Should they stay or should they go?

[zhenya]

I changed my metal halide bulbs from megachrome (14.5K) to Ice Cap 14K last night, while the lights were off.
I came downstairs this morning not knowing exactly what I will see.., and so far the color of the tank looks a bit too blue for my liking.
The reason I swapped my bulbs was because they were getting old (8 month) and I could see them yellowing right in front of my eyes.
Anyway, what you guys think?

Here's a shot from yesterday with megachromes.



And this picture I took this morning. No color correction of any kind were aplied.


I'm hoping that this new bulbs will burn in and I get to like them after all. I just couldn't make myself pay $100 for each bulb again and went with this new bulbs that cost only $64.

[Seige]

Wow. Nice tank.

First image with the old bulbs looks a lot better. Can you mix the bulbs for now. 1 old 1 new to maybe get a bit more life out of the old ones? Maybe it'll look ok that way. Might not work. Not Idea. I'm still setting up my first tank.

[charlie]

You know me Gene, I like the second shot!!!!

[Lucid]

Hey Gene, you have a shot of the megachromes when you first installed the bulbs? I like the second pic, way more brighter and bluer.

[Doodaa]

It's hard to tell from the pics because the light colors bleach out the dark in the second, but I'm guessing in RL the 2nd shot looks better.

Give it a couple days, you'll get used to it and like it just the same again...I think the bluer color looks better than the yellowish colors.

What size tank is that and what is the wattage of the MH's?

[zhenya]

You know me Gene, I like the second shot!!!!

I had no doubt you would like the second shot, Charlie.

[zhenya]

Hey Gene, you have a shot of the megachromes when you first installed the bulbs? I like the second pic, way more brighter and bluer.

Eric, I'm sure I have it somewhere in my gallery. I'll see if I can find it and post it for you later on.

PS. Here you go, Eric. This picture is from 07 when I first started to use megachromes.

[zhenya]

What size tank is that and what is the wattage of the MH's?

It;s a 75g and bulbs are 250w.
I'm not much into blues as it tends to wash out things, however, I really don't need anymore growth than what I had, so little bluer (and most likely less par) bulbs would probably be better in my situation.
And you are right, I need to wait it out and see if I can live with these.

[Parrothead]

I'm with Charlie, second pic looks awesome

[Ninong]

zhenya,

I don't like either one.

The first one is too yellow and the second one is too blue. My fixture came with 250w AB-10000 HQI DE lamps that I later switched to BLV. I liked the appearance of the BLV better. All I had was two 55w actinic PCs to balance out the 500 watts of halides. My tank had a bright 'daylight' appearance to it without any hint of yellow but without the bluish tint that changes the coloration of the corals.

It's a good thing I didn't check with Sanjay's test data before I ordered the BLV lamps or I might not have ordered them. I ordered them based on my memory of his very first tests of the Ushio (BLV) 250w 10,000K HQI DE lamp several years ago when he was surprised that it put out just as much PAR as some 400w lamps (especially 20,000K) and more PAR than any of the SE 250w lamps. I remember his measurement. It was 128 PPFD but he didn't measure with a glass UV shield, which is an absolute necessity. Back then he was trying to keep everything equal and since he didn't use a shield for any of the SE lamps, he chose not to use a shield for the DE lamps. In the past few years he has taken measurements both with and without a shield. His new test data search feature uses results from 1998 on, so it doesn't contain any of those earlier test results.

After I already had my new BLV lamps installed, I then looked up Sanjay's most recent test data to see why there was such a noticeable difference between the appearance of the AB-10000 and the BLV 10,000K. And, yes, I realize that the 14-month old AB lamps would be a lot yellower than the brand new BLV lamps but I was basing the comparison on my memory of the initial appearance of the tank when it was first set up with the AB lamps. The initial appearance of the BLV lamps -- after 10 days break-in period -- was better than the initial appearance of the AB lamps after break-in.

Sanjay's most recent data on those two lamps is as follows:

AB-10000
w/o shield: 128 PPFD, 9132 CCT
w/shield: 104 PPFD, 8225 CCT

BLV 10,000K
w/o shield: 111 PPFD, 12192 CCT
w/shield: 88 PPFD, 10473 CCT

The answer to my question is right there in the CCT numbers. The AB-10000, which the manufacturer claims is actually 13,000K, is not even close to 10,000K. That AB-10000 number is the model number that they have been using on that lamp for years. They kept that same number even after they claimed that they made changes to the lamp that resulted in its coloration being 13,000K instead of 10,000K. That was about nine years ago.

The BLV lamp's numbers are well above 10,000K, even with the glass UV shield. There's no sense paying any attention to the unshielded numbers because you can't ever operate those lamps without a shield, so I'll just compare the shielded numbers. The BLV lamp puts out only 85% as much PAR as the AB lamp but it has a CCT that is 473 above 10,000K. The AB lamp puts out more PAR because of its lower CCT.

Both lamps lose approximately 20% of their intensity to the glass UV shield. That's more than the 15% that is usually claimed in the various texts. I used the M80 magnetic ballast numbers because my fixture had magnetic ballasts. HEAVY magnetic ballasts!

The moral of this story is 'don't be swayed by PAR alone.' The higher PAR could very well come with a lower CCT.

P.S. -- I hate to state the obvious, but there is no way to discuss your two different lamps in this thread without knowing the wattage, whether they are SE or DE and the ballast you are using. I guess I could search back through hundreds of posts trying to figure that out but I'm getting too old and cranky to do that. So what do you have?

I wanted to look up both lamps on Sanjay's site to see if he tested them. In particular, I wanted to compare the CCT numbers.

[Poseidon]

Gene, I like the new bulbs as well. They are a little blue, but I'll bet they warm up a little in a week or so.

I am thinking of swapping out a white for a blue in my T5 setup just to see what I get with color. The Par values of the 2 bulbs are actually very close, that is a big plus of T5.

[zhenya]

Ninong,

You are right, I forgot to add the most abvious information.
The lamps are SE 250w, powered by the PFO HQI ballast(which is M80?).
I have a LUX meter that I will use to take some readings, however it is not that important. I just want the color to be pleasing to the eye is all.
I'm done growing corals with the speed of light... I want just nice colors and very slow growth, so I don't have to break out bone shears. :eek3:

Mike,

Right now I do not have any of the actinic VHO's on because the metal halides are just too blue. I'll wait to see if the color warms up, as you say, and then make the decision to keep these or not.
I can always go back to megachromes, which I like a lot. I just didn't want to pay the price they are asking for those lamps.

I'm getting cheap...

[Poseidon]

I can't say I blame you Gene. Those megachromes are very pricey. It is funny you mention "bone shears" cause that is on my agenda of things to do today.

[zhenya]

I can't say I blame you Gene. Those megachromes are very pricey. It is funny you mention "bone shears" cause that is on my agenda of things to do today.

Yeah, they are very pricey and they don't last very long either.
I changed those megachromes last year in June sometime for the same meagchromes and now, seven month later, they are done.

[Poseidon]

That is not long enough at all.... I used to replace my XM 10K's every 12 months, in Feb.

[Lucid]

PS. Here you go, Eric. This picture is from 07 when I first started to use megachromes.

Wow, thats a big difference! I like the way you redid the rock and all from those two photos. The shrimp looks pleased.

[zhenya]

Wow, thats a big difference! I like the way you redid the rock and all from those two photos. The shrimp looks pleased.

Yeah, things sure did change from 07, although it is mostly coral and not rockwork. I just noticed how much that tabling coral on the righ side had grown in two years. It was just a small stick then...

Anyway, it is now fifth day since the bulb exchange and although I still don't like these new bulbs all thaat much, I can see some corals coloring up a bit. Mostly blues and purples for now.

Here's some photos on the 5th day taken this morning. I still think it looks too blue for my eyes.



And in this shot I cropped everything off to reduce any distructions that those reflectors may provide.

[Doodaa]

I hate to contradict myself, although I do all the time...But now I think I like the less blue color also. The pics are really hard for me to decide...maybe it's my monitor, but they don't look much different except for brightness. My computer shows a difference in the pic you cropped vs. the one with the reflectors in it. The cropped pic seems to have been lightened up. Anyway, I'm changing my mind and think a more yellower bulb would look better in your tank because you have a lot of blue and purple colors in there already.

Bottom line, I think you have to get opinions from people that have seen it in real life for better results. All computer monitors show colors differently, depending on a lot of things.

[Poseidon]

Yup, I still like the NEW ONES.

[charlie]

I hate to contradict myself, although I do all the time...But now I think I like the less blue color also. The pics are really hard for me to decide...maybe it's my monitor, but they don't look much different except for brightness. My computer shows a difference in the pic you cropped vs. the one with the reflectors in it. The cropped pic seems to have been lightened up. Anyway, I'm changing my mind and think a more yellower bulb would look better in your tank because you have a lot of blue and purple colors in there already.

Bottom line, I think you have to get opinions from people that have seen it in real life for better results. All computer monitors show colors differently, depending on a lot of things.

The last sentence in the first paragraph got me thinking. If he were to have a bright green or a bright red color on either side, do you think that would change the concept? Know what I mean??