Crushed Coral

[Chameleon Bob]

I’m writing this thread to basically say if you have crushed coral(CC) sand bed you could/not have nitrate problems. First off we all know that bits of food, fish poop and other small decaying objects can get in between the CC and cause problems. And if the sand bed was fine these objects could more then likely be picked up by current or a crab, snail, fish, etc… But either way you can have problems, but it’s all about prevention and testing the water.

With that said in my opinion and a few others opinions this how you do things to keep from having nitrate problems:

1. Water changes consistently at 2 weeks
2. Don’t over feed
3. Have the proper sand sifting clean-up crew: Turbo Snail, Nassarius Snail, Astraea Snail, Fighting Conch, Scarlet Reef Hermit Crab, Emerald Mithrax Crab
4. Diamond Goby (I’ve kept one for almost a year with no problems with the CC)
5. Tiger Tail Cucumber, Sand Sifting Star
6. Urchins (never had one to give advice on)

Like I said before it’s all about prevention and testing the water. If you let your tank go with either CC or Fine Sand you’ll have problems either way. If someone wants to add a sensible argument feel free. This thread is to say you can have Crushed Coral bed and not have problems not argue that you can’t and give no reasons.

Thanks,
Jason

[Parrothead]

The biggest problem I've had with cc bed is goo, poo, and all other oo's will settle down into the bottom layers of the cc bed, assuming you got a least and inch or better, now to prevent this you need to "stir" up the cc bed, basically cram a siphon done into it "all over the tank, not just the open areas, now if you are running say 100lbs of rock, how are you gonna clean the cc bed under your rock work???? also alot of your cuc cannot safely burrow into the cc to clean the bottom layer for you. Also there are some reef safe wrasses that alot of people want to keep that actually burrow into the sand to hide, sleep etc. they cannot do this with the cc without severely damaging themselves, just my experience and ho

[Chameleon Bob]

Thanks Robert,

You make some good points, I'm just trying to get the facts out there on this subject so maybe this forum can quit arguing over it. Also I've noticed on some tanks that between the glass and Crusher Coral theres algae building up. Do get this with fine sand beds?

[Parrothead]

Thanks Robert,

You make some good points, I'm just trying to get the facts out there on this subject so maybe this forum can quit arguing over it. Also I've noticed on some tanks that between the glass and Crusher Coral theres algae building up. Do get this with fine sand beds?

Yeah, it comes with both, but below the sand bed ain't gonna hurt anything, it's natural

[Parrothead]

Another point I forgot to add, was that another disadvantage to cc is as I said cleaning under rock work is a pain to near impossible. Also in order to keep it from becoming a nitrate factory you do have to clean all of it as mentioned, now again from exp. you can rinse that stuff till your arms fall off, and never ever get all the dust out of it, now everytime you clean it in the display tank, guess what?? That's right a mini dust storm where are those particles are gonna settle where ever the flow drops them, corals and such aren't gonna be thrilled about that.;);)

[Noitsacardigan]

Doesn't seem like you'd have too much of a problem with nitrate buildup under the rocks to begin with though... No particles are going to settle on that layer of sand and build up.

[Chameleon Bob]

That's a good point. but you would behind the rock which would be hard to get to. But like me I got just a thin layer behind my rock where my clean up crew can get to and stir it all up.

[Parrothead]

Doesn't seem like you'd have too much of a problem with nitrate buildup under the rocks to begin with though... No particles are going to settle on that layer of sand and build up.

Microscopic life forms, that are present in all tanks with any type of bed(sand or CC) do in fact travel under the bed to where ever the want, not all of these life forms are wanted or needed in a reef tank. So that is why I said you have to clean all, not just part of a cc bed in any tank. Alot of these life forms are why you see alot of people disliking the cc beds, additionally and I know I'm about to open up a can of worms here and will have to post proof, but sand offers a much larger by volume processing center for the elimination of nitrates in a fish tank than cc does. If you want you can look it up and save me the trouble.

But if called upon I will dig up the references

[Chameleon Bob]

Well Parrot with that said,
Now I got this straight from the agra-alive information. "Florida Crushed Coral - Grain Size 2.0 - 5.5 mm. Shells and shell fragments produce varied natural colors and void spaces for small macro fauna such as copepods" wouldn't these extra critters take care of these things? I think were on the right path on figuring this stuff out.:eek3:

[Parrothead]

Well Parrot with that said,
Now I got this straight from the agra-alive information. "Florida Crushed Coral - Grain Size 2.0 - 5.5 mm. Shells and shell fragments produce varied natural colors and void spaces for small macro fauna such as copepods" wouldn't these extra critters take care of these things? I think were on the right path on figuring this stuff out.:eek3:

Jason,

Check out this article, pay special attention to where he talks about particle size

Ron Shimek's Website...Deep Sand Beds

[Doodaa]

Wouldn't a crushed coral bed with excellent water flow, a good protein skimmer, and a different source for nitrogen export be so bad? As long as water quality is there...doesn't really matter.

[Steve McKay]

Ok,first let me say I'm not here to start a fight,I also think this thread was started because of a few statements I made.I'll just make this short and sweet.I've had both CC and sand,so I know what the real deal is.The scientific community isn't always right but I have not heard one qualified person talk about how CC is beneficial or a usable substrate.I could go on forever about how sand is better,what can you say about crushed coral.

[Doodaa]

Steve, I'd say your right...The only benefit is personal taste and more work

[Parrothead]

Steve, I'd say your right...The only benefit is personal taste and more work

Morning Doodaa,

I posted my thoughts and negative factors regarding a cc bed, then cited(linked) an article that explains why a sand bed is far more beneficial to a reef tank, vs. the cc bed. All my comments are factual, and I will stand by them, I remember back in the day when for a short time fludized sand filters where the rage, you notice the word "sand" as strange at it sounds a grain of sand has more surface area than a piece of crushed coral(reference provided link), they did not run cc in these fludized filters but sand because of the abundant surface are available with sand in the nitrifiction process. That being said, based on scentific studies and evidence a dsb is much more beneficial for a reeftank and the inhabitants that we accept responsibility for when we purchase and place them in our tanks. We must provide them with the best conditions available to us.

Doodaa, as you pointed out it is a matter of taste, but as we all know the less you bother your display tank, the more it is going to thrive, if more work is necessary on a tank due to having to clean the cc bed on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, your tank will be disturbed all that much more. And it will have some effect on the overall good health of the system.

For Jason's sake I'm not arguing, I am simply pointing out that 95% of all reef tanks, and fowlr tanks that I have seen in person, in other threads here, on other forums, in lfs's, and even large public aquariums, all have one thing in common, a DSB. Others run a bare bottom tank, but that is a whole differnt creature.

I'm on the side of a dsb for the following reasons: Health and well being of my tank, the added nitrification cap. of a dsb, and it is more pleasing and natural looking to "my" eyes.

Sorry for the long post, but I've received e-mails and some pms questioning my post and statements above, I hope this answered and clarified my position

[Chameleon Bob]

Thank you all for your info on this subject, it looks llike to me that theres an agreement on you can have a crushed coral bed if your willing to put the effort in keeping it maintained.

[Steve McKay]

Thank you all for your info on this subject, it looks llike to me that theres an agreement on you can have a crushed coral bed if your willing to put the effort in keeping it maintained.

Nobody including myself has said a person can't have CC.The reason I've been so adamant is because I want every bodies tank to be successful in the long term.

[zhenya]

Thank you all for your info on this subject, it looks llike to me that theres an agreement on you can have a crushed coral bed if your willing to put the effort in keeping it maintained.

Sure, I just don't get why you should work so hard at maintaining your reeftank when you can set it up for much easier life for yourself.

Of course you can have crushed coral bed, even as much as 4" in depth, but the work involved in maintaining it is too much for most folks. Plus, the life in such bed would be rather minimal. Most of the infauna needed for it to function as some sort of filtration device can not live in it.
If I would to give my opinion on it I would suggest that one have no other choice but to have crushed coral bed, keep it as shallow as possible 1-2 inches maximum. That should be easy to maintain during water exchanges.

[Doodaa]

Sure, I just don't get why you should work so hard at maintaining your reeftank when you can set it up for much easier life for yourself.

Nobody including myself has said a person can't have CC.The reason I've been so adamant is because I want every bodies tank to be successful in the long term.

I'm on the side of a dsb for the following reasons: Health and well being of my tank, the added nitrification cap. of a dsb, and it is more pleasing and natural looking to "my" eyes.

I can't agree more...Please don't get me wrong as advocating a crushed coral substrate.

This thread is to say you can have Crushed Coral bed and not have problems not argue that you can’t and give no reasons.

This statement is the reason I gave the responses I did.