How do you pick rock/corals/Anemones?

[MCKP]

I have not got my tank yet... We would like to get a 240/250gallon but have to wait until next year, so I am just doing as much research as possible....

I want a very beautiful tank. I have got a good list of fish already and have started looking at Corals(hard and soft) and made my first 'draft' list of the ones I like the looks of.... now I need to know how to pick what is compatible with each other, as well as the fish I have chosen. Do I look at water requirements, original location, etc?? I don't know which would go with each other....

I am not really 'stuck' on any of these, it is just a list of ones I like the look of... oddly enough, the fish were fairly easy to find out if they worked... But I have never had live plants before....

Also, how do you pick live rock? Is it just what you like? Or does it depend on what corals you want to add..... or fish??

I have a 75 freshwater tank with Lake Malawi African Cichlids... to me they are pretty easy because it is "they came from here... this is what they like and who they don't like, and this is how they live.... Copy this and they will be happy" And mine are very happy... but their info was really easy to find.

So, here is the first list..... tell me how horrible I picked! LOL (Also, I am not worrying about price right now.... I will cross that bridge when I get there!)

Rose Anemone
Tomato Anemone
A. lovelli
Green open brain
Ultra Blue Crocea
Australian Metallic Torch Coral
Show Acan Hillae
Fluorescent Green Carpet Anemone
Ritteri (both purple and red based)
Purple tube anemone
Black Sun Polyps
Orange Plate Coral
Blue Mushrooms
Flame Mushrooms
Fiji Zoanthids
Orange Gorgonian
Red Gorgonian
Purple Gorgonian
Colt coral
Crown of thorns
Fiji yellow leather coral
Green finger leather coral
Orange tree sponge
Red tree sponge
Red fine grape algae
Hydnophora
Pink Seriatopora
Purple Acropora
Hawaiian Feather Duster
Red Coco Worm

[MCKP]

Wow, sorry for such a long post! Got carried away.... soooo many questions! LOL

Here is the list of fish I have chosen(any other ideas are welcome on them too!)

Blue Tang
Yellow Tang
Heniochus diphreutes Butterflyfish
Ocellaris Clownfish Pair
Red Fire Cleaner Shrimp
Spiny Star Astraea
(3 stripe) Humbug Damselfish
Marble Seastar
Mandarin Dragonet

Royal Gramma
Scarlet Reef Hermit Crab

[charlie]

You have to be careful mixing soft corals and hard corals, there will be alot of chemical warfare going on that you don't know about. I would suggest looking into doing a bunch of reading, Eric Bornemans "Aqaurium Corals" is an excellent start!!!
Why don't you print out both of the lists you have made, and when you head into Spokane to visit the 2 stores, take the list in with you and ask them. Not that I don't want to help, but if you are anything like I am, it is nice to hear and see, know what I mean???
I know that didn't help much, but it is what I would do. Both of those folks you are gonna visit are very knowledgeable and helpful.

[MCKP]

I will look into that book.... I had already planned on taking my list to the stores... I am pretty excited to go tomorrow! I have been to Aquarium Solutions but my husband hasn't, I think he will like it and I am anxious to go to the other store too.... I had never even heard of it.

I was just hoping to get some other advice from others who are not going to be trying to sell me something

Any help on the rock question since that is kind of one of my first steps?

[charlie]

Darn, the hand off didn't work.

Let me grab a smoke and sit back and look at the lists and I will get back here, I promise.

[MCKP]

haha.... I am new to reef tanks... not new to forums! lol

Thanks for your help....

P.S. Smoking is bad for you!

[charlie]

Hey Mom, I know about the smoking part...............if I had said grab a beer what would you have said then???

Seriously, if you would wait until Saturday, I could meet you at either store, I am headed over there to pick some stuff up and drop some frags off. I will be back in a while, I have some listing to take care of.

[MCKP]

LOL, I would have said grab me a drink too.....

I am not sure if I will be in Spokane on Saturday..... we live about 40 miles away. I MIGHT have to go up there and meet a client but not sure yet.... depends on if I get all my work done(instead of playing on here)....

[charlie]

How in the heck am I supposed to get thru this list stuff if you keep bugging me.........................

Get to work so we can meet up Saturday!!!!! Gonna have to be early too, I have to come back to Montana the same day.

[charlie]

Okey Dokey, I have collected my thoughts..... and triscuits and squeeze cheese and I am ready to provide you with some random thoughts on your choices. Mind you, this is based on mostly my opinions, so beware, OK.

Leave the macro algae for the refugium, it does a great job with nitrates, but in the display, it has the possibility of taking over if nothing eats it.

Anemones: Stay away from them until your tank has matured, give it at least 8-12 months. That way you will have developed a routine to know what you are looking for as far as your systems health goes. That being said, carpet anemones have the possibility of getting extremely large, and they tend to eat unsuspecting fish. I have found that the bubble tip anems are the hardiest of the bunch, but if they start multiplying, you could be in for a long day. Do a search on them here, and you may run into this pic:



I would try to go with either hard corals or soft corals, and try to make this decision before you start the tank. This way you will have hopefully done your research and at least have somewhat of a clue as to what you are getting into. I have seen too many people just jump in, and try to grab everything that is "pretty", and pretty much end up with a giant mess on their hands when they figure out that most hard corals won't tolerate the toxins that softies give off. Look thru a bunch of peoples galleries on this site and try to get your plans pointed in one direction or the other, OK?

Mushrooms and Zooanthids are beautiful, but they have a way of taking over a tank, unless they are isolated in the tank, and that is hard to accomplish sometimes. It can be done though, so don't let me talk you out of that!!!!

I don't have alot of experience with seastars, so maybe someone else can chip in here. I do know that you probably shouldn't add one to a brand new tank though.

Gorgonians and sponges are probably better off left in the ocean, their survival rate is not real good in our home glass boxes.

Your fish list has only a couple of things I would question. Leave the Damsels out of the mix, they are very territorial, and downright rude, I learned the hard way!!!!
Mandarins should only go into a well established aquarium that will have a constant supply of pods that these little guys can graze on constantly. Any competition from other pod eaters puts them in danger. They aren't real quick to respond to the dinner bell, so are beaten to the punch most of the time. If you can get them to eat something like mysis or brine, that is a plus, but they still need their pods!!!!

Well, that was 2 pages of notes, and you probably had 2 drinks reading this, I almost had 2 writing it. Hope this helps out though.

[MCKP]

Thanks.... didn't have them but a couple drinks do sound good....lol

I knew the Mandarin and the Starfish would be later added occupants.... I have heard so many people say leave the Damsel out..... guess I am going to have to nix that off my list.

OMG!! That picture... I couldn't imagine that much... Was that done on purpose or was that an actual take over??

Can you do Hard coral and Anemones?? I want the clown fish pair but know they need the anemone...
But I like the soft corals too....
why can't they just get along?!?! hummph......(yes I am having an internet tantrum.... I am allowed ) I can't decide!!

This is going to take more studying....

Can most soft corals go with other soft corals?..... and the same with hard corals.... can they go with other hard corals?? Or is it species limited again? Does the fish I have picked have a preference in coral??

Why are there so many questions?? (You can see why I am starting my learning almost a year in advance)

[charlie]

Thanks.... didn't have them but a couple drinks do sound good....lol

Start making them, you'll need them to get thru all the reading!!!!

OMG!! That picture... I couldn't imagine that much... Was that done on purpose or was that an actual take over??

Wasn't intended that way, it just kind of happened. That was zhenya's rose bubble tank. I guess I should have asked if I could borrow his pic

Can you do Hard coral and Anemones?? I want the clown fish pair but know they need the anemone...
But I like the soft corals too....
why can't they just get along?!?! hummph......(yes I am having an internet tantrum.... I am allowed ) I can't decide!!

The anemones tend to wander around before they finally find their little happy spot. When they wander, they will sting anything in their path, hard coral, soft coral, you get the idea. If you look thru different galleries, you can see where it is being accomplished, but I bet there were some heartaches throughout the process.

This is going to take more studying....

I know more about chemistry now than I did when I was in high school, and I can hardly remember those years.

Can most soft corals go with other soft corals?..... and the same with hard corals.... can they go with other hard corals?? Or is it species limited again? Does the fish I have picked have a preference in coral??

From what I have found, yes. there will be your little disagreements, but moving something is always an option. The fish you have chosen don't normally pick at coral. The more you research your choices, you will find out what may work, and what definitely won't. Scott Michael has a couple of good books on fish for reef tanks, you might want to look into them also. A good library was a BIG help to me. I still go back and find things that I need.

Why are there so many questions?? (You can see why I am starting my learning almost a year in advance)

Because it is part of the fun. You are in for alot of learning, enjoyment, heartbreak, but it is all part of this hobby. You have to learn to take the good with the bad, and it is all really interesting.

You are going in the right direction, asking questions and researching before jumping in is more than 80% of the folks that get into this do, or ever did!!!!! I was one of those 80%, so we all have made our mistakes. Keep on keeping on

[Parrothead]

AMEN Reverend Chalie, AMEN


Tanks,
Robert

[MCKP]

Wow Charlie, lots of useful information.... thanks for taking the time to write all that.

We went to both shops yesterday and was sadly disappointed. Aquatic Dreams tanks looked very dirty and not well maintained, and some of the fish just didn't seem to be thriving very well. We did not talk to the guy there because he was on the phone and really we were just stopping to look.

We then went to Aquarium Solutions(I have been there before and have bought African Cichlids there) but I hadn't looked at her saltwater stock when I was in before.... anyway, hers were in better shape but still not something either of us were really impressed with. I think she does alot better with her Freshwater tanks... We didn't talk to her either but mainly because my youngest daughter(2) was freaking out and wanted to go to the park

So, now we are going to start looking for other stores... either in N. Idaho, or even on the coast here...

Here is a question.... We were talking last night about where to put the tank we wanted(which was a 240 long) BUT none of the places I want to put it can fit a 8 ft tank... SO, what would be my better option... a 240w(72x30x24) or a 180L (72x25x24).... pretty sure those are the measurements.....L/D/H

Does the extra 5 inches taller make any difference at all(besides just being more water) is it 'worth' the extra price?? I would REALLY love to do the 8ft but right now we can't figure where it would fit.... but we may still do it... but if not, I need to know what a better option would be with a 6 ft tank(so if there is a better option for a 6ft tank than what I asked about.... let me know!)

[metalhead]

You can go ahead and scratch crown of thorns off your list if you want to have any coral at all. I doubt that you could even find one but even if you did it would consume any and all of your coral with a quickness... In fact, I think that's all they eat so theoretically you would have to feed it a coral diet constantly if you wanted to keep one... Yikes!

Otherwise I'd say that you're very fortunate to live close to Charlie. Listen to what he tells you and everything will be just fine.

[metalhead]

Here is a question.... We were talking last night about where to put the tank we wanted(which was a 240 long) BUT none of the places I want to put it can fit a 8 ft tank... SO, what would be my better option... a 240w(72x30x24) or a 180L (72x25x24).... pretty sure those are the measurements.....L/D/H

Does the extra 5 inches taller make any difference at all(besides just being more water) is it 'worth' the extra price?? I would REALLY love to do the 8ft but right now we can't figure where it would fit.... but we may still do it... but if not, I need to know what a better option would be with a 6 ft tank(so if there is a better option for a 6ft tank than what I asked about.... let me know!)

I'd go with the shallower of the two tanks if I were you. This will maximize the effectiveness of your lighting and make maintenance tasks that much easier.

[charlie]

Metalhead is right on about the lights. If you have a deep sand bed that would help with a 30" deep tank. It would be my thinking that you would have to go 400w halides with a tank that deep, T5 just won't give you the depth you would need. Keep looking around for tanks tho, have you ever thought about something like a cube? What would be the maximum depth, (not height) that you could go with? Are you thinking glass or acrylic?

[MCKP]

Thanks guys....

Not sure on glass or acrylic, have only had glass before. The cube is a great idea if I had room... problem is I am wanting to build it into a wall, with the back side towards my office and the main front display in the living room..... at least that is the current plan.... Let me ask what the biggest width is that we could go.... Height isn't really an issue...give me a minute on that answer...

The other option is my husband will build a tank stand and hood to match whatever we decide to make this house look like....

I didn't think about the lighting... good point there...

Is the 24" too deep? Or standard? Do they make them less shallow? Would you want to go less shallow?

And based on multiple people telling me the Crown of Thorns coral, is off my list! (BTW, You are one of the only people who figured out it was not a starfish....)

[charlie]

If you have only had glass, stay with glass!!!! JMHO

The max I would go is 8 feet. My 300 is 8'x 30"x24" and I still have trouble reaching the bottom!!!

I like 24" for height, like we said, if you are thinking about T5 lighting, that is ideal!!!

[MCKP]

Okay, talked to husband and kind of agreed that 30" is the max for width..... and we are thinking acrylic but need to know the pros and cons of both glass and acrylic...