Another Brass Mistake

[chrisalamo]

I guess I didn't do enough research when setting up my 65 gallon tank.

I had it set up and circulating for about 10 days with the brass fitting, killed my snails.

When I tested for Copper using the Sailfert kit, I couldn't tell there was any copper until I compared the results next to fresh water and saw a very slight hint of blue.

I broke everything down, removed the live rock and sand and not sure if I will be safe with my tank or not. Thus far, I have rinsed it a few times with DI water, but it has the overflow so I do not think Muratic Acid is something that I can use safely.

So far I have been testing the tank and show no signs of copper, what should I do next?

[Ninong]

Hi chrisalamo,




Did you already read this thread?

If not, then read that thread first. Since then, I have sort of changed my mind a little about what you can get away with doing. In particular, I think most people can get away without having to undergo the extreme -- and extremely dangerous -- decontamination process recommended by Dr. Ron Shimek that I linked.

Here is what I think you should do:

You should abandon all hope of ever using the live rock or sand again. It is not safe for use in a reef aquarium and won't be safe for use in a reef aquarium. Copper forms an extremely strong bond with calcium carbonate (live rock) and can only be released by low pH (meaning acid), which, of course, destroys the live rock.

It would be extremely risky to use that live rock in a reef aquarium but it may be safe for use in a fish-only aquarium because fish can tolerate much higher levels of copper than invertebrates. Copper is toxic to some snails in the low ppb (parts per billion) range.

The tank should be scrubbed with vinegar in water. I haven't tried this myself because I have never had a need to but I think you might want to use at least two cups of vinegar per gallon of water. Just add four gallons of water to the tank and then pour in half a gallon of vinegar (plain white vinegar). Use a sponge or soft bristle brush to scrub the tank thoroughly being careful not to mess up the edges of the silicone in the corners. Definitely use gloves when doing this. This assumes you're doing this outside. If not and you want to use less vinegar/water solution, then go ahead. Just use a bucket with a couple gallons of water and a quart of vinegar. Use a strong sponge (or similar) to scrub the tank's walls over and over again.

Rinse the tank thoroughly several times.

All of the equipment should be rinsed with a strong vinegar/water solution and then rinsed several times.

After setting up the tank again, run GAC (carbon) and a poly filter (Poly-Bio-Marine) for a few days before attempting to add any new sand or live rock. That's just being super cautious. You don't want to have any copper left in the tank that might mess up your new live rock or sand.

Test for copper. It should be undetectable. If so, remove a lot of your water (I'm assuming your using saltwater) to a separate Rubbermaid Brute container(s) and then add your new sand and live rock.

Good luck!



P.S. -- Be very careful about what advice you get on this topic. Some people don't think that a little copper is capable of killing inverts. You already know better from personal experience.

[chrisalamo]

Hi Ninong,

Thank you for the reply and advice. I am glad there is another solution to cleanse my tank.

Just out of curiousity what is your take on Cuprisorb?

Chris

[Ninong]

Just out of curiousity what is your take on Cuprisorb?

Here is what Seahem has to say about it.

I would place that in the same category with GAC or poly filters in that it would remove copper from water. I don't know of anything that will break the bond between adsorbed copper on calcium carbonate surfaces or glass surfaces other than low pH. It will be very gradually released over time from such surfaces.

The reason you scrub the glass tank walls with a strong vinegar solution is because vinegar is a weak acid and the low pH releases the copper that is adsorbed to the glass.

[chrisalamo]

Thank you Ninong,

Do you know of any testing sources that I can actually find a reading for the amount of contamination. I have tried Red Sea, Seachem and Salifert, with all test coming up at near zero from day 1. The salifert was the only one that I even saw a slight change in water color and therefore assumed that I had about .01-.03 ppm. Still unsafe for snails.

Thank you again!

[Ninong]

I think what I would do is simply clean the tank (and all equipment) very thoroughly and then assume that everything will be okay. That's a decision you will have to make.

I would definitely start over with new live rock and sand.

Here is another option for you to consider when re-starting the tank. Add the new saltwater and make sure that it is the correct salinity and pH, etc. Then start up the tank. Then do a careful slow-drip acclimation on three or four snails of the same species that died on you. Add them to the bare tank (no live rock and no sand). Observe them in the tank for four or five days. You may even feed them to keep them happy. If they still look okay after four or five days, then I would go ahead with the new sand and live rock.

How cautious you decide to be is up to you. It's a matter of how much patience you have for all of this stuff and how much risk you're willing to take. I think if you're careful to clean the tank and equipment well and you start over with new water, new live rock and new sand, all will be well. Also, run GAC (carbon) and a poly filter from the very first day you start the tank.

Good luck!



P.S. -- As far as copper test kits go, I have used Salifert's but I'm not sure how good it is.

[chrisalamo]

Thank you again!

I like your idea about the snails.

One more thing, do you think it is possible to do a Vinegar solution dip on the live rock to help remove some of the copper?

[Ninong]

One more thing, do you think it is possible to do a Vinegar solution dip on the live rock to help remove some of the copper?

Obviously that would kill all of the life inside the live rock. I hate to offer advice on this.

It is probably possible to remove the copper from the live rock with a lengthy bath in a vinegar solution but I'm not sure how to go about that. Then you would have to do several baths in R.O./D.I. water.

What you would be doing is trying to turn the rock into lifeless base rock. If you were successful, it could be used again and would gradually (over a period of 12-18 months) repopulate itself with beneficial lifeforms. People who use lifeless rock in a reef aquarium mix it with good live rock so that the beneficial lifeforms transfer to the dead rock over time.

I really hate to offer advice on how to reuse live rock that has been exposed to copper in a reef aquarium with snails and other sensitive inverts. The standard advice is to discard it or sell it to someone for a fish-only aquarium.

[kronos5]

Copper is nasty