Nassarius Snails Compatible?

[Lucid]

I have a deep sand bed with a bunch of hair worms. I was wondering if I had gotten a couple nass. snails, would they harm the hair worms through their movements?

Right now I think my sand bed gets stirred up good with the cerith snails and the occasional bulldozer (mexican turbo) going by. But I would like to add a couple of these guys if possible.

Thanks

[Lucid]

any takers?

[Ninong]

I was wondering if I had gotten a couple nass. snails, would they harm the hair worms through their movements?

No, not at all. They would be an excellent addition.

[TimH07]

i keep reading 2 different things, i know they dont eat algae and that they are carnivores, but i read they eat detritus, is this correct? i read they eat detritus (but they always elaborate with "food waste" but does that include the "dust-ish" looking material that deposits in low flow areas?

[Ninong]

They are obligate carrion feeders. They will eat dead animals and meaty food leftovers but not algal-based detritus.

[TimH07]

thanks ninong, while on that specific, is there anything that does eat vegetarian detritus thats reef safe?

i have a terrible dead zone in the back of the tank that is un-reachable and detritus laden.

[Lucid]

Thanks Ninong, I wanted to make sure before I picked up a couple this week. Btw, I probably have >20 worms from 2 now.

[Ninong]

I haven't given much thought to what might specialize in just algal-based detritus. AFAIK bristleworms, such as Eurythoe complanata, eat detritus, period. A lot of the tiny pods of various kinds eat detritus. Some fish eat detritus, but none that I had.

All of the detritus just sort of disappeared in my tank. I had a 6" DSB loaded with worms and other critters. Detritus just didn't have a chance.

[Ninong]

Thanks Ninong, I wanted to make sure before I picked up a couple this week. Btw, I probably have >20 worms from 2 now.

You could probably use several, not just "a couple." How large is your tank? How deep is your sand bed?

I would think that if your tank is at least 100 gallons with a reasonably deep sand bed, then you could probably use at least five to ten Nassarius vibex. I never did try any of those large Tongan Nassarius snails but they certainly look nice.

Unlike E. complanata, Nassarius snails will not multiply in your tank -- too long of a larval stage. Stomatella varia do multiply in home aquariums.

[Seige]

Unlike E. complanata, Nassarius snails will not multiply in your tank -- too long of a larval stage. Stomatella varia do multiply in home aquariums.

Ninong...

How sure are you that Nassarius snails won't multiply in a tank? I added Nassarius snails about 2 weeks ago and within the last couple days 2 much smaller ones have appeared. I can't confirm they are in fact Nassarius snails yet because they are so small. They appear to be them though because they are the same coloring, have the same little eye stalks, have the same habits and travel about the same speed.

I'm not saying they had the full larval stage in my tank but maybe the larva were carried over from the LFS tank to my tank.

[Seige]

Did some research. It appears Nassarius snails can hatch in a tank. Almost all get eaten before that point though so the birth rate is extremely low unless you can get them in a refugium away from predators. The reports weren't clear on birth/survival rates though.

I figure mine might have a better chance at survival then most because the small predators on my LR that would eat them are very few and my LR has tons of gaps and holes the larger predators can't get into to get at them.

[Ninong]

Ninong...

How sure are you that Nassarius snails won't multiply in a tank?

Very sure.

I added Nassarius snails about 2 weeks ago and within the last couple days 2 much smaller ones have appeared. I can't confirm they are in fact Nassarius snails yet because they are so small. They appear to be them though because they are the same coloring, have the same little eye stalks, have the same habits and travel about the same speed.

They're probably not Nassarius vibex.

I'm not saying they had the full larval stage in my tank but maybe the larva were carried over from the LFS tank to my tank.

Possible, but highly unlikely.

[Ninong]

Did some research. It appears Nassarius snails can hatch in a tank.

They not only can, they do. All the time. It takes only a few days for the egg sac to open, releasing planktonic larvae. If you scrape some of the egg sacs off the glass and put them under a microscope, you can see the developing embryos.

The larvae hatch just a few days after the egg sacs are deposited. Each egg sac has a few embryos. After hatching, the larvae go through a planktonic larval stage lasting a few weeks, not days. The only point worth remembering for our purposes it that the larvae are eaten almost immediately after they hatch, including by their parents. Or they go over the overflow. They don't survive long enough to complete their planktonic larval stage and settle in a home aquarium.

The reports weren't clear on birth/survival rates though.

What reports are you referring to? Do you have a link?

It's certainly possible to breed Nassarius vibex in captivity in specialized larvae culturing tanks but I don't know of anybody actually doing it. You would have to have the adult snails copulate first and then you would have to be able to remove the adult snails from the flask or whatever container you had them in so that they don't eat the larvae as they hatch. After removing the adult snails, you would then remove the swimming larvae as they hatched to specialized rearing tanks.

It's a lot easier to just pick them up by the thousands from the beach.

I figure mine might have a better chance at survival then most because the small predators on my LR that would eat them are very few and my LR has tons of gaps and holes the larger predators can't get into to get at them.

It's really very unlikely that you have baby Nassarius snails in your tank. More likely than not you have baby snails of a species with direct reproduction, like the Columbellids. These snails do somewhat resemble Nassarius snails, especially whey they are small. Their reproduction is somewhat similar in that they reproduce by copulation, followed by deposition of an egg capsule. However, their embryos remain in the egg capsule for 15 to 20 days before hatching as crawl-away tiny juveniles. I received a few of these from IPSF. Gerald incorrectly calls them Strombus maculatus. They aren't strombids at all, which is plainly obvious if you look at their eyes closely enough. Dr. Ron thinks they're Columbellids in the genus Euplica. They're very cute algal grazers and they do reproduce in home aquariums, but not Nassarius. No way, Jose!

[Lucid]

You could probably use several, not just "a couple." How large is your tank? How deep is your sand bed?

I would think that if your tank is at least 100 gallons with a reasonably deep sand bed, then you could probably use at least five to ten Nassarius vibex. I never did try any of those large Tongan Nassarius snails but they certainly look nice.

Unlike E. complanata, Nassarius snails will not multiply in your tank -- too long of a larval stage. Stomatella varia do multiply in home aquariums.

My tank is a standard 75g, and I put in a DSB of 3" after removing the 'live sand' I originally had in there. Got the det.kit from IA, 3 trochus, 2 worms, etc. The stomatellas immediately reproduced within 2 weeks, and I now have easily 200 baby-juvenile snails in my tank. Cute little buggers they are. My sand bed it pretty clean from all the new life. Pods galore too!

EDIT: did the sand removal on 9/10/8 and had the new DSB in the next day, give or take a few days and had the DSB seeded from IA.

[Seige]

The only point worth remembering for our purposes it that the larvae are eaten almost immediately after they hatch, including by their parents. Or they go over the overflow. They don't survive long enough to complete their planktonic larval stage and settle in a home aquarium.

I basically figured that since I'd only seen a couple young ones in 2 days. It could have even been the same one. The sightings were at opposite ends of the tank but those snails are really fast. :eek3:

Maybe the overflow issue is another reason they survived in my tank. I don't have an overflow or skimmer running yet. I really need to work on that. It would seem like I'd have a higher survival rate.

How long is their larval stage? I presume they eat plankton. I've been dosing plankton heavily almost every day to help the coco worm and filter feeding corals so their should be a decent amount for larva to feed on. In fact I have to buy more plankton today, the 2 bottles I had are almost empty.

What reports are you referring to? Do you have a link?

Nothing formal. Just various forum messages that came up on google searches.

It's certainly possible to breed Nassarius vibex in captivity in specialized larvae culturing tanks but I don't know of anybody actually doing it. You would have to have the adult snails copulate first and then you would have to be able to remove the adult snails from the flask or whatever container you had them in so that they don't eat the larvae as they hatch. After removing the adult snails, you would then remove the swimming larvae as they hatched to specialized rearing tanks.

I'll have to try that some time.

It's a lot easier to just pick them up by the thousands from the beach.

lol I got no beach. Maybe if they grew in snow I'd be able to capture them and bring them in my igloo...

It's really very unlikely that you have baby Nassarius snails in your tank. More likely than not you have baby snails of a species with direct reproduction, like the Columbellids. These snails do somewhat resemble Nassarius snails, especially whey they are small. Their reproduction is somewhat similar in that they reproduce by copulation, followed by deposition of an egg capsule. However, their embryos remain in the egg capsule for 15 to 20 days before hatching as crawl-away tiny juveniles. I received a few of these from IPSF. Gerald incorrectly calls them Strombus maculatus. They aren't strombids at all, which is plainly obvious if you look at their eyes closely enough. Dr. Ron thinks they're Columbellids in the genus Euplica. They're very cute algal grazers and they do reproduce in home aquariums, but not Nassarius. No way, Jose!

Hmmm. ok. Unless I get a lot I won't be able to prove otherwise so your likely right.

[Ninong]

How long is their larval stage?

I believe it's a couple of weeks.

Nothing formal. Just various forum messages that came up on google searches.

Next time you search for info on Nassarius snails, add + Shimek to your search criteria. He used to teach courses on breeding these snails.

I usually limit my searches for hard evidence to Google's scholar search feature. When reading anything on the bulletin boards, it's critical that you be able to separate the stuff that is pure speculation from good information. And whenever you see a so-called "expert" recommending something, ask yourself if that "expert" is selling the stuff he recommends as absolutely necessary.

lol I got no beach. Maybe if they grew in snow I'd be able to capture them and bring them in my igloo...

The very similar Ilyanassa obsoleta (formerly called Nassarius obsoletus, reclassified in the 1970's) ranges from Northern Florida to Nova Scotia. Its range and that of Nassarius vibex overlap along the U.S. coast from the Carolinas to Florida. This results in some enterprising entrepreneurs collecting I. obsoleta snails and selling them online misidentified as Nassarius snails. They're not good for reef tanks for a number of reasons. I. obsoleta also ranges from just south of Monterey Bay to B. C. on the West coast. They were introduced into San Francisco Bay about 100 years ago and spread from there.

Hmmm. ok. Unless I get a lot I won't be able to prove otherwise so your likely right.

You may have hitchhikers that came in on your live rock that you didn't notice before. They may have been baby snails of some sort or maybe they're fully grown snails that don't get any larger than they are now.

[Lucid]

Here's a couple of pics of my hair worms. One in January, and the second tonight (doing the nasty).

[Seige]

You may have hitchhikers that came in on your live rock that you didn't notice before. They may have been baby snails of some sort or maybe they're fully grown snails that don't get any larger than they are now.

My rocks been pretty lifeless even at night so it's not too likely but possible. So far I've see 3 different worms and 1 solitary copepod on the rock in quite a few hours of watching with a red light. Including after night feedings.

My baby snail population is around 15 now that I've seen out at one time. All smaller then anything I've bought. Most around 2mm but the largest around 5mm. I believe they are 3 types. One doesn't appear to have a shell, one with a cerith style shell and one with a nassarius style shell. Still to small to identify species accurately.

I know, they aren't likely to be Nass's. Haven't read that article you linked yet but I will. Busy week here.