Early fish/coral questions on a nano tank

[punkroc701]

I am doing a 5 gallon reef tank and looking to add a couple fish. I just set up with my livesand and live rock last Friday, my LFS said I would want to wait 3 weeks befor adding any coral/fish. I understand depending on amonia levels and all it may take longer then that befor I can add anything to the tank to begin with, but I have questions on this whole process.

1. My LFS said they would test my water free of charge befor suggesting I add anything to my tank, other then amonia and silinaty what else is tested in the water and what can I use to test it myself?

2. Should I add my fish befor adding the coral?

3. I am looking to add a couple fish (3 or 4 at the most) a clown, a star, maybe a shrimp, and maybe a sea horse if I can find them. My question is I am looking to add one at a time to allow any amonia spike to pass befor adding another so I don't kill them off as fast as I add them (I am guessing that would be the correct way to look at it), what should I add first out of what I have listed and is 3 or 4 to much for a 5 gallon tank? If so is 2 ok and would a clown and a star be a good choice?

As always thank you all foryour help.

[returnofsid]

I hate to be the barer of bad news, but 1 fish, unless it's the tiniest species you can find, will be too much fish for a 5 gallon tank. IF you seriously want fish, you seriously need to consider a larger tank. I wouldn't put 4 fish in our 24 gallon Aquapod. Any Clownfish will be too much for a 5 gallon tank. You MIGHT possibly be able to get away with a single member of the Trimma Goby family. Even then, it's going to have to be one of the smallest species, such as Trimma cana or Trimma rubromaculatus. Even these fish, realistically need 10 gallons, for a single fish.

Also, even if you do go with a larger tank, mixing a seahorse with a reef tank is never a good idea. Most seahorses come from SUBtropical areas, and our reef tanks are too warm for them. This leads to bacterial problems, that quickly kill them. Seahorses also don't mix with most corals, which will sting them when they attempt to hitch to them. Also, Seahorses are very slow, deliberate feeders. Food has to come to them, so they don't do well with other fish in the tank.

[punkroc701]

So a star fish or even shrimp would be to much for a 5 gallon? That kinda hurts. LOL. I am looking to do a bigger tank eventually but I thought a small reef tank first then if it works out ok go to something bigger. Still a learning process for me you know. Anyway thanks for your help.

[punkroc701]

Oh and as for the seahorse it was a thought, didn't know much about them so I really appretiate the info on that.

[returnofsid]

So a star fish or even shrimp would be to much for a 5 gallon? That kinda hurts. LOL. I am looking to do a bigger tank eventually but I thought a small reef tank first then if it works out ok go to something bigger. Still a learning process for me you know. Anyway thanks for your help.

I wouldn't add any starfish, but you'd be fine with a couple inverts, such as Sexy Shrimp or other small species shrimp.

[punkroc701]

Ok so some shrimp are ok, good I'd like some other stuff then just coral. So should I still add them befor the coral?

[returnofsid]

It won't really be that important, which you add first. The important thing is to make sure that your tank is ready. You need to be testing your ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, to recognize your cycle, and to know when it's complete.

Other things to take into consideration are lighting, flow, skimming etc. What types of corals are you wanting to keep? What type of lighting do you plan to have?

[Steve McKay]

It is unwise to add any coral to a reef tank from one to three months after initial setup. This varies depending on your specific tank and the speed of cycling. During this time there can be dramatic swings of ammonia, nitrite, and pH. Calcium, carbonates, and other critical elements are also lacking at this point. After this time soft corals are generally the best animal to place in the tank first. You should have no more diatom algae or “local problematic” areas in the tank. Soft corals for the most part they are less susceptible to any small fluctuations that happen from here on out. They are a lot less dependent on calcium bicarbonate for skeletal growth and digestion. The nutrient pathways needed for the survival of soft corals is also usually establish by this point. The next step is probably adding corals referred to LPS (large polyp stonies). The best time to start adding these animals is after the tank has been set up for 5-7 months. Ideally you should have started to see small patches of coralline algae with a diameter of 3mm or more. The last corals should be the SPS (small polyp stonies). These require excellent water conditions and good advanced knowledge and experience. These are also some of the most rewarding and colorful corals in the world. It is well worth your time and money to wait 9-12 months before adding these animals. They need vary stable and specific conditions. When you start to see many patches of coralline algae larger than the size of a quarter it is a good biological sign that your tank may be ready for these corals.

[julesjt]

I am doing a 5 gallon reef tank and looking to add a couple fish. I just set up with my livesand and live rock last Friday, my LFS said I would want to wait 3 weeks befor adding any coral/fish. I understand depending on amonia levels and all it may take longer then that befor I can add anything to the tank to begin with, but I have questions on this whole process.

1. My LFS said they would test my water free of charge befor suggesting I add anything to my tank, other then amonia and silinaty what else is tested in the water and what can I use to test it myself?

2. Should I add my fish befor adding the coral?

3. I am looking to add a couple fish (3 or 4 at the most) a clown, a star, maybe a shrimp, and maybe a sea horse if I can find them. My question is I am looking to add one at a time to allow any amonia spike to pass befor adding another so I don't kill them off as fast as I add them (I am guessing that would be the correct way to look at it), what should I add first out of what I have listed and is 3 or 4 to much for a 5 gallon tank? If so is 2 ok and would a clown and a star be a good choice?

As always thank you all foryour help.

Punkroc,

Let me just tell you this, I started this hobby last year and I am already upgrading to a 180g tank from a 90g. (needless to say it was due to losing my tank to a winter storm)

Anyway it is a hobby of love or hate and the people that end up hating it didn't do the proper research. If you do this 5 gallon tank, I think you will hate it.

My advice to you would be save some money and setup a nicer size tank with the proper filtration. If you do that, you will love this hobby.

I am so into this hobby now...... my wife hates me

[punkroc701]

Thank you all for your inputs. I am still wanting to start with this 5 gallon but I am already looking into a bigger tank, this one I plan to build. After I get those 2 going I am looking to do an even bigger one (roughly 150 gallon give or take). I am adding a picture of my 5 gallon which has smaller rocks then I have seen in alot of reef tanks. I have also noticed some things growing on the rocks already. I have sponges that have gotten bigger since I set it up at well as something under a curved rock that is clear/white that resembles a FLOWER CORAL : Acropa cervicornis (sorry I cut and pasted this from another site) when it is closed and a cotton ball with long "tenticles" when open.It isn't hard though, it is soft. I have tried to get a good picture of it but can't yet or I'd post it on here too. Any ideas on that?

[punkroc701]

Sid,

I have been thinking about your questions, The lighting I have now is the incadesent light that came with the aquarium, I am looking for either a T5 light, but look like I am going with the Coralife 50/50 bulb. As for what kind of coral Iam looking to keep I am not sure. I go into my LFS and just look at what they have and before you asked it was what ever coughtmy attention at the time is what I was looking to get. Now I feel as if I should look into it more. They (the LFS) has been suggesting polyps, and mushrooms, but I see other stuff in thier tanks I like better but have no idea what they are called. I will do some research on it more and when I make up my mind I'll post some thoughts. As for doing the testing of the water, I am looking at a test kit, but since it seems I will be waiting some time before adding anything I am thinking no rush there. I need to research to see what readings would be good to add to it. I am looking into doing scarlet shrimp when my water levels out first and then when I get that cycles I should have an idea on what I want to add coral wise (by then I am guessing I'll know more about what I am doing, hopefully, as well as have a better idea on when I can add things).

[returnofsid]

Because of the size of your tank, I would strongly encourage you to check out Nano-Reef.com - The source for nano reef aquarium information It's a great forum and resource for anyone interested in Nano Tanks. You'll find me there, as returnofsid, also.

[punkroc701]

Thanks Sid. I will be on there soon under the same name as well. Any help I can get is welcome. Thanks again.

[blennydude]

Your sponge might be a pineapple sponge, they are common on LR's. The first thing I would get is a jet in there, I don't see one. I would suggest a Koralia nano, or a small jet w/ a revolving attachment. You are going to want to pay close attention to your temp once summer comes around. Hopefully your tank is not near a window and you have ac. A lot of nanos get whiped out b/c they get too warm. Good luck.

[Parrothead]

"I have been thinking about your questions, The lighting I have now is the incadesent light that came with the aquarium, I am looking for either a T5 light, but look like I am going with the Coralife 50/50 bulb."

If this is still an incadescent bulb, you are gonna have a major heat problem, especially with the closed lid system your pic shows, with a 5 gallon tank, factor in your rock and substrate you might in reality have about 3.5 gallons, with an incadescent bulb on a closed system, I'd willing to bet you'll see temps in the high 80's, not at all good for a reef tank. Or most fish for that matter.

[Chasman]

If you are committed to a 5gal tank, do yourself a huge favor and make an "auto top off" system. For about $50 in pieces parts it will greatly improve the stability of your tank. I put one on my 10gal quarantine tank and it made a world of difference. Tunze makes a nice 12 volt pump and you can buy a 12 volt float switch kit that has all the parts you need. Add a five gallon bucket, some tubing, and your done. You will find how to procedures all over the internet.

Chasman

[punkroc701]

Blenny,

Its on my desk a few feet from a window and I do have AC. I am not commited to leaving it where it is just yet. I am thinking of moving it to the other side of my desk even farther from the window.

Parrothead,

The 50/50 bulb is a screw in floresent light. My daughter has one in her freash water tank. It has the white light for heat and a blue light (can't remeber what that is for other then making her glow fish glow). I am looking into a thermometer as I just got my heater in today and don't want to boil everything.

Chasman,

I am only starting off with the 5 gallon, hoping to eventually go to a larger tank, but yes sticking to the 5 right now. The auto water feeder sounds cool but not sure its what I need just yet, I don't mind adding water every 3 to 4 days (what it takes now) but thanks for the suggestion, I may just have to look into that if I don't go bigger. This was mainly going to be a tank I built from scratch but both tanks I biult leaked so I got the 5 gallon to get the ball rolling. I plan to attemp building a larger tank soon but want to get this one going first.

As always thank you all for your help.

[Chasman]

If you are committed to the 5gal. Do the ATO. Just do it.

Chasman

[mpwolken]

I think you should do a 5 gallon display and get a 300 gallon sump.

Seriously, a five gallon (pico) reef could be extremely easy or extremely tough to keep. An ATO system is a must. I use a Tunze Osmolator which probably costs more than you want to spend on the entire system. Of course, you'll need something like a 150W metal halide to keep brightly colored coral in there, so there's another $200-$300. Since there's no room for a skimmer, you'll want to do water changes every other day. That would make having an RO/DI system would probably be a good idea. (I could go on like this all day).

My suggestion for a beginner's reef is to get an all-in-one nano (24 gallon or so), a couple of the new Koralia Evolution pumps, plenty of rock and very little livestock that requires very little feeding. No clams, no coral (only zoanthids and mushrooms/ricordea), no anemones, etc... This isn't me being harsh, but reef keeping requires quite a bit of research. The less you have to deal with at first, the better off you'll be.

A pre-developed system (I really like the red-sea systems) means that you have less decisions to make.
Lower light sessile invertebrates means that you will have no heat problems.
No stony corals means you'll have less problems with water chemistry.
Lower livestock load means less feeding and that means that you'll have no need for a high end skimmer.

[punkroc701]

MP,

I do not take anything you said harshly, in fact you pretty much explained what I have been getting from my LFS so far (polyps and mushrooms). I am looking into some peppermint shrimp and I'd like a scarlet shrimp but dont want to over do it. I just got rid of a couple of Glass Anemones so hopefully no more to come anytime soon. I actually found one guy at my LFS who has been a trimindous help with alot of this too. He evn suggests stuff the shop doesn't carry some times if he thinks it will help me out better then what that shop has (weather it be price wise or a need for my tank set up). That and all the help I have gotten here so far which is sometimes more then I can handle lol.