Am I reintroducing Nitrate and Phosphate back to the tank by feeding CAULERPA?

[Ninong]

I'm surprised you can't find aragonite sand cheaper. I would think being fairly close to India you would be able to get something from there. Is there a trade dispute or nasty tariffs in between Thailand and India? Or is there no aragonite to be found in Asia? I'm not a geologist.

As far as I know, there is only one source of aragonite sand in the entire world and that's the one in the Bahamas operated by Marcona Ocean Industries. As far as I know, everybody (e.g., Carib-Sea, et al.) gets their aragonite sand from Marcona. I'm talking about the aragonite sand marketed in the marine aquarium hobby and aragonite sand sold to gigantic industrial conglomerates.

The other aragonite sand would be genuine live aragonite sand collected in the wild from tropical beaches near coral reefs. True live sand is usually expensive unless you live near an aragonite sand beach where it is legal to collect.

[tbalankura]

I somehow knew someone was gonna ask why my fish are so small from the 15 year old tank. Well first reason, none of my fish survived that long and new fishes had come and go along the way. Before I took out the old tank, there were 4-5 fishes left who have been with me for about 3 years ( I'll describe more below)

When i said i lost that old tank, I meant the lighting system was all rusty with the plastic top getting crispy and the silicones wearing out maiking leaks into my side filtration ... the readings for nitrite was off the charts due to the detrius collected in the 2" sandbed. I got Aips ann everywhere and this went on for about a year, when I was in Boston pursuing my MBA and the workers at home could only change the water as I told them to. A lot of things has gone wrong. As I came back to Bangkok, I was left with 2 clowns, 1 trigger 4", and a box fish 4-5".

My immediate action as I got back was to order a new tank and find those guys a new home. And I did, after cooking the rocks and running the system for a month++ i introduced the guys in and started to add the tangs, those are 1 purple tang, 1 yellow tang, 2 mini blue tangs, a Naso and and a Brown Tang. It began as a FOWLR project and the first few months seemed fine.

One day the trigger jumped out at night, and I lost him (his name was Todaro and had him for a few years) and then the brown tang got Ich, trying everything I could (this is where I first met reefland) somethings I really regret doing like dosing the tank with KickIch, feeding chopped garlic etc etc. I finally found Lee's post regarding Hyposalinity and gave it a try ... it was too late. So a friend came over and helped out by taking the fishes back to his nursery tank and treated them with medicine (i think he said it was copper). Knowing that I could not add copper in my tank, as I know its difficult to clean it out, my friend took care of them for a month. The one that lived remains in my current fish list.

After another 2 months watching just rocks in my tank, and letting the Ich die off, I wanted my fish back but my friend got emotionally attached to them so he wouldn't give em back .... claiming he added to the display tank (3meterx5 meter FOWLR) and could not catch them. So I moved on and got myself some new fish (and they are the ones still on the list). Suddenly one day, my friend said he had a leak in his tank and all fish must go !!! So here comes the old tangs back to my tank.

Anyways, I apologize for that long depressing story, I did do the best I could and now I'm settled with a lot of fish and (at this size) they are still happy.

Ninong, I gave the the vinegar shot to the aips last night ... it worked incredibly well. My mushrooms and daisy are doing fine and the aips are gone. Big applause for your suggestions !!!

I'm going to post a picture of my tank right after this, please have a look if your interested.

Thanks

Nond

(Nick was my other nickname as it was easy for my aussie friends to call during highschool FYI

[tbalankura]

Here's some picstures Sorry for the quality ... its my iphone ... i got a better camera Canon G10 ... will upload more shortly

[Parrothead]

I know I said I would not post in this thread again but after reviewing the above pictures, I had to.

If those tangs are actually the size he posted, esp. the blue hippo tangs, then his tank is nowhere near the 180 gallons that his posted dimensions indicate, and based on his story why he has all this fish in this tank, I have to stick with and say that his overcrowding is directly related to his nitrate issues, according to his story he also does not know the difference between nitrates and nitrites. And last but not least, that tank is brand new, I don't care if you clean daily, no tank is gonna look that clean and pristine. Sorry Ninong for disagreeing with you but his nitrate or nitrite issue is not just the lack of a sandbed, look at the pics. I think his nitrites are probably off the chart as he stated his tank sat fallow for 2 months, you and I both know you can't load a tank that fast........ To many fish...Sorry

[Ninong]

Nond,

I'm glad the vinegar method is working so well for you with the Aiptasia. It usually works fine provided you can reach the Aiptasia and provided you aren't trying to zap a dozen or more at once in a 20-gal nano tank.

Since you're in Bangkok, you might want to check out Siam Reef Club. Their website is in both Thai and English. That's the link to their International Forum, which is in English. Here is the link to their home page in Thai.

[Ninong]

If those tangs are actually the size he posted, esp. the blue hippo tangs, then his tank is nowhere near the 180 gallons that his posted dimensions indicate...

The tangs do appear to be somewhat larger than the stated dimensions; however, my eyesight isn't all that great. I will assume that he's talking about SL (standard length) and not TL (total length). Comparing the apparent size of his 2" SL foxface rabbitfish and his 3" SL sohal tang to his 1" sand bed, I would say that his reported sizes for his tangs are closer than you think. Perhaps the foxface is 2.5" SL and the sohal tang is 3.5" SL? Photography can sometime fool the eye.

The tank does appear to be 60" x 30" x 24" (187 gallons), as stated. He also has a 62-gallon refugium, which adds additional biological capacity to the system but does absolutely nothing for the issue of the number of fish, and specific requirements of the fish that are in his main display tank.

However, I would like to point out that Nick has stated from the very beginning that he knows that he has too many fish and he knows that he will have to deal with the issues presented by what I called his "tang navy" in the near future. In fact, he has repeated this in at least two additional posts. However, based on the photos of the tank, I will agree that the fish bioload is obviously a contributing factor to his nitrate problem.

He also stated that he kept a fish-only system for 15 years!

Based on the photos of the tank, I would say that it looks great! Congratulations, Nond!

...aaccording to his story he also does not know the difference between nitrates and nitrites.

You're going to have to quote the exact passage that makes you think that. I'm sure he knows the difference between nitrite and nitrate. I didn't see anything to make me believe that this is an issue.

And last but not least, that tank is brand new, I don't care if you clean daily, no tank is gonna look that clean and pristine.

Based on the appearance of the sand bed, I would have to say that the tank is at least several months old. It does not appear "brand new" to me but it does appear to be VERY well kept. Congratulations, Nond!

I think his nitrites are probably off the chart...

What do you mean by "off the chart?" I seriously doubt that his nitrite is any higher than 0.2 ppm. Just because his nitrate is 40 ppm doesn't mean that his nitrite is "off the charts." The tank is obviously cycled already. Just look at the corals. If the nitrite was really "off the charts," the corals wouldn't look the way they do.

In any case, Robert, you are correct that his fish bioload is a significant contributing factor to his nitrate problem. However, I think it's not nearly as large a factor as you seem to think. After all, we're talking about a 250-gal system here, not a little 55-gal or 75-gal tank. The fish issue is primarily one of having too many tangs and the wrong species of tangs for the dimensions of his main display aquarium. However, that's my personal opinion and there are quite a few others who don't share my views on the appropriate minimum tank size for tangs.

Since Nond has already said repeatedly that he realizes he has a tang problem, I will leave that issue to him to decide. He has made it clear that he's not seeking advice on what to do about his "tang navy." I think his tank looks very nice. I think it would look even nicer if he could increase the depth of his sand bed to at least 3".

[tbalankura]

Thank you Ninong for your tips ... I'm actually a member of siamreefclub.com and reefthailand.com ... I happened to enjoy reading reefland and the many post from GREAT authors ... including you


Dear Parrothead ... thanks to you too for your concern.
After some 15 - 16 years falling in love with marine aquariums and diving, I think I know the difference b/w ammonia nitrites and nitrates. My tank is about a year old and I spend my evenings cleaning them everyday .... its how I relax from work. Too bad I dont have the pics of how clean my refu is ... you'll be surprised.

Sorry if your tank looks dirty ... hope your fish and other stuff are happy in there

Nond

[Ninong]

Nond,

If you're a member of SRC, then you must know Chingchai Uekrongtham, the founder of SRC. I believe his board name on SRC is "low profile." His board name on Reef Central is "chingchai."

He is one of my favorite reefkeepers in the entire world! I'm sure you will agree.

Have you seen this video of his 1250-gal reef aquarium? That tank is less than a year old. Most of the corals came from his old 300-gal reef tank.

[tbalankura]

Ninong ... you are right again.

The fish in the pictures are somewhat larger than its actual size, especially the close up ones. My corals seem kind of big too haha ...

Well most important ... I'm glad I know what to do with my grape caulerpa ... nitrates and sand bed.

[tbalankura]

Nond,

If you're a member of SRC, then you must know Chingchai Uekrongtham, the founder of SRC. I believe his board name on SRC is "low profile." His board name on Reef Central is "chingchai."

He is one of my favorite reefkeepers in the entire world! I'm sure you will agree.

Have you seen this video of his 1250-gal reef aquarium? That tank is less than a year old. Most of the corals came from his old 300-gal reef tank.

Yes indeed Ninong ... he is a respected reef keeper here. His new tank was a talk of the town. I admire how he was able to run the new tank that fast and make it that beautiful

Have you gotten a chance to talk/Email to him? I'm sure he'd be very proud to know that you like his tanks. .... and i'm guessing you might not know this but the names Ninong and Leebca are pretty famous around here too !!!

[Ninong]

Have you gotten a chance to talk/Email to him? I'm sure he'd be very proud to know that you like his tanks. ....

I have commented in his threads on Reef Central ever since his previous reef tank was honored as Reef Central's Tank of the Month for May 2008: ตู้คนไทยในเวปเมืองนอก

I don't believe I was familiar with his tanks before May of 2008. However, I'm sure he knows who I am because we have posted back and forth in his threads on Reef Central.

I was not familiar with SRC before Chingchai's previous tank was chosen as TOTM on Reef Central; however, I used to visit many foreign reefkeeping bulletin boards even before Google Translate was invented just to look at the pictures of the reef aquariums in other countries. Some of the Japanese reef tanks are spectacular. I used to have links bookmarked but I lost all of them when my previous computer crashed about 15 months ago. I'm even registered as a member on some foreign boards but I rarely post unless they have an English language forum. There are some very nice reefkeeping bulletin boards in Japan, Hong Kong, France, Italy, Germany, Finland, Norway, the Netherlands, etc. I used to have links to all of them.

[tbalankura]

I have commented in his threads on Reef Central ever since his previous reef tank was honored as Reef Central's Tank of the Month for May 2008: ตู้คนไทยในเวปเมืองนอก

I don't believe I was familiar with his tanks before May of 2008. However, I'm sure he knows who I am because we have posted back and forth in his threads on Reef Central.

I was not familiar with SRC before Chingchai's previous tank was chosen as TOTM on Reef Central; however, I used to visit many foreign reefkeeping bulletin boards even before Google Translate was invented just to look at the pictures of the reef aquariums in other countries. Some of the Japanese reef tanks are spectacular. I used to have links bookmarked but I lost all of them when my previous computer crashed about 15 months ago. I'm even registered as a member on some foreign boards but I rarely post unless they have an English language forum. There are some very nice reefkeeping bulletin boards in Japan, Hong Kong, France, Italy, Germany, Finland, Norway, the Netherlands, etc. I used to have links to all of them.

That's awesome Ninong ... you're right about the Japanese tanks being spectacular ... they seem to get pretty neat at everything ... did you hear about the $60,000 USD worth of some 800 corals being seized in Bangkok the other day? Here's the news in English .... GLASSBOX DESIGN - Modern Reef Aquarium Blog

Bit worried that Thai authorities would probably have no idea what to do with the corals after they confiscate them ... sigh

Someone told me to get an Ozonizer (sander C100) and an Orp Controller (Pinpoint - American Marine) to help my skimmer work better ... I have no ideas on ozones ... is it worth it ... perhaps a UV sterilizer instead?

[Ninong]

... did you hear about the $60,000 USD worth of some 800 corals being seized in Bangkok the other day? Here's the news in English .... GLASSBOX DESIGN - Modern Reef Aquarium Blog

That sort of thing happens all the time all over the world. In fact, that's a rather small shipment: 300 kg (661 lbs) The $60,000 value is way too high, even for retail prices. That would work out to $700/piece because they're talking about a total of 858 pieces. Probably just some small-time wannabe importer who was trying to bring in stuff without proper permits. All of that stuff is covered by CITES.

Someone told me to get an Ozonizer (sander C100) and an Orp Controller (Pinpoint - American Marine) to help my skimmer work better ... I have no ideas on ozones ... is it worth it ... perhaps a UV sterilizer instead?

Personally, I would probably not use either ozone or UV sterilization on a tank as small as yours (250 gallons total system). Some people use that and other people don't for various reasons that we have discussed in detail in previous threads on this board both in this forum and in Lee's forum. However, I do know of some guys with really large systems (more than 500 gallons) who do employ both ozone and UV. They just want to utilize everthing possible to try to avoid potential problems with imported pathogens or parasites. You can go either way. It's definitely possible to operate a very successful huge system without either ozone or UV.

[tbalankura]

That sort of thing happens all the time all over the world. In fact, that's a rather small shipment: 300 kg (661 lbs) The $60,000 value is way too high, even for retail prices. That would work out to $700/piece because they're talking about a total of 858 pieces. Probably just some small-time wannabe importer who was trying to bring in stuff without proper permits. All of that stuff is covered by CITES.


Personally, I would probably not use either ozone or UV sterilization on a tank as small as yours (250 gallons total system). Some people use that and other people don't for various reasons that we have discussed in detail in previous threads on this board both in this forum and in Lee's forum. However, I do know of some guys with really large systems (more than 500 gallons) who do employ both ozone and UV. They just want to utilize everthing possible to try to avoid potential problems with imported pathogens or parasites. You can go either way. It's definitely possible to operate a very successful huge system without either ozone or UV.

I think you might have missed a digit Ninong ... its actually about $70 each

I personally haven't seen any shipments in one time this big before around here ... the custom dept are pretty strict around here and I would think Thailand is relatively, to the US, a much much smaller market.

Glad I don't have to spend on the ozone or UV ... now i can focus my capital on the aragonites and hopefully a new FOWLR tank for the growing tangs (Same size as Chingchai maybe? haha I guess not)

[Ninong]

I think you might have missed a digit Ninong ... its actually about $70 each

I must have missed the decimal point when I read the result in my calculator. LOL I told you my eyesight was bad. I had surgery on both eyes recently and don't have a new prescription for glasses yet.

[Parrothead]

Here is his statement about the "nitrites"

there were 4-5 fishes left who have been with me for about 3 years ( I'll describe more below)

When i said i lost that old tank, I meant the lighting system was all rusty with the plastic top getting crispy and the silicones wearing out maiking leaks into my side filtration ... the readings for nitrite was off the charts due to the detrius collected in the 2" sandbed.

Copied and pasted out of his post, after 3 years you are not gonna have nitrites off the chart, nitrates yes.

oh, and Nond, my tank isn't dirty, and yes my fish are very, very happy, also any particular reason you don't like coraline algea, I noticed there is not a spot anywhere on your glass........

[Ninong]

...any particular reason you don't like coraline algea, I noticed there is not a spot anywhere on your glass........

Why would anyone want coralline algae on their glass?

[Parrothead]

Why would anyone want coralline algae on their glass?

You and I both know alot of people who allow it to grow on the back glass, I do......

That wasn't the point I was trying to make, let me try again.

If his tank is 60 inches, that would put those blue tangs that are supposedly 1" at about 4" based on his pics. Can you seriously tell me based on his pictures that you could line up 60 of those blue tangs and in a straight line, connect the left and right side of the tank, If someone wants help they need to be completely honest....

[Ninong]

You and I both know alot of people who allow it to grow on the back glass, I do......

I know people who allow coralline algae to grow on their back glass but I have never before come across anyone questioning a new member about why he didn't have any coralline algae on the glass in his tank. However, that wasn't my question to you. I didn't ask if you knew anyone who allows coralline algae to grow on the glass in their tank, I asked "why would anyone want coralline algae on their glass?"

I don't understand why you are asking him about the lack of coralline algae on the glass in his tank.

[Steve McKay]

If you look at photo #2 in post #43,you will see a purple clam left front.The clam is half the size of the Blue Tang which is supposed to be 1",making the clam 1/2".I'll eat my socks if that clam isn't about 2".