Help with my 75 gallon setup

[surfnturf]

Hey everybody,

I am thinking about rejoining the saltwater aquarium hobby after a 3 year break, and I would love to hear people's thoughts on my plans for my tank.
FISH ONLY
*75 gallon main tank(48*18*20)
*50 gallon sump tank divided into 5 sections(48*12.5*20)
-First section is a drip tank with filter cloth on top and bioballs under it
-Next section would hold about 3 inches of sand, a small piece of live rock, and Chaeto
-Section 3 holds mechanical equipment such as heater and possibly skimmer
-Section 4 has 6" of fine sand, for a DSB
-Final section will have the return pump
*Main tank will have a 2.5" sand bed of sugar fine sand
*I will buy about 20 lbs of live rock and use it to seed about 100 lbs of dead rock that I currently have from my previous tank.
*I will put 2 powerheads in the main tank, so that their flow plus the return pump in the sump is enough to turn the tank water over about 15 times every hour
*Lighting will be provided by 2 48" fluorescents

REEF TANK
*After the tank has matured for a few months, I may adapt it to be able to hold corals, by adding the following things to the fish only set up
*Put a protein skimmer in the sump
*Change the lighting to a 48" NOVA Extreme Pro system
*Add another powerhead to get the tank turnover to about 20 times an hour


I'm sure there are problems with this set up, so if anyone has any suggestions or ideas please let me know. Any help I can get would be great.

p.s. sorry for the length of the post, but I wanted to get all the info in there. Also, I posted the same thing on reefcentral, but I wanted to get some more opinions

[charlie]

If it was me, I would ditch the cloth and the bioballs, and just start with a GOOD skimmer. I would also just go ahead and get the lighting you would want for a reef tank, why spend money twice, same theory with the skimmer. Do it right the first time then you won't be redoing it later.
I would also add more powerheads right off the bat, the fish don't care, they swim in current as it is.
Why don't you just put the DSB in the main tank??? Leave the sump alone, unless you want to put a small refugium down there.
What is your return pump going to be?

[surfnturf]

The negatives on the cloth and bioballs are that they need cleaning frequently right? Or is it more than that? Because I can deal with rinsing them off every week, or a while, and if I ever find myself getting tired of that then I could replace them with a skimmer. As far as the lighting, I already have the fluorescents from a previous tank so they won't cost me anything. I figured that would work for a while, as long as it was fish only. I'll upgrade when I want to get corals.
For the DSB, I have read that it is best to keep it undisturbed since that could potentially lead to the formation and release of hydrogen sulfide which kills everything in the tank. I want to keep a goby pistol shrimp pair, so I can't have the true DSB in the main or they will disturb it. I know I need the sand to be at least as deep is the fish is long though, so I was thinking 2.5-3" for a Hi Fin Red Banded goby. I thought putting the DSB in the sump would be best because I know it will be left alone. I figured since I have the 55 gallon tank anyway, might as well use it, since there should be plenty of room for a refugium, DSB, skimmer/heater section, and return pump, with the possibility of having bioballs as well.

For the return pump, I hadn't looked at anything yet. Do you have any suggestions? Also, what kinds of powerheads should I be looking at for that size tank?

[charlie]

Before we get too far along, how long were you in the hobby before you took a 3 year break and what type of tank did you have?

[surfnturf]

same 75 gallon tank that I will be setting up this time, and probably 2 or 3 years with a mostly fish only tank, although I did put an anemone and a few mushrooms in there if I remember correctly. I think I started it when I was about 13, so I was by no means an expert, or even remotely educated about a lot of the issues with keeping a saltwater tank. I was given some random pieces from somebody's old tank, and I tried to make them work with the advice of the local petstore chain, who I've come to realize were probably more clueless than I was. So I'm trying to do it right this time around, and any suggestions will be welcomed.

[charlie]

OK, don't over think yourself on this sand bed stuff, it ain't rocket science. there are a ton of folks that have a dsb in their display with gobies, shrimp, snails, cucumbers......... you get the idea!!!!!!

The negatives on the cloth and bioballs are that they need cleaning frequently right?

Yes, they do, and in a fish only, I guess they would be fine, but my gut feeling tells me that if you are going to do your sump the way you described, you won't need the headache, are you always going to be diligent about cleaning them on a timely basis?????? In my opinion, you are better off getting a decent skimmer, they do there assigned job, and all you have to do is the minimal maintenance on them. Of course you will have to break down and clean the skimmer, but I only do that once a month on my big system.

Make sure you read, I know you have been, but read more!! There is alot of advice out there, good and bad, you will have to decipher all that, look at what has been successful and also not so successful, you can derive alot from just that. There are some excellent build threads on here and you should probably take the time to go through them, OK. We will be around for any questions you have!!!

Is your sump drilled? for that matter, is your tank drilled?

[surfnturf]

Sorry, not sure what a drilled tank or sump is. If that means does it have holes for tubing and stuff drilled into it then no, they are both glass fishtanks. I have a HOB overflow box to get water into the sump, and I was just gonna run some kind of tubing up the back of the tank and over the lip for the return pump.
About the DSB, as long as I have the room in the sump, what is the benefit, if any, of keeping it in the main tank? Just seems risky to me with the possibility of hydrogen sulfide, when keeping it in the sump would work just as well.

[charlie]

Would you please stop worrying about Hydrogen sulphide????????????? Didn't you absorb what I said about alot of folks with dsb and digging fish and snails in their displays? Do you realize that much sand is gonna cost you a bunch. Do it in the display and get it over with.

[surfnturf]

Glad to hear that it has worked for other people. I've also had a lot of people tell me not to do it, I want to hear both sides of the argument for now. I'm not worried about price since I'm going to use play sand which is pretty cheap.

[charlie]

Done any research on what is in "play sand". You have my opinion, you have Lee's opinion, I guess you can choose for yourself.
There is alot of info out there on DSB, and we could discuss it all night, but I really think that instead of listening to other peoples opinions, maybe you should go back to reading as much as you can and make a decision based on your opinion, that is the only way you learn.

[surfnturf]

I haven't really researched play sand yet. Are you implying that it will be harmful to use?

[CutthroatKid]

And my words of wisdom... well words anyways. Decide what you want it to be eventually and get what you need the first time. Don't be cheap, or you'll pay more later.
I am an extremely cheap individual, and I realized pretty quick that you need to spend the money and do it right from the get go.
Also,research is key, but if someone more experienced offers advice, listen. There's plenty that I've learned from others that I never found on the internet or in books.

H2S should not be an issue with a proper clean up crew to keep everything in check.

[charlie]

I haven't really researched play sand yet. Are you implying that it will be harmful to use?

Do a search on it. I am sure that you will find alot of info. I cannot do your homework for you, I flunked out of college.

[zhenya]

OK, I can help you with the deep sand bed articles, hope you brought your reading glasses... ;)

How Sandbeds REALLY Work by Ronald L. Shimek, Ph.D. - Reefkeeping.com

Ron Shimek's Website...Deep Sand Beds

After you done with these just give me a holler and I'll add a few more.

[surfnturf]

Nice, I hadn't read that second one yet. You said you had a few more to add?

[surfnturf]

did you mean to add something to that post?

[zhenya]

did you mean to add something to that post?

Is there anything else you need to know about deep sand beds that you didn't get from the articles I linked to?
In any case, here's a link to some publications of Rob Toonen, scroll down some to find some articles on his recent study of plenum versus DSB.
Rob Toonen Lab - Marine Biology Publications

[surfnturf]

Ok thanks, appreciate it. My "did you mean to add something to this post" was in response to somebody quoting one of my posts but then not adding anything to it, so I was confused. Maybe it was my computer acting up, or me being tired. It wasn't directed at you though.

[surfnturf]

Do a search on it. I am sure that you will find alot of info. I cannot do your homework for you, I flunked out of college.

I can't even tell if you think play sand is dangerous to put in aquariums or not. Either way, I feel confident it will be ok.

Reefs.org: Where Reefkeeping Begins on the Internet - Silica Sand

[charlie]

I just hope you get the right sand, because if you don't, it will release silica into your system, and I do believe you will regret your decision to not go with something a little more natural like aragonite. Sometimes cheaper is not always better. Good luck.