Fresh water setup good enough for nitrogen cycle and curing?

[Bodegus]

I'm piecing together a reef tank using craigslist

I recently picked up a 29g tank with puny filter and a normal florescent light. I saw a great deal for a good amount of live rock today. I was going to pick up some live sand at petsmart (thanks to a craigslist gift card!), and was wondering if this setup could successfully go through a nitrogen cycle?

I am holding on to see if I can get a good deal on lighting before I shell out retail , and pick up a penguin 350B power filter.

[gregr]

Hey-
Coupla things come to mind- firstly, can you find out if that tank has ever been treated with any medications containing copper? Copper is deadly to a lot of invertebrates.
Second thing that comes to mind is you should probably stay away from that Penguin filter. Those kinds of filters aren't used much in the saltwater reefkeeping world because they tend to create more problems than they solve. Your money would be better spent on a good protein skimmer and a powerhead or two for good circulation.
Aside from that, and assuming no residual copper in there, yeah- that tank could go thru a nitrogen cycle. Lights aren't necessary for that. Best advice is try to figure out what you want to keep in there and then create a tank that will support the corals you want. Keep in mind smaller tanks are harder to keep stable- if you have the room and can find a good deal go big! I know... easy to say

[gregony]

+1 on no Penguin. A 350's too big for a 29G anyhoo. I use a Penguin 170 on my 40g, but I removed the filter cartridge and the biowheel and just put a bag of carbon in it. They're good for that.

[Parrothead]

One other thing, before you go nuts on the craigslist deals, read my first post in the rebuild of Parrotheads 55 gallon reef, you'll be glad you did

[Steve McKay]

When I had a 30g,I had a Penguin 150&200.They are no good for a reef tank,a good skimmer,good circulation and a reasonable amount of LR will do just fine add some carbon and you will be good to go.When you get ready to start up your tank,the sand and rock should be in it as it goes through the nitrogen cycle.More than likely the LR will start the cycle.

[Bodegus]

Thanks for the advice. will skip on the penguin . I should probably remember my own lessons on going cheap. 29g is as big as I want to go for a first try. And the biggest I can go in my condo without building it into a wall. The owner bought new, was used for 6 months (no sickness). One of his fish died in the ornamental castle... owner didn't realize a fish was missing (and stuck in there) and everything was dead when he woke up.

I decided to skip on the live rock the guy seemed kind of shady...

I was recommended by a friend to buy regular rock and let the bacteria grown onto it. Cruising the Minnesota Fish keeper forum there is a reputable guy selling 150 lb of Lace rock for $75. If I don't mind waiting 8 weeks for it to cure do you think it's worth it?

[gregony]

Nooooooooooooooo.
On my very first tank, I didn't have enough money to fill the tank with live rock, so I put some live rock and some lace rock to fill in the space, BUT, it was a fish only tank (well, with a mushroom rock). For a reef tank, you need live rock. Lace rock is just filler rock, it looks nice, but even algae doesn't like growing on it. It's awesome rock for a cichlid tank. Lace rock will never provide adequate filtration for a reef tank. There isn't nearly as much oxygen in a saltwater tank as freshwater.
Remember, you don't have to add all the live rock at once. You also don't have to have quite as much as some people say, provided you don't load the tank up with corals and fish. My personal belief is that a reef tank should run for more than 6 months before adding livestock, unless you purchased known cured live rock from a local LFS. If you mail order live rock or you buy it out of the back of a van (so to speak) you don't know how live it really is, and so you need to let it mature.
In short, Minneapolis is a big city, they've got to have a decent LFS somewhere in that town where you can get decent live rock. Get 15lbs of Fiji (should cost between 75 and 100 dollars), and start from there. If you can afford 25 to 30lbs that's probably all you'll ever need, especially if you get a nice deep sand bed going. If you start with a smaller amount (like the 15lbs or so) you can add fully cured rock later as you can afford it and not have to worry about cycling. You can actually start cycling a tank with just the sand bed, and a couple of pounds of live rock (its just that easy). You just can't start adding livestock until you've got enough live rock to do the job.
You can't really tell live rock is fully cured by looking at it. The best way to make sure, is to go to an LFS a few weeks in a row, and look at their live rock tank, and look over some of the pieces you like. Make a mental note of them (heck, take a picture with your phone). If they're still there a few weeks later, then the rock is almost certainly cured. Cured live rock should smell fresh, not fishy. Also, you'll get to see the store on a consistent basis, talk to the staff, if they're marine only, or have a significant marine selection, they will know how important live rock is. Remember the golden rule for reef tanks, time is on your side. The longer it takes to do things, the better everything will be. Don't get pressured into buying something NOW to solve "the problem". You're creating an ecosystem. The more intimate you are with that ecosystem the better its chances of survival will be.
As you go forward, and buy livestock, many corals will come attached to live rock. So, down the road, you'll acquire rock from places you may not think of now.
To get started you need a tank, clean water, salt, sand, a bit of live rock, a heater, a thermometer, a hydrometer, and a powerhead to move the water around. The normal flourescent light will be ok for the cycle. You'll obviously need something better in the near future. Also in the near future, you'll need a protein skimmer. If you need a hang on the back style, I recommend an Aqua C Remora. I use a CPR Backpack 2, but it's fussy and if I was a beginner and hadn't used a few different skimmers in the past I would have tossed it in the lake by now.
I don't think 150lbs of lace rock would even fit in a 29gallon tank.
One more thing, if you can find it and afford it, I'd recommend Marshall live rock; you'll know the Marshall rock is real when you see it cause it will blow you away.

[gregony]

Oh, and in case you didn't read the stickys or didn't know, never add uncured live rock to an established tank. The uncured live rock will obviously need to cycle. If it does this in your tank, it will generate ammonia and nitrates, poisoning the inhabitants.

[Parrothead]

+1 on greg's huge post, especially the aquaC remora, I run one on my 55 and swear by it

[Bodegus]

Thanks for the advice. Trying to go cheap and trying to go right at the same just isn't going work . I'll check out some LFS around me .

[Parrothead]

Thanks for the advice. Trying to go cheap and trying to go right at the same just isn't going work . I'll check out some LFS around me .

You can also find some good prices on-line, especially some of our sponsors who always got some type of special going on. Like I told you, I tried cheap, and thats what I got, now I've had to start all over and am doing it right, it will take me a little longer, but I know it will be done right this time.