Detritivores

[Seige]

Anything special I should do to light, feed or care for Detritivores so they thrive. They are in their own tank in 3 pounds of sand until they multiply and can be propagated to the main tank.

I'm guessing nothing special but really have no idea. Nobody here knows either since Detritivores are rarely found in Canadian tanks...

[Ninong]

Detritivores means anything that consumes detritus. That covers an extremely broad range of different animals. You are going to have to be a lot more specific than that.

You need to name one animal and ask about its requirements. Then another one. I have no idea what you're asking about.

[Seige]

ok the Detritivore kit from Inland Aquatics. Not sure exactly what survived transport but what I do know is...

Spaghetti Worms, Mysis Shrimp, Gammarus Shrimp, Amphipods, Copepods, Bristle Worms, Brittle Stars.

Could be other stuff of unknown types... Ordered 3 pounds of sand with it. Came from various tank sources on their end.

Wasn't thrilled by their service. Sent several emails asking for acclimation and care instructions which they said they would provide but never did. They also messed up the shipping instructions so I almost cancelled the order.

[Ninong]

ok the Detritivore kit from Inland Aquatics. Not sure exactly what survived transport but what I do know is...

Spaghetti Worms...

These will immediately bury themselves into the top layer of the sand bed with just their buccal tentacles above the sand. They trap particulate matter, detritus, etc., that happens to float by their station. They multiply easily in home aquariums. You may not notice more for months but a year from now you will realize that you have at least three or four times as many as you ordered. Within two years they will be all over the place. Very nice addition.

, Mysis Shrimp...

Live food for the other inhabitants in your aquarium unless you set up a separate refugium and somehow manage to get them to survive and reproduce.

Gammarus Shrimp, Amphipods...

Should hide away in the live rock and the sand bed and multiply. That's assuming they aren't eaten by other inhabitants before they can reproduce. They eat copepods and other microcrustaceans.

Copepods...

They will hide away in the tiny holes in the live rock and try to avoid being eaten. They eat mainly phytoplankton. They will reproduce tremendously given a chance. Just check your tank an hour or two after dark. Use a red flashlight if possible. You can use a white flashlight provided you look fast because they will scurry away as soon as the light hits them.

Bristle Worms...

Eurythoe complanata. Good scavengers. They will multiply and you will have three or four times as many three months from now and zillions of them a year from now. Their numbers depend on the amount of available food. They can get up to 6" or so if they aren't eaten first. Dottybacks from the Red Sea definitely eat them.

Brittle Stars

Excellent tiny scavengers. They will hide under the live rock and you will never see them again except on rare occasions. They multiply easily.

Ordered 3 pounds of sand with it. Came from various tank sources on their end.

Excellent idea!!!

Sent several emails asking for acclimation and care instructions...

That's on their website. Basically what they say is to float the bags to equalize temperature and then empty the bags into the aquarium but ONLY after dark if you have fish in your tank. Otherwise you will be providing a very expensive snack for your fish. When I ordered my detritivore kit I didn't have any fish in my tank to worry about.

You should add a small amount of food (both carnivore food and herbivore food) to make sure your worms, etc., get something to eat. Not much, just a tiny amount every day or every other day. I used small carnivore sinking pellets and some of those freshwater sinking algae discs (about the size of a dime) that I broke up into small pieces. I fed maybe one broken up algae disc and maybe six or seven carnivore pellets per day. Remember, I didn't have any fish at the time so I wasn't feeding fish in the tank.

I guess it was right about that time that I ordered some D.T.'s live phytoplankton. I added about a tablespoon of that three times a week. I love that stuff. It can be very expensive to ship if your LFS doesn't stock it. It must be kept refrigerated.

[Seige]

Ninong, thanks for all that info...

No fish in this tank so the acclimation should be fine. I keep the light off most of the day and night is that ok?

Spaghetti Worms. Ordered 3 hoping 2 would survive. Don't know if any survived since I had no idea what was in each bag. Since they bury themselves in the sand I should get more sand. Right now the 20g tank just has the 3 pounds I ordered from IA.

Mysis Shrimp. Is their any way to tell if any are alive? Maybe need to get a microscope.

Grammarus Shrimp, Amphipods. No live rock to hide in since tank is empty. I'll add some though. I think I saw only one in the bag. It was about 3mm long. Not even sure it's a grammarus or amphipod.

Copepods. I'll start growing phytoplankton again. First try worked ok but I got noise complaints due to the air pump. I added Copepods to my main tank a while ago and they were on the surface in their earlier growth stage for months. Don't see any now though.

Bristle Worms/Eurythoe complanata. Already have massive numbers growing in the main tank. Glad you mentioned zillions. I was wondering about so many appearing.

Brittle Stars. Since they hide I must have mini stars too. About 3 are on the glass. 4, 5, and 6 armed stars. They are about 2-3mm in size.

Excellent idea!!!

Of course... It was your idea...

Thanks for info on food. I was adding an algae disk every few days and added a tiny bit of meat once. I'll add some plankton and a lil more carnivore food more often.

I guess it was right about that time that I ordered some D.T.'s live phytoplankton. I added about a tablespoon of that three times a week. I love that stuff. It can be very expensive to ship if your LFS doesn't stock it. It must be kept refrigerated.

What's D.T.'s? Any idea if they'll ship to Canada?


How long should I wait before I can propogate detritivores to the main tank?

[Ninong]

Are you saying you added that stuff to a tank with no live rock and no sand bed???

If so, I can't imagine doing something like that. I don't know what to tell you if that's what happened.

I really don't understand what's going on here because you're talking about a 20-gal tank with nothing in it and a main tank. Exactly where did all of the detritivore kit critters and the live sand go? I hope they didn't go into the 20-gal tank?????

I doubt seriously that D.T.'s ships to Canada. In the U.S., you have to order D.T.'s from an LFS or an online source, such as Premium Aquatics. I have no idea if Inland Aquatics has anything similar. To tell you the truth, I didn't even know that Inland Aquatics would ship a live detritivore kit to Canada.

I just checked J&L Aquatics and they do carry another brand of phytoplankton.

[Seige]

Are you saying you added that stuff to a tank with no live rock and no sand bed???

If so, I can't imagine doing something like that. I don't know what to tell you if that's what happened.

I really don't understand what's going on here because you're talking about a 20-gal tank with nothing in it and a main tank. Exactly where did all of the detritivore kit critters and the live sand go? I hope they didn't go into the 20-gal tank?????

Ya they were added to the smaller 20g tank. It has contained saltwater fish before, has a filter and initially cycled about 5 months ago. It's mainly been used to hold prepared saltwater for partial changes on the main tank. Oh, the filters off since they were added. I didn't want it to filter out the shrimp.

No rock in it. I'll add some.

Initially no sand but I did add the 3 pounds of live sand that was shipped up so their is sand in the tank. Most of it's piled near one end and I've seen worms and some form of slug crawling in it. I'll add more sand tomorrow. The mini-stars move around a bit on the glass sides.

Is their a certain sand depth detritivores should have?

Not sure why having the detritivores in the 20g tank would be an issue. Normally I would have got sand first but I've been out of town since they arrived and haven't had a chance. Maybe you thought it hadn't been cycled. I didn't want to add them to the main tank since the fish would eat them. The diamond goby is about 5" long and sifts through a lot of sand so they wouldn't have much of a chance.

I doubt seriously that D.T.'s ships to Canada. In the U.S., you have to order D.T.'s from an LFS or an online source, such as Premium Aquatics. I have no idea if Inland Aquatics has anything similar.

Checking with DT's. Looked up their email online.

To tell you the truth, I didn't even know that Inland Aquatics would ship a live detritivore kit to Canada.

Now you know. They don't guarantee LIVE arrival to Canada though.

I'll probably order more phytoplankton and rotifers from reefcrew in Canada. They have their own cultures and get some cultures shiped from florida. Had one set of cultures before but got noise complaints because of the air pump.

[Ninong]

Inland Aquatics sells what they call mini-stars and also what they call micro-stars. The mini-stars are tiny brittle stars. The micro-stars are asterinids. If yours are climbing on the walls of the tank, that's micro-stars.

I have no idea what will survive if you added the amphipods, copepods, spaghetti worms and bristleworms to a tank without live rock and without a decent sand bed. The spaghetti worms require a sand bed. The rest of the stuff requires live rock. That's where they live.

A sand bed of at least 2" depth would suffice but I would prefer at least 3".

P.S. -- There is no reason why you couldn't have added all of that stuff to your main display tank with the fish in it. You add them two hours after all the lights have gone out.

[Seige]

Inland Aquatics sells what they call mini-stars and also what they call micro-stars. The mini-stars are tiny brittle stars. The micro-stars are asterinids. If yours are climbing on the walls of the tank, that's micro-stars.

Thanks. One less mystery to solve...

I have no idea what will survive if you added the amphipods, copepods, spaghetti worms and bristleworms to a tank without live rock and without a decent sand bed. The spaghetti worms require a sand bed. The rest of the stuff requires live rock. That's where they live.

I stayed up until 3am last night watching. Looks like everything I saw alive in the bags is still alive including a few things I didn't see. Of course that doesn't mean the microscopic life forms survived. The spaghetti worms look nice.

A sand bed of at least 2" depth would suffice but I would prefer at least 3".

ok... wasn't thinking that much since it's just detritivores. Should I add something larger to keep the sand sifted. Maybe a conch or small goby. Rather not put predators to the detritivores in that tank.

P.S. -- There is no reason why you couldn't have added all of that stuff to your main display tank with the fish in it. You add them two hours after all the lights have gone out.

I knew I could add them to the main tank but considering the high cost and difficulty in getting replacements since nobody in this country seems to have sand based detritivores I decided to add them to the empty tank. That was partially based on past experience adding Copepods to the main tank. They lasted a few months but have since totally dissappeared.

I also wanted them in a seperate tank to harvest them easier later on for resale. One of the advantages of limited supply north of the border.

[Ninong]

wasn't thinking that much since it's just detritivores.

Well, you need to think about getting more sand and at least 10 lbs of live rock into that tank pronto if you want your expensive detritivores to survive and multiply.

Should I add something larger to keep the sand sifted. Maybe a conch or small goby.

No, you should not add a conch or small goby. The goby will eat the stuff you just paid good money for. The conch will get way too big for that tiny little tank and it won't survive very long anyway. Don't ever get a queen conch (Strombus gigas) for anything less than a 1,000-gal aquarium. Those suckers get 8-12" as adults. It's possible to keep a fighting conch (S. alatus) in a 180-gal tank with a nice sand bed (at least 3" depth) provided you have ample exposed sand bed surface. They don't last long in smaller tanks. I believe the longest I was able to keep one alive in my 120-gal tank (with 6" DSB) was about 20 months.

I knew I could add them to the main tank but considering the high cost and difficulty in getting replacements since nobody in this country seems to have sand based detritivores I decided to add them to the empty tank. That was partially based on past experience adding Copepods to the main tank. They lasted a few months but have since totally dissappeared.

I'm surprised that your copepods disappeared like that. I always had zillions of copepods in my 120-gal tank in spite of having three fairy wrasses. Did you have any mandarinfish? Or maybe some other fish that specializes in copepods? Even so, the copepod populations usually survive and thrive anyway. Assuming you have enough live rock in there to support them. That's why everyone recommends that you not try to keep a mandarinfish unless you have at least a 75-gal tank. Actually it takes 50-100 lbs of really nice live rock loaded with copepods for each mandarinfish. That will permit them to thrive just on the copepods in the tank, which is what they eat in the wild. Copepods make up more than 90% of their natural diet. You can sometimes get them to eat frozen foods but live copepods are better.

I also wanted them in a seperate tank to harvest them easier later on for resale. One of the advantages of limited supply north of the border.

Well, if that's what you're trying to do, then I suggest you have at least a 2"-3" sand bed and at least 20 lbs of live rock in that little 20-gal tank. You still won't get as many copepods and amphipods in there as you would in a larger tank. The copepods require the live rock as habitat -- live rock and/or live rock rubble on the sand bed. The amphipods live in live rock rubble and in the top layer of the sand bed. If your goal is to maintain a growing population of copepods and amphipods, then you should add a few pounds on rubble to your sand bed. The more the better. And you really need to get this done very soon.

Good luck!



P.S. -- Don't put any fish at all in that tank unless they're very small herbivores. Add several grazing snails to tackle the algae and a few Nassarius snails (e.g. N. vibex) to keep the top layer of the sand bed stirred. Do not add any sand-sifting gobies because they will eat the stuff you just bought. If you add any fish that eats zooplankton, your amphipods and copepods will be demolished in a hurry.

The sand bed is an absolute necessity for the spaghetti worms as well as for the amphipods and copepods. Moreso for the amphipods than the copepods. And you absolutely need decent live rock and some live rock rubble. Your populations of amphipods and copepods will be limited by the amount of live rock, live rock rubble and sand you have in the tank. Later on, you should try to get some of these into the main tank to see if they can start multiplying there. Add them three hours after lights are off. If necessary, turn the pumps off first and wait at least ten minutes to make sure the fish stayed sleeping before adding them to the tank.

[Seige]

Well, you need to think about getting more sand and at least 10 lbs of live rock into that tank pronto if you want your expensive detritivores to survive and multiply.

Heading to LFS now. They emptied all their saltwater tanks recently so I'm hoping they have some nassarius snales.

No, you should not add a conch or small goby. The goby will eat the stuff you just paid good money for.

Ya, one of the reasons I didn't add them to the main tank. That goby isn't small and it sifts a lot of sand every day. By using the smaller tank I can always repopulate them in the main tank if the goby eats to many.

I'm surprised that your copepods disappeared like that. I always had zillions of copepods in my 120-gal tank in spite of having three fairy wrasses. Did you have any mandarinfish? Or maybe some other fish that specializes in copepods?

No. The copepods seemed to thrive on the surface in their pre-adult stage but I only ever saw one on the live rock.

Would an emerald crab eat the copepods?

Even so, the copepod populations usually survive and thrive anyway. Assuming you have enough live rock in there to support them.

40-50 pounds of live rock.

If your goal is to maintain a growing population of copepods and amphipods, then you should add a few pounds on rubble to your sand bed. The more the better. And you really need to get this done very soon.

I will. Thanks.

Later on, you should try to get some of these into the main tank to see if they can start multiplying there. Add them three hours after lights are off. If necessary, turn the pumps off first and wait at least ten minutes to make sure the fish stayed sleeping before adding them to the tank.

I was going to wait about 3 months so the smaller tank can reproduce. IA doesn't supply many of each type of detritivore. Most types I only have 1 or 2 of... some up to about 6.

I think the whole shipment would have easily fit in a shot glass. Except all the sand. LOL

[Ninong]

Would an emerald crab eat the copepods?

No, not likely. As juveniles they eat mostly algae. As adults they eat mostly coral polyps in their natural habitat. These things are not really reef-aquarium safe but their predation usually goes unnoticed by most hobbyists. If you run a search on this board, you will find that I have posted on this topic many times, including horror threads posted by hobbyists who had problems with emerald crabs. This is sort of in the same category as keeping an Atlantic green brittle star in your tank and swearing that it doesn't harm anything. Sooner or later, when it's big enough and hungry enough, it will.

[Seige]

No, not likely. As juveniles they eat mostly algae. As adults they eat mostly coral polyps in their natural habitat. These things are not really reef-aquarium safe but their predation usually goes unnoticed by most hobbyists. If you run a search on this board, you will find that I have posted on this topic many times, including horror threads posted by hobbyists who had problems with emerald crabs. This is sort of in the same category as keeping an Atlantic green brittle star in your tank and swearing that it doesn't harm anything. Sooner or later, when it's big enough and hungry enough, it will.

Yes, you've mentioned it before and I've read a few of the horror stories. I chose to add the emerald because I want to have diversity and see how various things act together. When the time comes I fully expect to pull the emerald out of the reef tank and move it to an alternate tank. Capturing it may be a problem but I have a fair bit of open sand and I see it out there in the open about once every 3 weeks after dark so I'm not too worried.

Aragonite Sand and Live Rock added. Expensive enough. $9 a pound. Rock came with a free coral on 1 so I'm happy. Saw a nice rock for $50. Might get my brother to buy it. LOL

[peasofme]

my gammarus and bristles ate flakes. they both multiplied like crazy. will mandarins eat gammarus?