Refugium Questions

[thomasR]

Ok i currently have a 45 gal reef tank. I am thinking about going to a 65. I was also told to consider a 20 gal refugium. I am told this would give me effectively the bioload of an 85 gallon because of the extra bacteria, which would allow me to add more fish. First, Is this true? Second how do i pump water to and from the refugium without causing a spill because of different pump flows? Do i just buy two of the same pump? What kind of pumps would i need? I would appreciate any advice or a guide if anyone knows of a good one for beginners.

Thanks
Thomas

[Parrothead]

Ok i currently have a 45 gal reef tank. I am thinking about going to a 65. I was also told to consider a 20 gal refugium. I am told this would give me effectively the bioload of an 85 gallon because of the extra bacteria, which would allow me to add more fish. First, Is this true? Second how do i pump water to and from the refugium without causing a spill because of different pump flows? Do i just buy two of the same pump? What kind of pumps would i need? I would appreciate any advice or a guide if anyone knows of a good one for beginners.

Thanks
Thomas

If you go with the 65/20 fuge, make it a fuge sump, one return pump check out this guys website for diy plans, very simple, very affective, and will not cost you an arm and a leg.

Melevsreef.com - DIY Glass Sump & Refugium

[thomasR]

Ok that helps, thanks. But i still have alot of questions. First, how do i know how big of a pump i need for the return? How do i prevent overflow of the sump? How do i get water to flow over the edge of the tank into the sump, since the tube would have to go over my water level? I know this is probably all pretty basic but they are questions I need answered to do this. If anyone knows answers or of any very basic, spell-it-out-for-you kind of guides that would be very helpful.

Thanks
Thomas

[Doodaa]

Ok that helps, thanks. But i still have alot of questions. First, how do i know how big of a pump i need for the return?

You match the pump size with your overflow capacity. I have a larger pump than my overflow, so I use a valve to regulate the return flow.

How do i prevent overflow of the sump?

By adjusting the sump level and the overflow level. You have to keep the sump low enough so in the event of a power failure, the sump can hold the water the overflow box drains until the siphon stops.

How do i get water to flow over the edge of the tank into the sump, since the tube would have to go over my water level?

If you don't have a drilled tank, which sounds like you don't, you'll need a overflow box like this CRP overflow box.

[Parrothead]

Thanks Doodaa, I figured the website would have answered the rest of questions, excellent add

[Doodaa]

Thanks Doodaa, I figured the website would have answered the rest of questions, excellent add

Right you are Parrot. I figure, the more info the better

Thanks!

[thomasR]

ok cool that makes alot more sense, but now another questions arises how exactly do i tell how big of a pump i need. Im still planning on a 65/20 setup. Also are those overflow boxes rated at gallons of the main tank or gallons of the system( so i know which i would want).

[Parrothead]

Thomas,

Reread post 4, asked and answered,

You match your return pump to the rating of you overflow, if your actually question is what size do I need I would look at the mag 7 or mag 9 and get the overflow that matches up to that, I'm gonna guess that you are going to have about a 4 foot head on the return, so when you read about the mag 9 and see 900 pgh, thats at 0 head, look at the chart and you will see that at a 4 foot head, you will only get about 6 - 700 gph, corals like flow, that's why I recommend the mag and cpr makes some excellent overflows

[thomasR]

ok now crp overflows do i want the one for 60 gal or 100 gal? probably 100 but i dont know if the rating includes fuge/sump water or not. also dont know if the 5 gal matter ( 65 tank 60 box)

thanks

[Doodaa]

See, there are tons of options here. What will fit? I'd get the biggest one you can make fit. Those recommendations are just that...it's not a rule and quite frankly, I'd say they are minimum flow rates for the size tanks they recommend them for because the flow rates they advertise are under the best possible conditions and you will rarely see that in a real life functioning set up. Their "rating" is for the main tank, don't include the sump volume. I can't really think of a reason why bigger isn't better in overflow/pump situation. You can always slow it down, but you can't speed it up. And I always think of future upgrades at the same time I purchase for my current system.

One thing or the other will be your limiting factor...the pump or the overflow box. Decide which one of those you can get and then match the other to that one. When matching the pump, as Parrothead said, make sure you figure in the head pressure on the pump. Head pressure knocks the flow rate down quite quickly.

[Parrothead]

check out this link and look at the CS100, you could get this over flow with a mag 9 pump and be in good shape.

Cpr overflow cpr cs50 overflow cpr cs90 overflow cpr overflow boxes cpr cs100 overflow Cpr continuous siphon overflow reef aquarium marine for sale salt water saltwater best

[thomasR]

Ok i see but now that i look at pumps the mag 9 on that website is 780 at 1 foot head. it doesnt say beyond that. But the overflow you recomended is 800gph. or can you adjust these down, and where do i find a chart for more head length?

[thomasR]

lol found flow charts i just need to know if the overflow can be turned down at necessarry. Also for the hosing do i just go to my local hardware store and get plastic hosing to fit? also Is check valving the return a good idea?

[Parrothead]

I meant the Mag 9.5

Here's your Chart

Danner Mag-Drive Supreme Water Pump Details)

[Parrothead]

lol found flow charts i just need to know if the overflow can be turned down at necessarry. Also for the hosing do i just go to my local hardware store and get plastic hosing to fit? also Is check valving the return a good idea?

All you need is clear hose can be purchased at any home depot or lowes, I would recommend using a pvc fitting and a hose barb attached to the pump to get it above the water line so that you can use a stainless steel hose clamp to clamp down the return, at the tank you need what is called a siphon break below the water line, this way if there is a power failure you will only drain back a couple of gallons to the sump

[Doodaa]

The overflow doesn't need to be turned down, it will only drain as fast as the pump can deliver. The pump pumping too fast for the overflow is what you have to watch out for and throttle back if necessary.

[Doodaa]

oh and to clarify...Parrot's siphon break hole will prevent the need for a check valve. Lot's of people don't like check valves because they reduce flow and aren't very consistently reliable.

[Steve McKay]

A siphon break hole is very important obviously,just keep it clean as it can become clogged with debris.

[thomasR]

ok thanks everyone for all the useful info. i thin i will use the cs100 and a mag 9.5 at the head i will use it should flow about 780 but the sump will flow 800, which apparently it wont since the pump wont. Thanks for all the help. I may have questions when i actually put it together but for now i have all the info i need thanks.

Thomas

[Doodaa]

i thin i will use the cs100 and a mag 9.5 at the head i will use it should flow about 780 but the sump will flow 800, which apparently it wont since the pump wont.

That 800 is a straight drain maximum flow under perfect conditions, if you have turns in your drain line, that number won't happen for you.

Here's what I like to do...Get a larger pump than whatever will ever possibly drain out of my display tank. I plumb that in with the size piping that the pump recommends, but I put in a "T" back into the sump with a valve on it. This way, I can control the amount of flow into the display tank and let the pump flow unrestricted aside from head pressure.

That's my method, but others will work too...just makes the most sense to me is all. You can't trust the manufacturer's numbers because you will more than likely have elbows or turns and will get buildup in your pipes, which reduce flow, and will constantly have to clean the pump in order to perfectly match drain flow with pump flow. The other option is to get a smaller pump than the drain, but I don't like that because you are not maximizing your equipment that way.