I've heard of this before

[ErockU]

Well it's been an eventful week. I got some terrible advise from LFS about adding fish to a cycling tank and my salanity was low to boot. Well I've done and plan on continue to do some small water changes to bring the salanity up. The chromis although I guess there living in terrible conditions(ammn. levels) seem to be doing ok. They come right up front and center when the see me. I guess expecting food. I can't get enough of this site. I'm reading day and night. I do have a question again. I thought I seen a thread for it but now I can't find it. I'm noticing small white dots on my tank now. Can someone remind me what that could possibly be. Don't worry the dots are not on my first children the chromis. You all rock and I only hope to be as knowledgeable as you'll and have just as good as a tank. With time of course

[ErockU]

Got another question when someone feels like answering. I have live and base rock about 25 pounds total with more live to come as time goes on. What is the deal with removing the bio balls that I have seen posted a couple of times. I was told to never touch them per the not so good giving advise of LFS. I do in the long term have a plan for some soft corals and anemoies( sorry for the spelling). So do they stay or go and if they go what do I replace it with if anything

[blennydude]

What are your tank specs? Size, filter type, so on. Toss the bio balls in the trash, and don't take any advise from a lfs unless they have proven your trust. Wait until you have at least 6 months experience under your belt til you think about putting an anemone in the tank. They need a mature reef tank w/ correct lighting and very good water quality. They are not the easiest animal to keep alive. Unfortunatly every noobie wants a nem and clown right away and the nem dies within a month 99% of the time. Good luck on your tank.

[Steve McKay]

Welcome to Reefland.Don't worry about the white dots on your glass,the dots can be any number of things none of which are harmful.Unless you stick your hand in the tank in which case the white dots will eat the meat to the bone. If your going to add more rock soon it will continue your nitrogen cycle.Do not add anymore fish,it would be a good idea to remove the one you have until you have added all the rock you want and your tank has cycled.You should not be doing any water changes until your tank has cycled,take the fish back to the LFS and let your tank cycle.Bio-balls go in the trash.If you want an anemone wait at least four to six months if you want it to be happy.Then research the type of anemone you want and make sure your lighting will support it.You have already found out how the LFS are so don't believe a word of what they say,all they care about is selling you something anything.

[ToddTT]

Bio-balls go in the trash.

Is there a minimum amount of live rock required before doing this?

And would you toss them all at once, or remove some every week or two?

[Ninong]

I got some terrible advise from LFS about adding fish to a cycling tank...

You should always wait a few weeks after setting up a new aquarium before adding your first fish. This gives the tank time to complete the initial cycle but it also gives the microfauna that hitchhiked in on the live rock time to settle in and set up housekeeping. Any halfway decent live rock will have amphipods and copepods that came with it and these need some quiet time free of predation to multiply. If you put fish in the tank too soon, they will eat all these valuable little critters before they have time to increase their populations.

In an ideal world, you would wait three months after setting up the tank before adding your first fish. Not many people are that patient, but it would certainly be better to wait three months than just three days, which is what some LFS employees will tell you. I managed to wait five weeks after setting up my tank before adding the first fish and I started with fully-cured live rock.

LFS employees have been advising customers to "add a few damsels to your tank to cycle it" for the past twenty or thirty years. The only good that comes out of this advice is that it lets you know that the person telling you this is not a reliable source of information... about anything.

...and my salanity was low to boot. Well I've done and plan on continue to do some small water changes to bring the salanity up.

To raise your salinity, just use saltwater instead of freshwater for evaporation replacement.

I'm noticing small white dots on my tank now. Can someone remind me what that could possibly be.

Sure, but first you have to be VERY specific in your description. What size are these "small white dots?" Are they 1/16" across or closer to 1/8" across? A "small white dot" could be the size of a period or it could be 1/8" across... big difference. Are these "small white dots" uniformly round in appearance? Do you notice any pattern? For example, do they appear to be tiny spirals? Are they totally unmoving or have you noticed any of them moving around? Are they all the same shade of white?

[Ninong]

Got another question when someone feels like answering. I have live and base rock about 25 pounds total with more live to come as time goes on. What is the deal with removing the bio balls that I have seen posted a couple of times. I was told to never touch them per the not so good giving advise of LFS.

Bio-balls are part of a type of filtration system called "wet-dry" or "trickle filter." It was all the rage twenty-five years ago. In fact, it's still employed on some fish-only aquariums. As the name implies, the purpose of bio-balls is to provide a place for biological filtration -- a habitat for beneficial bacteria that can convert the harmful ammonia and nitrite into less harmful nitrate and perhaps even to completely harmless N2 gas.

However, ever since live rock was introduced into the hobby, there is no need for additional biological filtration. The live rock does what the bio-balls were designed to do and it does it better. And, if you have a decent sand bed, that too provides biological filtration.

The problem with bio-balls is that they are good at reducing ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate but not very good at converting nitrate into nitrogen gas. That's because that final step in the nitrogen cycle -- converting nitrate into nitrogen gas -- requires an environment of little to no oxygen. The water that flows over the bio-balls is very oxygenated because it's being pumped around by your return pump. Not only that, but in most trickle filters, there is a whole lot of air hitting the bio-balls if they're not fully submerged. That means that bio-balls are good at producing nitrate but not very good at getting rid of the nitrate they produced.

That final step in the nitrogen cycle, called denitrification, takes place deep inside live rock or deep inside a deep sand bed. Those are environments that are lacking in oxygen, exactly the sort of environment needed to convert nitrate into N2 -- harmless nitrogen gas, which then is released into the atmosphere where it forms 78% of the air we breathe.

If you're setting up a fish-only aquarium with nothing but artificial decorations (no live rock at all), then you would need something like a trickle-filter full of bio-balls. Those were the most common marine aquariums 25 years ago when LFS employees first started telling customers to "add a few damsels to cycle your tank" and they're still the most common aquariums LFS owners set up for a typical dentist's waiting room. Just take a look at some of the websites of some of the really high-end aquarium installation companies and most of what you will see in their gallery are pictures of very expensive fish-only aquariums with either dead coral skeletons or, more recently, artificial neon-colored corals. Those tanks -- which are horrible -- will have huge trickle filters under them.

Since you're setting up an aquarium with live rock, you don't need bio-balls in the sump. If the aquarium had been up and running for several months, you would be advised to gradually remove the bio-balls over a period of several weeks. However, since this is a brand new set-up, you could just go ahead and remove all of them all at once without doing any harm to your system.

[ErockU]

Ninong thanks so much for the advise. I'm getting greedy and need a little more help. Do I replace the bio balls with anything in the sump or just leave it empty. Should I wait until the cycle is over before removing them. One last question. I want to purchase some more cured live rock from the same lfs I purchased before. Can I add more now or should I wait until the cylce is over.

[cdearing]

So, I don't know how to direct you to this thread but I will try:

Tiny white specks on glass. Sand fleas?

This was when my tank was about 2 months old and I saw little white specks crawling on the glass. There are other links in the thread that you might find useful.

Cynthia

[Ninong]

Ninong thanks so much for the advise. I'm getting greedy and need a little more help. Do I replace the bio balls with anything in the sump or just leave it empty. Should I wait until the cycle is over before removing them. One last question. I want to purchase some more cured live rock from the same lfs I purchased before. Can I add more now or should I wait until the cylce is over.

I don't think you need to replace the bio-balls with anything in the sump. A lot depends on the design of your sump. With some trickle filters, it's difficult to remove the bio-balls without ending up with a lot of water noise because the water is designed to trickle down over the bio-balls. I would simply remove them and see how that works. You don't need to wait because your tank is brand new and all you have are a few chromis in there right now.

If you buy fully-cured live rock, you can go ahead and add it now. You don't have to wait, especially since your tank does not contain a lot of sensitive corals, etc. I would go ahead and get the extra live rock now.

[Steve McKay]

Is there a minimum amount of live rock required before doing this?

And would you toss them all at once, or remove some every week or two?

First of all there should be no fish in that tank it is still cycling.As far as a minimum amount of rock unless he has a 180g which I doubt,he has enough with 25lb. and more on the way.You are also forgetting about the substrate,whether it's crushed coral or sand it harbors bacteria too.The answer is yes I would toss all the bio-balls in the trash.

[gregr]

Welcome to the greatest hobby in the world
I don't know if you know how to tell if liverock is cured or not- if you do... ignore. If you don't-- you really have to get your nose close and smell the rock. Any sulphury smell at all means it is not cured! The rock should smell "clean", salty but clean.

[julesjt]

Got another question when someone feels like answering. I have live and base rock about 25 pounds total with more live to come as time goes on. What is the deal with removing the bio balls that I have seen posted a couple of times. I was told to never touch them per the not so good giving advise of LFS. I do in the long term have a plan for some soft corals and anemoies( sorry for the spelling). So do they stay or go and if they go what do I replace it with if anything

I had an issue and wanted to remove my bioballs because from this awesome site folks said they are a nitrate factory. From my experience with my old 90 gallon when I started to remove my bioballs I got a huge algae bloom from releasing the nitrates in the balls.

I think it is hard to avoid this so I would do it before a water change and plan on doing stages when removing the balls, plus it can shock the system.

I am doing a new tank and I am not starting or ever putting bioballs in my system.

[julesjt]

You should always wait a few weeks after setting up a new aquarium before adding your first fish. This gives the tank time to complete the initial cycle but it also gives the microfauna that hitchhiked in on the live rock time to settle in and set up housekeeping. Any halfway decent live rock will have amphipods and copepods that came with it and these need some quiet time free of predation to multiply. If you put fish in the tank too soon, they will eat all these valuable little critters before they have time to increase their populations.

In an ideal world, you would wait three months after setting up the tank before adding your first fish. Not many people are that patient, but it would certainly be better to wait three months than just three days, which is what some LFS employees will tell you. I managed to wait five weeks after setting up my tank before adding the first fish and I started with fully-cured live rock.

LFS employees have been advising customers to "add a few damsels to your tank to cycle it" for the past twenty or thirty years. The only good that comes out of this advice is that it lets you know that the person telling you this is not a reliable source of information... about anything.


To raise your salinity, just use saltwater instead of freshwater for evaporation replacement.


Sure, but first you have to be VERY specific in your description. What size are these "small white dots?" Are they 1/16" across or closer to 1/8" across? A "small white dot" could be the size of a period or it could be 1/8" across... big difference. Are these "small white dots" uniformly round in appearance? Do you notice any pattern? For example, do they appear to be tiny spirals? Are they totally unmoving or have you noticed any of them moving around? Are they all the same shade of white?

That is funny you said about the damsels that is exactly what they tell you. With my new tank I would never add those asshole fish. They do nothing but chase the expensive fish. My plan is to wait as long as I can and start with two clowns to buddy up.

[julesjt]

I have been too involved with this site, it is like facebook for me. Show some pictures of your tank.

[Parrothead]

I have been too involved with this site, it is like facebook for me. Show some pictures of your tank.

Jules,

2 good post there, remove the bio balls in stages, say a cup or two a week, gives the tank time to adjust, and as Jules said we need pics, it's sorta a requirement here. And we do have ways, we'll start here, post pics or he shoots