Bag Sales

[shazane]

How do you guys feel about bag sales?
Do you think its worth the discount?
Do you think your buying the fish in a vulnerable state from shipping?
Would it be better buying a fish after its adapted in a tank for a few days?
Is it better then buying a fish out of your LFS tanks?
Thanks!
Shane

[Parrothead]

You get what you pay for........., I wouldn't

[Steve McKay]

Dry goods,possibly.Fish,inverts and corals no.You need the animal to come directly to you so you can get it into quarantine as fast as possible.The LFS is better than mail order,you can visually see if it is healthy and it is indeed the fish you want.

[Parrothead]

That's what I said

[Steve McKay]

I was typing while you were posting,you must have been using both hands.

[shazane]

Thanks guys.

[shazane]

So bag sales ar a no go. How long would you guys want the lfs to have had the fish in their tanks for? say I special order a fish from my lfs, should I not pick it up for a few days and just have them hold it for me?
Thanks

[zhenya]

How do you guys feel about bag sales?
Do you think its worth the discount?
Do you think your buying the fish in a vulnerable state from shipping?
Would it be better buying a fish after its adapted in a tank for a few days?
Is it better then buying a fish out of your LFS tanks?
Thanks!
Shane

I'm a bit confused about your question. Are you asking if it is a good idea to buy fish that arrived to your LFS but haven't been put into their tanks? If so, I would say yes, get it in the bag and acclimate it yourself at home. Having said that, I would only do this if you have a quarantine tank at home set up, know how to acclimate fish that was shipped. That means carefully watching temperature and salinity and drip acclimating your fish. I do this almost exclusively if I have a chance to do so.
If you meant something else I apologize for wrong advice.

[metalhead]

I'm a bit confused about your question. Are you asking if it is a good idea to buy fish that arrived to your LFS but haven't been put into their tanks? If so, I would say yes, get it in the bag and acclimate it yourself at home. Having said that, I would only do this if you have a quarantine tank at home set up, know how to acclimate fish that was shipped. That means carefully watching temperature and salinity and drip acclimating your fish. I do this almost exclusively if I have a chance to do so.
If you meant something else I apologize for wrong advice.

^^x2 on that advise^^

I work right down the street from the LFS I order my livestock through... Their shipments come in every Wednesday and they call my cell when the truck rolls into the parking lot. Not there's anything wrong with their holding tanks per say, I just see no reason to acclimate the fish twice if you can do it once... Just my $.02

[Parrothead]

I misunderstood what he was referring to I think, if the fish just come to the store, and that's how you buy them, it wouldn't hurt, just make sure your acclimation process is top notch, special order oh yeah, get it and get it quick, please clarify exactly what you are looking at, and how much of a discount, thats got me confused, the mark up on alot of fish is incredilbe, so why would they offer a discount not to put it in there tanks, that's the part that has me confused

[shazane]

zhena and Metalhead thank you for clarifying you gave me the answer I was looking for. My LFS gets shipments in every Saturday and Has "bag sales." The discount is almost 50% which grabs my attention. My thinking exactly was why acclimate a fish twice but didnt know the potential for die off from shipping stress. I am currently setting up a quarintine tank and researching acclimation techniques so I think ill be ok.
Thanks guys

[Parrothead]

clarified my question, hell at 50% off, I'd jump on it too

[zhenya]

zhena and Metalhead thank you for clarifying you gave me the answer I was looking for. My LFS gets shipments in every Saturday and Has "bag sales." The discount is almost 50% which grabs my attention. My thinking exactly was why acclimate a fish twice but didnt know the potential for die off from shipping stress. I am currently setting up a quarintine tank and researching acclimation techniques so I think ill be ok.
Thanks guys

To learn about proper techniques for acclimating fish and quarantining them check out this sticky threads in our marine fish care forums, headed by Leebca.

Like this couple of threads could be very helpful:

It Was Acclimation, I know. . .

A Fish Quarantine Process

If you you are thinking of buying corals in the bags I would definitely go for it at 50% off, except I would ask to look at the coral through the bag at least if possible. Inspect labels if such exist to know at least what;s in the bag.

[shazane]

clarified my question, hell at 50% off, I'd jump on it too

Yea they had a chevron tang for $60, flame angel for $22 and a lot of other goodies.

zhenya thanks for those great links I will be sure to check them out. I didn't see corals on the bag sales :/ but I for sure am going to ask in the future.

Thanks

[Bloodydecks]

....the mark up on alot of fish is incredilbe, so why would they offer a discount not to put it in there tanks, that's the part that has me confused

Parrot, the reason they do this is to move the fish quick. Some stores will do this once or twice a month and (advertise to the customers. Such and such date and time, bag orders will arrive...place your order in advance or by from the box on arrival) They are called transship orders. They don't buy them from the local wholesalers..they buy them directly from the collectors, or the overseas shippers. They have to buy larger quantities to get the livestock at a very low price. The mark up in the long run is the same percentage wise, but since it cost less, the price is now less to the customer.

The draw back...these animals could have been in the bags for 24-72 hours...and may have been be sitting on the tarmac or cargo areas at the airport in cold or hot conditions....(even with heat packs)...SO acclimation (as you and others have stated) is critical. Even with proper acclimation, the mortality rate is normally much higher. Especially with soft corals.

The key is to test the pH, salinity, and temp of the water in the bag. Then take new salt water, and chemically lower the the pH to match the water in the bag, and match the temp and salinity... then transfer the fish or coral to the new water.....and do a drip acclimation.

If you just do a drip acclimation into the bag, with out changing the water, you do more harm to the fish.

Often the pH in the bag i less then 6.0. This due to the build up of Ammonia. But once the pH drops to less then 6.0, the Ammonia turns to Ammonium, which is less harmful to the fish. This why the fish can survive for so long in the bag. If you start the drip line into the bag, it will raise the pH, then the Ammonium will then become Ammonia......harming the fish. ANd the levels are usually off the scale.

If the pH in the bag is higher; then the fish is then sitting in Ammonia, either way, you should chemically match pH and other parameters and get the fish out of the bagged water, and into fresh new saltwater (with the same parameters) ASAP.

Most people will not go to this trouble, and the mortality rate is high, and they come back to the store and ask for a refund. This is one reason I personally never offered bag sales when i managed a store. If we brought in transshipped orders, it was after hours, and we spent hours acclimating the fish and corals...major pain in the ass. Because to the manpower cost, and mortality rate (the ones that arrived dead) we rarely offered killer deals. Just normal market pricing.


One other tidbit...even after the drip acclimation, we still had to put the fish and corals back into bags, and float them, because often due the time it takes to drip them, the temp in the acclimation bins were 4-8 degrees colder then the tank water.


I always hated transshipped orders.

Edit: you may or may not already know this. I was just writing about it for those that might find it helpful.

[MyNameIsJoe]

Damn...I would have never thought of that! Thanks for the awesome advice. Those bagged deals are mighty tempting. With your advice, I feel more at ease going after the deal.

[shazane]

Wow. Thats a lot of info to take in. Thanks for the advice but now I dont know if i want to buy from bag sales anymore. Seems safer to buy a fish already acclimated at the LFS. Hmmmm