copperband butterfly

[wrasseking]

I am setting up a 120 reef tank ,and try to find out what I should put in it as far as fish. I'm going to put sps,zoanthids,leathers, and lps in it. and i've heard that copperband butterfly will nip at lps and zoanthids, but i've actully seen them in tanks at fish store than have lps in them. what do you other reef tank owners think.

[Ninong]

Hi wrasseking,




The copperbanded butterflyfish (Chelmon rostratus) is relatively reef-aquarium safe. Obviously it will demolish any feather dusters in the tank within days if not hours, so be prepared for that. On the good side, it will eventually eat any Aiptasia that you may have in your tank.

Whether, and to what extent, it will bother anything else in your tank is anybody's guess. Some are more troublesome than others. Also, some of the ones that are well behaved for years can suddenly go after something that you paid good money for.

There is a certain element of risk involved but I would say that it is a risk worth taking. I would get one but that's only because I like them.



P.S. -- I'm sure you probably already know that these fish can be difficult to adapt to captivity. You might want to see the fish eating something other than live food at the store before you decide to buy it. And don't buy one that doesn't look the picture of health.

[wrasseking]

thanks that info seem to follow the info i've recieve from a local fish store that I deffidently trust them ,but I just wanted to see what other people are saying. also i planing to put wrasse,clowns,hawkfish,gobies,blennies,dwarf angels and tangs. and i've heard that butterfly and tangs can fight what do you think about the butterfly and tang mixing.

[Ninong]

First of all, I wouldn't put any tang in a 120-gal tank. It's too small. If you insist on putting a tang in that size tank, then one yellow tang would be a reasonable choice. Personally, I think a 135-gal tank is a better minimum size for any of the tangs. And, obviously, some of them require tanks that are at least 300 gallons, or more.

As far as the dwarf angels (Centropyge spp.) are concerned, I would put only one in a 120-gal tank unless you get a mated pair or are willing to start with two juveniles and let them work things out as far as which one gets to be the male.

[wrasseking]

By no mean am i sold on the angels or putting all of the fish i mentioned together. so you wouldn't advise putting a purple tang in a 120 gal.

and what about mixing tangs and copperband butterfly.

[Ninong]

I don't recommend putting any tangs, including a yellow tang, in a 120-gal tank. What I said was that if someone was going to go ahead and put a tang in a 120-tank, then a yellow tang would probably be as good a choice as any. I never did put any tangs in my 120-gal tank. I did put a juvenile foxface rabbitfish (Siganus vulpinus) in my tank but it grew to be 7" long within two years and the 120-gal tank was definitely too small for it. It's now in somebody else's 300-gal tank.

I don't see any problem with keeping a copperbanded butterflyfish with tangs in a 180-gal tank but it might be best not to combine them in a 120-gal tank. I was conflicted about whether a copperbanded butterflyfish fish would be okay for my 120-gal tank. I think it would have been marginal. I never did try one mainly because I never could find one that would eat non-live food at the LFS. I didn't want to go through the hassle of trying to teach one to eat commercial foods in captivity. It can be done but it's still risky.

If you're going to put one of those fish in your 120-gal tank, then I would rank them in the following order: copperbanded butterflyfish, yellow tang, purple tang. Choose one of the above, if you must.

[wrasseking]

I greatlly apriciate the time you have tanken to help me both on info about the copperband ,and recommendation you have given me on the tangs. i will diffently cosider them ,and likely will go with your recommendtion on not putting tang in my tank.
conserning the copperband wich i deffently want. i just love the way it looks. i have 9 gal nano that i've had up and going for 8 months. and have one black ocellaris and one orange ocellaris wich i have had the pleasure of raising the from babies(or fry). black named sharkbate being 3/4 inch. and orange named lighting being an inch if that. when i have the 120 going and cycled can i put them in with copperband and wrasses should I wait for them to get bigger, and should i give them a annemone to protect them.

[Ninong]

Yes, you can put the two Ocellaris clownfish in the 120-gal tank. I would wait at least three weeks after it has finished cycling, however long that takes. Don't rush things. They will be fine as long as you don't put any predator fish in that tank. They don't have to have an anemone to do well. However, if you do decide to get an anemone for them, I would suggest an Entacmaea quadricolor (bubble-tip anemone). They're not a natural host for this species but they're usually accepted as a surrogate host in captivity.

As far as the copperbanded butterflyfish is concerned, wait at least three or four months for the tank to mature a little before adding it. Try to find one that is at least 2" long but no longer than 3". Ask the shop to feed it for you. And live brine doesn't count. If you purchase one that isn't eating, be prepared to train it to eat in captivity. There are some tricks that will usually work to get them eating in captivity.

What wrasses are you considering for this 120-gal tank?

[wrasseking]

yea I already have the 9 gal completly cycled it been set up for 6 months and i have the the black ocellaris clown and orange ocellaris clown in it and the 9 is completely full as far as coral goes. The orange is almost an inch and the black is just barely 3/4 an inch if that. and i've had the orange one for 4 months and the black a little less then the orange.
The reason im getting the 120 up and going is because i just love this hobby so much and i've ran out of room in the 9 gal. Any way my question is when ive got that 120 cycled and so on. and i'm stocking it with the copperband, a few wrasses, a yellow fang blenny,and probably a twin spot goby should i wait until the clown get to a certain size before putting them in the 120 with the outher fish i've listed above
as far as the wrasse go i'm planning on a Mccosker wrasse (Paracheilinus mccoskeri), a yellow coris wrasse(Halichoeres chrysus) and I'm hopping if I can get one a hawiian flame wrasse(Cirrhilabrus jordani) Unless I find that they dont get along with each other.

[wrasseking]

also is there a process that I should go in when adding them to the tank. like should i add the clowns first or the wrasses or what ever.

[Ninong]

You should add the two Ocellaris clowns that you already have first. You could add those two or three weeks after the 120-gal tank has finished the initial cycle. I would not add an anemone that soon. If you're going to add an anemone, wait at least another three months and I think a BTA (Entacmaea quadricolor) would probably be the best choice. In the meantime, you could stick a frilly mushroom or something like that in there to act as a surrogate host for them.

Wait a few weeks after adding the two clownfish before adding the twin spot goby (Signigobius biocellatus).

The McCosker's flasher wrasse (Parcheilinus mccoskeri) and the Hawaiian flame fairy wrasse (Cirrhilabrus jordani) should be fine together in a 120-gal tank. You might add the flasher wrasse first and then the fairy wrasse a few weeks later. Be aware that both of these fish are jumpers. Extreme jumpers! The entire top of your tank must be jumper-proof before adding these guys or you will be wasting your money. And the Jordani is fairly expensive.

By the way, there are a lot of other fairy wrasses that are well under $100. All of the flasher wrasses and all of the fairy wrasses are gorgeous. Just don't go into it without knowing in advance that they will jump, often and HIGH! Even after they settle down, they will still jump from time to time. My fairy wrasses never stopped jumping, they just did it less frequently as time went by.

The Yellow Coris Wrasse (Halichoeres chrysus) could be added next. I would get a fairly small one. BTW, it's not really a Coris wrasse at all. I have no idea why they call it that.

I would wait at least six months before adding the copperbanded butterflyfish (Chelmon rostratus). Try to find a healthy one between 2"-3" that has been at the store for at least two or three weeks (if possible) and make sure that they feed it in front of you. You want to see it eating something other than live food.

I would pass on the yellow fang blenny (Meiacanthus oualanensis) if I were you. What about a Yellow Assessor (Assessor flavissimus) instead?

Good luck!

[wrasseking]

Is there a reason i should pass on the yellow fang blenny? or is it not a personal favorite.

[Ninong]

Did you follow the link?

If you do decide to get one, I wouldn't hand feed it if I were you.



P.S. -- Just in case you weren't aware, all of the blennies in the genus Meiacanthus have venom-gland bearing enlarged canines. That's why they're called fang blennies.

[wrasseking]

that not the same blenny that I was thinken of. the one o was thinken of is(Meiacanthus grammistes). which i think marinecenter.com is calling it a stipped blenny. but i've seen it called yellow striped blenny at a local fish store.

[Ninong]

That one will have venomous fangs, too. ALL of the blennies in that genus have venomous fangs.

[wrasseking]

Obiously you shouldn't attemp to try touch it. And I was aware of it being venomouse, is the venomouse part going to be a hazzerd to the reef. i've heard its generally peaceful to other fish that aren't the same species or genius. Is that true in your exsperience. and the venom is ingected from bites right.

also I've heard that the venom feels like being stung by a bee. do you know if thats true. and that it most likely wont kill you.

[Ninong]

I have never kept them. They are reported to be peaceful fish but if they do feel threatened in any way, they have the ability to rip into the other fish with they venomous fangs.

They are not likely to bite your hand unless you try to remove them from a net by hand. Their bite is reported to be similar to a bee sting and not nearly as painful as a lionfish sting.

[Ninong]

Since I have never kept any fang blennies, I really can't tell you which fish might be poor candidates as potential roommates. Might not be a good idea to put any dottybacks in the same tank with one of these guys.

[wrasseking]

alright I'll defidintly have to continue to do my reseach about the fang blenny and the copperband. I greatly apreciate your tanking the time to chat ,and to help me to plan out my new tank. I wish you the best with your tanks. thank you.

[Ninong]

that not the same blenny that I was thinken of. the one o was thinken of is(Meiacanthus grammistes). which i think marinecenter.com is calling it a stipped blenny. but i've seen it called yellow striped blenny at a local fish store.

The species that I was thinking of when I warned you against keeping any fang-blennies at all was Aspidontus taeniatus, the blue-striped fang-blenny, which looks exactly like the blue-striped cleaner wrasse, Labroides dimidiatus.

According to Bob Fenner, it's the fang-blennies in the Aspidontus and Plagiotremus genera that must be avoided. Apparently the one you are thinking of getting, the striped poison fang-blenny (Meiacanthus grammistes), is considered to be reef-aquarium safe.