for three days could do them in. If you could get another container (30-40g), like the rubbermade, or even kiddie pool, I think that could improve your chances. Get few small powerheads as well to move water in those containers and few smaller heaters. And, make lots of salt water in advance, too.
And lastly, like Charlie said, get some help if possible.
Good luck with your project!

[charlie]

Tom, I don't doubt your skills, believe me, but like Gene said, the fish are gonna have a tough time in that 40.
You had me going with the MLK!!!
Please look into a larger container for the fish, you and them will be much happier. Again, good luck. You are gonna take pics, right???

[tholleyh46]

Will take pics and document the whole thing, I really want to get some feedback on the way I like to plumb it. Can do the rubbermaid thing for sure, already planning to get one for most of the LR. Over the years I've acquired quite a collection of powerheads, heaters, skimmers, pumps, air pumps, etc. It'll be good to put them to use.

Basically, I'm going to replumb my tank with 4 different returns, that I'll have reduced to 1/2". I've been told anything less than 3/4 is too small; but I had it plumbed in Japan with 13mm (which is really 1/2") but smaller than US 1/2" pipe and it worked well. I'll go from a 3/4 return (closed loop) from one pump to three 1/2" spray nozzles placed around the tank. Then from the sump I'll use 1/2" straight to a spray bar along the back of the tank.

I had really good flow with this before and I liked the clean look inside the tank without a lot of power heads and the like.

Anyway, I'll take lots of photos and see how it works out.

[charlie]

Just remember, use the largest diameter of pipe up until you have to break it down to the smaller size, if you know what I mean. If you split it to soon, you will lose a bunch of flow. I can't wait to see what you come up with!!! This type of undertaking usually leads to everybody learning something.

[tholleyh46]

What is a good site for figuring out flow rates for aquarium plumbing? In planning my closed loop system I will have to use 1/2" fittings both going into and out of the pump, I can certainly open them up to 3/4" but when they are eventually reduced through a 1/2" fitting (albeit a small distance) is there any benefit by using a wider diameter pipe. Remember, this is a closed loop system under pressure, gravity flow rates don't apply. I've been looking to find information on flow with reducers and the like but haven't found anything useful.

Curious on what others have found. Pump inlets/outlets on my Iwaki RMD-400 are 16mm, I have found metric adapters for 16mm to 1/2". I looked for 16mm to 3/4" without success. So if I use the half inch just long enough to flange it to a 3/4" input/output my question is; under pressure do I really gain anything? Under the tank I will use all 45 degree elbows and flexible PVC to eliminate having to use 90 degree elbows.

Any ideas?

[tholleyh46]

I am a flyer by trade, so I'm pretty familiar with Bernoulli's Principle and how the venturi effect produces lift over airfoils/wings and enables flight - but with liquids I'm at a loss and beyond the scope of my liberal arts education.

[charlie]

I think RC has some flow charts. I think it is best to use the correct size plumbing in and out of a pump, more or less and you are asking for problems. that is just my opinion though, other folks may have different ideas.
I think you would be better off with 1/2" all the way.

Hey, at least you got an education!!!

[tholleyh46]

Charlie,

Thanks, that was kinda my logic as well, but folks keep telling me that 1/2" is too small and I will not get enough flow. In making inquiries about converting my my metric Iwaki pumps over to use English I got this back from Iwaki USA:

Subject: RE: FW: Iwaki Pumps-

Xxxx,

Happy New Year!

I suspect he has metric threaded aquarium version of our MD type pumps. In Japan we sell a dedicated aquarium version that use different motors (quieter/higher effcy). Motors are gray/silver in color. Pumps in Japan are available with conversion fittings (see picture below), allows users to take threaded version and convert to a hose type. We do not stock these fittings as we do not have any demand for them in the US.. He can hard plumb to his pump using metric fittings at the pumps inlet/outlet. We can get the fittings if he wants them, although there would be a 2 - 3 wk lead-time. (estimated list price ~ $ 60 - 80.00/pump).

Xxxx

[charlie]

Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But, I suppose you have to get what you need, unless you are gonna purchase another pump. The Iwaki's I have are all 1" in and out.

[tholleyh46]

The 16mm pipe is about the same as 1/2", only very slightly larger - and if you've ever measured the inner diameter of a 1/2" PVC it is larger than 1/2" and rated to being capable of delivering over 1200 gph under pressure. My pump is rated at an equivalency of about 750 gph, so I do not understand the restriction. But if there is a benefit to using a larger pipe with some sort of logic that I can follow then I'm all for it.

I understand the gravity argument, and my drain is 1.5" and my return pump only moves about 250 gph so I'm fairly confident that 1/2" PVC can handle that quite fine.

Just looking for alternate beliefs. I've asked this question on RC and everyone seems to think 3/4" is the smallest you should use, just because. So far, no one can really tell me why in terms I can understand.

[tholleyh46]

Charlie,

I didn't go the route they recommended above, price seemed a little steep and my aim was to use NPT vice metric PVC. The metric is too hard to get here, virtually impossible.

If you were to buy an Iwaki aquarium pump in Japan this is what it would come with:



I just contacted Rei-Sea in Japan (who markets these there) and bought the small PVC pipe pieces you see. I'll just simply use an adapter hard-plumbed to the end of those making the rest of the plumbing all NPT - vice metric and only spent $50 and got double what I needed, just in case.

[tholleyh46]

Well,

I was stumped on this flow issue and I did some more researching and I found this article in Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine by by SANJAY JOSHI, Ph.D., NATHAN PADEN & SHANE GRABER. It even has an excel spreadsheet you can download to play with formulas: "AN ENGINEERING VIEW OF AQUARIUM SYSTEMS DESIGN: PUMPS AND PLUMBING"

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu.../featurejp.htm

It seems a pressure type pump, like an Iwaki, isn't as much affected by head or pressure loss than other type pumps like a circulation or Ampmaster type pump. Those you can actually amp up quite a bit with upsizing. Nonetheless, using a larger pipe from what I can understand reduces the velocity of the water and creates less friction. I think upsizing the pipe coming to the pump and leaving the pump until I'm ready to reduce it into the tank as Charlie initially suggested will be beneficial. In fact, I think I can get another 100 fpm from upsizing the pipe. I used the spreadsheet, and while it doesn't allow advanced calculations with different sizes of pipes I found that I can expect to get appx 650 gph using 1/2" and 750 gph using 3/4". The pump is rated at about 810 gph at the output. Therefore, I am hoping to get appx 700 gph from the pump at the three outlets. When reducing the flow to three outlets I'm assuming the velocity will be low enough that the friction isn't that great, although I don't really know - just a guess.

Okay, now I can't wait to finish - will test this theory (flow rates) on the closed loop once finished.

If I'm interpreting this incorrectly someone please redirect me.

[charlie]

Don't ask me what I am going up at this hour????????????????:eek3::eek3::eek3::eek3:

I would think that I would just make sure I can redo it real easy if it doesn't work. The only time I ever tried using a larger size on the output, I almost ruined the pump.

[tholleyh46]

Was that a pressure-type pump? Really, I'm not a flow madman. I don't mind using my two Koralia's to supplement the pumps. Right now I have 5 powerheads in use though. A bit cluttered. I did some sketching last night and I dont think my fuge idea will work under the tank as intended - too much clutter. I'll have to put the fuge next to the tank. I don't have a closet or anthing, so I think I may up it to a 20 or 29g vice a 10g as I'd originally planned.

[tholleyh46]

When sketching it out, the fuge would have been too close to the top (bottom of the tank )

[tholleyh46]

In my aqualife, I also forgot to list two firefish gobies. Don't see them too much, they like to hang out behind the live rock.

I was expecting this project and did actually have a very low bioload with respect to fish; but a co-worker was moving soon so I adopted the gobies, peppermint shrimp, and chromis. Picked up the 40G yesterday, still waiting for plumbing parts from Japan; hoping they come in sometime next week or I'll be delayed with the project.

[charlie]

Was that a pressure-type pump? Really, I'm not a flow madman. I don't mind using my two Koralia's to supplement the pumps. Right now I have 5 powerheads in use though. A bit cluttered. I did some sketching last night and I dont think my fuge idea will work under the tank as intended - too much clutter. I'll have to put the fuge next to the tank. I don't have a closet or anthing, so I think I may up it to a 20 or 29g vice a 10g as I'd originally planned.

No, it was a little giant pump, a piece of junk actually. I like the Korallias that I have in my 80, they replaced 4 MJ1200. They are rather large, but also rather effective. I think you may like the fuge next to the tank, sometimes I just sit and stare at the diversity of life in mine. It is a little world all to itself.