Hamilton vs Ushio

[milo123]

as said in earlier post, recently went with M.H. 175w 14000K retrofit (2) over 65gal. i ordered Ushio lamps but they sent Hamilton by mistake. recieved Ushio's today and exchanged lamps in canopy, what a difference! i dont know if it is just MY eyesight or what, but the Hamiltons are ALOT more blue as opposed to the Ushio's. almost as if Ushio's were 10000k, lamp says 14000 but the difference between the two is almost night and day. HAS ANYONE EVER RUN HAMILTONS AND SWITHED TO USHIOS OR VICE VERSA? like i said the difference is almost night and day, dont know if i want to send Hamiltons back or keep and send Ushio's back, kinda liked the deep blue effect of the Hamiltons. wife & kids even noticed difference

[Ninong]

I tried to look those up for you on Sanjay's website but apparently he hasn't tested the 175w Ushio 14,000K lamps. He has tested the 175w Hamilton 14,000K lamps and the 175w Ushio in both 10,000K and 20,000K.

Here are Sanjay's results: 175w Hamilton 14,000K = 29 PPFD, 175w Ushio 20,000K = 37 PPFD, 175w Ushio 10,000K = 75 PPFD. I used the standard M57 ballast for all three of those lamps.

Obviously the Hamilton produces a lot less PAR than even the 20,000K Ushio of the same wattage. In general, the bluer the appearance, the weaker the lamp when it comes to PAR (photosynthetically active radiation).

My choice would be to go with the 14,000K Ushio lamps over the 14,000K Hamilton lamps. If even the 20,000K Ushio lamps are more intense than the 14,000K Hamiltons, then I suspect that the Ushio 14,000K lamps are probably better than the Hamilton 14,000K lamps.

[SpokaneReef]

If you like the hamitons you should try the XM bulbs. now those are blue, and it also depends on your reflector too.

I had Ushio, Hamiltons and XM bulbs they were all tested in the hamilton reefstar HM system. I kept the XM bulbs then changed to a coralvue reflector. Now my 20K bulb looks like a 14K Ushio.

[charlie]

If you like the hamitons you should try the XM bulbs. now those are blue, and it also depends on your reflector too.

I had Ushio, Hamiltons and XM bulbs they were all tested in the hamilton reefstar HM system. I kept the XM bulbs then changed to a coralvue reflector. Now my 20K bulb looks like a 14K Ushio.

What wattage are you running James??? I am sure you are running at least 250w, and I don't think it is a valid comparison the 175W vs 250W. If I have a 20K bulb I would want it to look like a 20K bulb, but that is just me.

[SpokaneReef]

yes I have 250W DE HQI bulbs and you maybe right since they say a 250W DE HQI is pretty close to being equal to a 400W SE

Either way XM bulbs are known for being "blue"

[charlie]

Absolutely no comparison James, check the 250w double ended with an icecap electronic ballast versus a 400w single ended with the icecap electronic ballast. I am talking about 20K XM bulbs. The 400w has a value of 99 versus a 36 on the 250w double ended.

[SpokaneReef]

Value of what?

[charlie]

P a r.

[charlie]

Have you ever looked at Sanjay's site James?

[SpokaneReef]

I might have skimmed over it, please post the link I would love to see the tests and results.

[charlie]

It is a sticky in the lighting forum.

[charlie]

If I am mistaken the way I read these results, I am sorry, please don't take offense like before.;)

[Ninong]

I think the confusion about whether or not a 250w HQI DE lamp is equivalent to a 400w SE lamp comes from a study Sanjay published some seven or eight 10 years ago. People have misconstrued what he said. What he said was that the Ushio 250w DE HQI lamp that he tested on a standard magnetic ballast produced more PAR than one or two 400w SE lamps that he tested. Actually Sanjay didn't say Ushio by name but that's the brand that he used for the test. The 400w lamp(s) that were below the Ushio 10,000K 250w HQI DE lamp were not 10,000K (or 6500K either for that matter). And all of the lamps in that particular test, including the 250w 10,000K HQI DE lamp, were tested without a UV shield. All DE HQI lamps require a UV shield. They cannot be run without one. The UV shield reduces the intensity by about 15%.

The Ushio 250w HQI DE lamp was not tested in the same test with the 400w lamps but the comparisons were valid. That's NOT to say that a 250w 10,000K HQI DE lamp is superior to a 400w 10,000K SE lamp. Most, if not all, 400w 10,000K lamps will produce more PAR than any 250w 10,000K HQI DE lamp.

One thing we did learn from Sanjay's tests is that a Ushio 175w 10,000K SE lamp produced three times as much PAR as the worst performing 175w SE lamp that Sanjay tested. Three times as much!

So there is a tremendous variation in PAR between lamps of the same wattage and there can also be variation based on the ballast used. You certainly can't expect a 14,000K lamp to produce the same amount of PAR as a 10,000K lamp. That's just not going to happen. When you decide that you like the "blue appearance," don't forget that you are giving up a lot of PAR to get that blue appearance. It's much better to go with 10,000K lamps and then add fluorescent actinic supplementation. All of this assumes we're talking about metal halide lamps. If you're considering HO T5 lamps, then you can just choose different 'colors' to get the appearance you like. But with fluorescent lamps too you lose a lot of PAR when you go for a blue appearance. A daylight fluorescent lamp will produce more than twice as much PAR as an actinic fluorescent lamp.

[SpokaneReef]

That clears up a lot of stuff but raises some questions.

1. What is PAR?
2. Why is PAR so important?
3. Is PAR what you should look at most when choosing a light?

I know from my point, I made my choice on XM because of recommendations and the color factor. I tested a few other bulbs out that were too white or too yellow.

Also the ballast play a huge role in all this. Charlie made a good point of comparing icecap to icecap at the website he sent me to. It is too bad this website does not have either of my ballast so I really don't know what my PAR is and how it rates to what is on this website.

Finally I might have missed it but I believe they compared the 250W DE with the 400W DE bulbs.
Where I was talking 250W HQI DE to a 400W SE bulb

I guess this is another one of those things that you have to find what you like and what works for you. I may only be getting 36 PAR but I have great color and growth, especially for a 20K bulb.

[charlie]

Sanjay explains PAR on one of the tabs James. Like you, he has not tested the ballast I am going to change to, but I think you may be able to take a clue that the Icecap ballast he tested with was an electronic ballast. I don't know what ballast you use, I am going to switch to the 400w Lumatek ballasts.
Your tank is new, and the fact that you are pretty testy as far as dosing and levels go helps you get the growth you have. Also, you have a bunch of frags, and they are known for their ability to suck up calcium, and alkalinity, and just flat grow.

[Ninong]

That clears up a lot of stuff but raises some questions.

1. What is PAR?

Photosynthetically active radiation.

2. Why is PAR so important?

Because that's what drive photosynthesis.

3. Is PAR what you should look at most when choosing a light?

It's probably the most important of several factors that you should take into consideration.

I know from my point, I made my choice on XM because of recommendations and the color factor. I tested a few other bulbs out that were too white or too yellow.

In other words, you based your decision on what your human eyes perceived and not necessarily what the zooxanthellae utilize. Don't forget that our human eyes are more sensitive to yellow light because we're diurnal mammals now, we're no longer nocturnal and haven't been for several million years.

Choosing lamps that are pleasing to our eyes is fine, too. After all, we have to be pleased with what we're looking at but we have to balance our desires with the desires of the corals, etc.

Finally I might have missed it but I believe they compared the 250W DE with the 400W DE bulbs.
Where I was talking 250W HQI DE to a 400W SE bulb

The tests I'm talking about are not included in Sanjay's search feature. He doesn't have any of the old tests in there. The 400w SE lamps were tested in 1998 and the 250w DE and SE lamps were tested in 1999. There were no 400w DE lamps ten years ago.

In Sanjay's tests of certain 250w lamps back in 1999, the Ushio 10,000K HQI DE lamp produced more PAR than any other 250w lamp (SE or DE) tested and more PAR than the worst performing of the 400w SE lamps that he tested in 1998. It did not produce more PAR than all of the 400w lamps tested (and remember they were all SE because DE 400w did not exist). And all of the lamps were tested 18" from the sensor and without a UV shield. Remember that DE lamps MUST be run with a shield.


I suggest you read through Sanjay's articles for a better understanding of the various factors that come into play when choosing lighting for a reef aquarium.

[SpokaneReef]

I am going to switch to the 400w Lumatek ballasts.

Why did you choose this ballast and why are you going to a 400, don't you have a 250W DE already? I believe you have three of them over your tank if I remember right. Why not just add another 250W if you need more?

Your tank is new, and the fact that you are pretty testy as far as dosing and levels go helps you get the growth you have. Also, you have a bunch of frags, and they are known for their ability to suck up calcium, and alkalinity, and just flat grow.

Yeah I like to keep my levels up there for growth and the tank stable as possible. I believe with the flow and lighting these are the most important to have a successful reef tank.

[charlie]

Why did you choose this ballast and why are you going to a 400, don't you have a 250W DE already? I believe you have three of them over your tank if I remember right. Why not just add another 250W if you need more?

I think you need to look closer. I have 4 400w and 2 250 James, have had since the beginning. I chose the ballast because I have heard good things from people that know alot more than I do, I tend to listen to people like that. Less heat produced from the ballast itself and they seem to tend to overdrive the bulbs, do the research. I wouldn't switch to 6 of these without doing my research my friend.

Yeah I like to keep my levels up there for growth and the tank stable as possible. I believe with the flow and lighting these are the most important to have a successful reef tank.

Seems like I have heard that from someone else too.;)

[SpokaneReef]

I wouldn't switch to 6 of these without doing my research my friend.

YAHOO I AM YOUR FRIEND AGAIN!

Seems like I have heard that from someone else too.;)

I bet it was a really smart guy on one of these boards.

[SpokaneReef]

BTW, what reflectors do you run?

Lumatek ballasts dont come in 250W according to their website. Bummer.

I take that back I see they are dual voltage. I might have to look into these when I am ready to change out my ballasts