8 clownfish in 200 gallon tank?

[Mikel151]

Hi, I am relatively new to dealing with aquariums as I have only had my for a few months but I am really enjoying it. I have a 200 gallon reef aquarium and currently have 4 orange percula clowns and 2 black percs along with the fish listed below. The first 2 fish I put in were two fairly big orange percs, than about a month later I added 2 more orange percs about the same size however the older clowns keep chasing the newer ones and all they do is hide so you never get to see them. About a month later I added 2 very small black percs and they don't get bothered at all and are doing great. I really want to add 2 more orange percs which will give me 8 total (black percs included) because you never get to see the 2nd pair I put in since they are literally always hiding. Is this ok for a 200 gallon tank? Should I get them very small like I did with the two black percs which never get bothered? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

The other fish I have are as follows:
2 blue tangs
1 yellow tang
1 flame angel
1 coral beauty
1 potters angel (my fave btw)
1 copperband (keeps itching, don't think he's gonna make it)
1 foxface
6 Chromis

[Ninong]

Hi Mikel151,




The color of the clownfish isn't important, what's important is the species. It sounds to me like your "black percs" may not be the same species as your original "orange percs" and that's why the "orange percs" haven't bothered them.

If the two original "orange percs" are harrassing the newer "orange percs," then it's quite possible that they're all the same species. If they're really percs (Amphiprion percula), then this is quite understandable. Percula clownfish are not as receptive to having new 'roommates' as ocellaris clowns (Amphiprion ocellaris). That's why people who wish to keep a group of more than two of the same species will often go with ocellaris clowns rather than percula clowns.

When you say "black percs," are you talking about A. percula or A. ocellaris? Most so-called "black percs" on the market are actually a black color morph of A. ocellaris that is native to northern Australia, near Darwin. However, there are newer black color morphs of true percula clownfish that have been captive-bred and those are now on the market, too.

It would help solve your predicament if we knew for certain exactly which species all six of your clownfish are. Since you're calling them "percs," I guess we could assume you're correct in their identification but then their behavior is puzzling, which leads me to believe that you may be off in your identification. That's why I hate common names.

Most people would not attempt to keep more than one pair of the same species of clownfish in a tank as small as 200 gallons. In a tank of that size, it will be difficult for more than one sexually mature pair to form. When you say the first two "orange percs" were "fairly big," what does that mean exactly?

If these are all captive-bred fish, then it's almost certain that they were sexually immature juveniles when you purchased them.

[Mikel151]

Thanks for the reply, the orange clowns I believe are percs and the black ones I remember were Australian percs, by fairly large I would say they were about 2-3 inches. Most people at the fish stores that a 200 gallon aquarium isn't small at all and should be able to house numerous clowns with out a problem. Should I maybe then try 2 orange ocellaris instead if i add tow more?

[Ninong]

Thanks for the reply, the orange clowns I believe are percs and the black ones I remember were Australian percs...

Okay, that's what I suspected based on the behavior you observed. What you're calling "Australian percs" are not percs. They're a black color morph of A. ocellaris. That's why your "orange percs," which I am only assuming are true percs (A. percula) left them alone.

Most people at the fish stores that a 200 gallon aquarium isn't small at all and should be able to house numerous clowns with out a problem.

You misunderstood what I said. Here is what I said: "Most people would not attempt to keep more than one pair of the same species of clownfish in a tank as small as 200 gallons. In a tank of that size, it will be difficult for more than one sexually mature pair to form."

I didn't mean to imply at a 200-gal tank is a small tank, what I said was that it's too small for more than one pair of the same species to form. Big difference.

Based solely on the behavior you reported, I'm going to assume that your four "orange percs" are all the same species and that species is A. percula. That means that the first two that were in the tank first are unwilling to accept the newer two as 'roommates.' The first two will eventually become a mated par with the larger of the two becoming female and the other one becoming male. The two later arrivals will not be allowed to mature sexually. They will remain sexually immature, neither male nor female. Their sexual development will be kept in check by harassment from the dominant pair. That's just the facts of life.

Your two so-called Australian percs, which are not percs at all but ocellaris clowns, will form a pair of their own. They're not the same species as the others.

Should I maybe then try 2 orange ocellaris instead if i add tow more?

Right now I think you probably have four A. percula clowns, all of them orange in color, and two A. ocellaris clowns, black in color. I wouldn't advise adding any more. If anything, I would remove the two A. percula that are being harassed.

Whether you choose to try to keep several different species of clownfishes in a 200-gal aquarium is up to you. Just know ahead of time which species are more aggressive and likely to bother your present clowns. And if you plan on keeping more than two of the same species, know in advance what to expect in a tank of this size.

[Mikel151]

Thanks for the advice, I am going to give it a go and add two very small orange clowns, would you recommend doing percs or ocellaris? Worst case scenario the two new ones aren't accepted and don't make it, I think they are only like $10 a pop for the small ones, so it's worth a try. Thanks again

[Ninong]

Thanks for the advice, I am going to give it a go and add two very small orange clowns, would you recommend doing percs or ocellaris? Worst case scenario the two new ones aren't accepted and don't make it, I think they are only like $10 a pop for the small ones, so it's worth a try. Thanks again

Ocellaris clowns are usually more accepting of having more than two in the same tank. You will still end up with just one pair but they will usually be more tolerant of the others. Perculas are usually more feisty.

I'm not recommending that you add either, that's up to you.

[Mikel151]

This is probably a dumb question, but why does it matter if there are pairs or not? Can't they do ok on there own?

[Ninong]

This is probably a dumb question, but why does it matter if there are pairs or not? Can't they do ok on there own?

Clownfish are protandrous hermaphrodites. Sex is determined by social aggression. If you put in two of the same species, you will end up with a male-female pair, provided you didn't start out with two sexually mature females. If you put more than two of the same species into anything other than a really large tank (like maybe 500+ gallons), you will usually end up with one mated pair and the others will be just hangers-on. They will be dominated by the pair and not allowed to enjoy life very much.

If you put a single clownfish into a tank, that's a different story. What we're talking about here is what happens when you put two of the same species together and what happens when you put more than two of the same species together. Most people prefer to not put more than two of the same species together except in really large tanks and usually only if they have a really large host anemone for them, especially a really large carpet anemone.

It's up to you. It can be done but most people choose not to go that route. Most people who want several clownfish in a 200-gal tank would go with maybe three pairs of three different species, avoiding really aggressive species, such as maroons or Clark's.

Clownfish are not haremic like anthias or fairy wrasses. They form mated pairs for life.

[Mikel151]

Since I have the Ocelaris and Perc, what other species would you suggest?

[Ninong]

Since I have the Ocelaris and Perc, what other species would you suggest?

A lot depends on whether you have plans to add any clownfish-hosting sea anemones or not.

I wouldn't add more than two anemones to a 200-gal tank and the choice of anemone depends not only on which ones are acceptable as hosts by your clownfish but also on the difficulty in keeping them in captivity. Some are easier than others.

[Ninong]

I would suggest you get yourself a copy of Joyce Wilkerson's Clownfishes, it's less than $25 and very helpful for hobbyists.

Another good source of information, but it's not at all aquarium-related, is Daphne Fautin's book that you can read for FREE here.

[Mikel151]

What are some nice to llok at reef safe fish I can add as well that I don't have on the list?

[Ninong]

Well, for starters, you already have some of my favorite fishes.

A foxface rabbitfish (Siganus vulpinus) was my very first fish. I liked that fish a lot but it quickly outgrew my little 120-tank, so I gave it to someone with a 300-gal tank.

I have had both a flame angelfish (Centropyge loriculus) and a coral beauty (C. bispinosa). I really liked the flame angelfish better because it had more personality than the coral beauty.

Had my tank been larger, I would definitely have gotten a copperbanded butterflyfish (Chelmon rostratus). I had an orchid dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani) -- it was my second fish -- and I liked it a lot. I also had Scott's fairy wrasses (Cirrhilabrus scottorum) and lineatus fairy wrasses (C. lineatus). The dominant male Scott's had a lot of personality but it was rather aggressive with other fairy wrasses.

I like fairy wrasses and flasher wrasses and I like Centropyge angelfishes a lot. Both fairy wrasses and flasher wrasses are jumpers and the tank must be made jumper-proof before ordering them.

There are so many fishes to choose from that it's hard to decide which ones you like best. If my tank had been larger, I might have tried one (or maybe a pair) of Genicanthus angels, probably G. bellus.

[Mikel151]

Thanks for the great advice man, I have 3 dwarf angels already, one coral beauty, one flame angel and one potters angel (my fave). The coral beauty was put in about 2 months ago and I added the other 2 a few days ago, they guys at the LFS said they may fight a little at first but it should be ok. The coral beauty chases the potters a bit but only when he gets to close, other than that they seem to exist together decently. What do you think of this combo, do you think they will all last ok?

[Ninong]

Your three dwarf angels shold be fine in a 200-gal aquarium because they will all have space to themselves. Three of them in a 40-gal aquarium might be a different story.

[zhenya]

What are some nice to llok at reef safe fish I can add as well that I don't have on the list?

I think, personally, that you about maxed out on the fish population for your size tank and I wouldn't add anything else. You have 20 fish in there already, correct?

[Ninong]

Zhenya,

I don't really disagree with you but I would like to point out that only five of his fish (3 tangs, 1 foxface & 1 copperbanded butterflyfish) are will become above average in size. I would definitely agree that he's moving too fast for someone with limited experience and a large 200-gal tank.

I would strongly recommend that he purchase a couple of good books and read them so that he will be able to spot unhelpful LFS advice when he comes across it.

Robert Fenner has published a revised and updated second edition of his very helpful Conscientious Marine Aquarist. That's a very good basic book that includes a lot of information on a wide range of reef fishes.

Since he's obviously interested in clownfishes, he really should get Joyce Wilkerson's excellent book, Clownfishes. And since he's posting this thread in the Reef Aquariums Forum, I will assume that his aquarium is, or will soon become, a reef tank. That's why I would strongly recommend he get Eric Borneman's Aquarium Corals book.

Those three books would give him an excellent foundation and he would then know ten times as much as the average LFS employee.

[Mikel151]

Thanks for everyone's help, I am certainly a newbie and I am opened to any advice you guys can offer me. I do have about 20 fish but most of them are really small and only a few like Ninong said are going to grow much larger. I am going to start adding some corals to as well, I am looking for some that will really give me a bang for my buck, as I have seen really small ones that are pretty expensive. Any suggestions? Also what are your thoughts on anemones for the clownfish, I never really understood thge purpose of them?

[Ninong]

Before you start adding corals, you wil have to check your water parameters with various test kits: calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, nitrate and pH just for starters. What salt mix are you using? What water source are you using for the freshwater to make up the saltwater? Do you have an R.O./D.I. system? What are you adding to maintain calcium and alkalinity? Exactly how are you handling replacement of evaporated water? What is your salinity? What are you using to check salinity?

Exactly what is your present lighting? Most corals require intense lighting, reef fishes do not.

I think you should slow down and get those books that I recommended above first. You need the one on clownfishes (less than $22 online) to understand the relationship between clownfishes and their host anemones and also how to care for both. Wilkerson's book covers all of that.

Dr. Daphne Fautin's FREE online book will give you a lot of information about clownfishes and their host anemones but it provides no information at all that directly relates to aquarium care.

Dr. Ron Shimek wrote an excellent article on Reefland about how to care for anemones.

Clownfishes do not live on their own in their natural environment. All clownfishes live in host anemones. Most anemones are not easy to care for in a newly-set up aquarium. It's better to wait a minimum of six to eight months before purchasing your first anemone. And you should never start buying something like this until after you have read up on what you're getting into and how to care for them. That's true of everything. Remember, your LFS employees may not know what they're talking about. Besides, they're not in the business of talking you out of buying stuff. It's their job to sell stuff.



P.S. -- How many pounds of live rock do you have in your aquarium and how deep is your sand bed? I will assume it's aragonite sand and not crushed coral. What are the dimensions of your tank? Is this a 7-ft long tank?