Is this sand too large? (w/pictures)

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I started my 93g cube with sugar fine sand. Afet about 4 weeks my tank was bare up front no matter what I did with my flow directionality and I still need to add more flow.
So on saturday I bought the sand below and added it to my tank. In the bare spots there is just ~1" of this new sand and the parts where the sugar sized sand drifted to there is ~2-3" of sugar sand and then ~1" of this new sand on top.
Good idea?
Bad idea?
I have a yellow coris wrasse and will be getting a fairy wrasse a swell and a yellow watchman goby, so they need to be able to burrow and clean it.

This sand is by Nature's Ocean crushed coral aragonite sand with grain size of 1.7-2.5mm.
If I changed sand I would most likely go to CaribSea Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand which is 1.0mm-2.0mm

[Ninong]

I think you will be okay. This stuff should be large enough to stay put. I wouldn't recommend this approach for a true deep sand bed (>3.5") but it should be fine for what you are doing with your tank.

Keep in mind that this stuff is not friendly to wrasses or any sand-sifting gobies. They do better with smaller particle sizes.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I think you will be okay. This stuff should be large enough to stay put. I wouldn't recommend this approach for a true deep sand bed (>3.5") but it should be fine for what you are doing with your tank.

Keep in mind that this stuff is not friendly to wrasses or any sand-sifting gobies. They do better with smaller particle sizes.

In that case I need to change it as I have one wrasse already and plan to get another and a gobie.
Is the CaribSea Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand @ 1.0mm-2.0mm good for them?

[Steve McKay]

I think your problem is just too much flow. I have a 5" DSB with good flow for SPS corals and my sand stay put for the most part and it is sugar sized Carib Sea Aragamax aragonite. My flow is 1500gph=42x.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I think your problem is just too much flow. I have a 5" DSB with good flow for SPS corals and my sand stay put for the most part and it is sugar sized Carib Sea Aragamax aragonite. My flow is 1500gph=42x.

I only have 2800gph or ~31x turnover, I need more flow for sps....
Tank is 30"x30"x24"h

[Steve McKay]

I only have 2800gph or ~31x turnover, I need more flow for sps....
Tank is 30"x30"x24"h

How many circulation pumps do you have? What are they? your pumps are too low or they are too few and too strong.

[Ninong]

In that case I need to change it as I have one wrasse already and plan to get another and a gobie.
Is the CaribSea Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand @ 1.0mm-2.0mm good for them?

Carib-Sea claims that it's okay but I think sugar-sized sand is better for wrasses and sand-sifting gobies. Most people who run into problems with sand blowing around in certain spots -- like the front of the tank up against the glass -- will just put some of the large stuff over the spots that won't stay still and leave most of the rest of the sand bed alone.

Fairy wrasses don't burrow into the sand bed at night like many other wrasses do. I had two that slept on top of the sand inside small caves at the bottom of the rock structure and two others that slept in spots inside the rock structure. The most that fairy wrasses will do with the sand bed is to move some of it around a little to make sort of a nest under the live rock that they can use as their sleeping spot. Either that or they will find a nice spot higher up in the rock structure that affords them the comfort and security they require. They exude a sort of mucous cocoon at night just before going to sleep. At least that's what they do in the wild and that's what mine did in the beginning anyway. I'm not sure they continued to do that later on because I never did see any evidence of that behavior after the first week or two.

Your present sand bed, as it is now, is not really a big deal with fairy wrasses but it wouldn't be the best surface for wrasses that actually do bury under the sand to sleep. As far as sand-sifting gobies are concerned, sugar-sized sand would be better for them in spite of what claims some of the sand vendors may make for their products.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

How many circulation pumps do you have? What are they? your pumps are too low or they are too few and too strong.

Until this summer when I can pick up more hours and buy a vortech or two:
1 - Koralia 1400
1 - Koralia 1050
1 - return is 350gph after head loss

Took this saturday evening after adding the new sand so it was cloudy.

[Steve McKay]

Ninong. My Six Line Wrasse still secretes a cocoon.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Carib-Sea claims that it's okay but I think sugar-sized sand is better for wrasses and sand-sifting gobies. Most people who run into problems with sand blowing around in certain spots -- like the front of the tank up against the glass -- will just put some of the large stuff over the spots that won't stay still and leave most of the rest of the sand bed alone.

Fairy wrasses don't burrow into the sand bed at night like many other wrasses do. I had two that slept on top of the sand inside small caves at the bottom of the rock structure and two others that slept in spots inside the rock structure. The most that fairy wrasses will do with the sand bed is to move some of it around a little to make sort of a nest under the live rock that they can use as their sleeping spot. Either that or they will find a nice spot higher up in the rock structure that affords them the comfort and security they require. They exude a sort of mucous cocoon at night just before going to sleep. At least that's what they do in the wild and that's what mine did in the beginning anyway. I'm not sure they continued to do that later on because I never did see any evidence of that behavior after the first week or two.

Your present sand bed, as it is now, is not really a big deal with fairy wrasses but it wouldn't be the best surface for wrasses that actually do bury under the sand to sleep. As far as sand-sifting gobies are concerned, sugar-sized sand would be better for them in spite of what claims some of the sand vendors may make for their products.

I actually chose the CaribSea stuff due to it being very popular. I actually did just add the new stuff in the front two corners where I was very bare, but it looked aweful next to the sugar with a line of demarcation....that is when I covered the rest. I tried shells and rubble in the spots originally and didn't like that non-uniform look either.

[Ninong]

Your tank looks brand new. I don't think you allowed enough time for the original sand to develop a nice bio-film to help it stay in place better. It's perfectly normal for a new sand bed to blow around a lot even with moderate water currents but it will get better after a few weeks. It just requires patience.

I don't how how big a job this would be but think about this. Remove all of the live rock and snails to a holding container with most of the water from the aquarium. Then try to remove most of the 'gravel' that you just added to the top of the sand bed. Now rearrange your sand bed so that most areas are just the sugar-sized stuff and only the problem areas have the 'gravel.' In those problem areas, you would have some sugar-sized sand but then you would put some of the 'gravel' on top of it.

I think what I'm trying to say is that if you had been more patient, your problems would have gone away without having to resort to this heavy-duty 'gravel' stuff.

Either way, because of the sort of sand bed you are interested in setting up, I don't think this stuff presents a major problem. It's just not the best stuff in the world for some wrasses but you're not going to get those wrasses anyway. It's definitely not the best stuff for sand-sifting gobies, so maybe you could just remove enough of it to clear up a lot of nice stuff for your gobies and get all of the 'gravel' stuff into areas that you think really need it.

All of that is up to you. Maybe you would prefer to just remove all of the heavy-duty stuff now? Whatever you decide, do it sooner rather than later. It's always easier to change your sand bed before you start filling up the tank with livestock and corals.

Good luck!

[Steve McKay]

Until this summer when I can pick up more hours and buy a vortech or two:
1 - Koralia 1400
1 - Koralia 1050
1 - return is 350gph after head loss

Took this saturday evening after adding the new sand so it was cloudy.

Your pumps are too strong as I thought. You might have water volume but your tank is only 30", my tank is 36"long and I use K2's=600gph. You might want to switch to K2's=600gph or even K1's=400gph and have three of them. If you were to put corals in with what you have now you would find it to be to much, remember you have volume but not length.

[Ninong]

My doctor has a 7-ft long, 210-gal reef aquarium in his office. He has a whole lot of circulation. I mean a lot, including two of the largest Tunze Streams. He started out with just sugar-sized sand, 4" deep, but he couldn't keep sand in one spot -- about 18" x 6" up against the front glass in the middle of the tank. So what he did was add about a 1/2" layer of 'gravel' on top of a couple of inches of sugar-sized sand in that one area. It looks like a rubble field or whatever, but at least it stays in place now. It's not all that bad. He said he just couldn't get the water currents to behave and that was the best he could do. He has more current in this tank than he does in his 210-gal reef at home. His problem with this office tank is that besides the two large Tunze Streams, he has a closed loop system and there are three returns coming through the back wall of the tank aimed straight for the front glass and this is an 84"x24"x24" tank. The return outlets are not adjustable.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Your tank looks brand new. I don't think you allowed enough time for the original sand to develop a nice bio-film to help it stay in place better. It's perfectly normal for a new sand bed to blow around a lot even with moderate water currents but it will get better after a few weeks. It just requires patience.

I don't how how big a job this would be but think about this. Remove all of the live rock and snails to a holding container with most of the water from the aquarium. Then try to remove most of the 'gravel' that you just added to the top of the sand bed. Now rearrange your sand bed so that most areas are just the sugar-sized stuff and only the problem areas have the 'gravel.' In those problem areas, you would have some sugar-sized sand but then you would put some of the 'gravel' on top of it.

I think what I'm trying to say is that if you had been more patient, your problems would have gone away without having to resort to this heavy-duty 'gravel' stuff.

Either way, because of the sort of sand bed you are interested in setting up, I don't think this stuff presents a major problem. It's just not the best stuff in the world for some wrasses but you're not going to get those wrasses anyway. It's definitely not the best stuff for sand-sifting gobies, so maybe you could just remove enough of it to clear up a lot of nice stuff for your gobies and get all of the 'gravel' stuff into areas that you think really need it.

All of that is up to you. Maybe you would prefer to just remove all of the heavy-duty stuff now? Whatever you decide, do it sooner rather than later. It's always easier to change your sand bed before you start filling up the tank with livestock and corals.

Good luck!

This tank is only about a month old now, but I transferred everyting from a previous tank.
I have three fish in there now, includign a yellow coris wrasse as I stated previously.
I just dont want to different distinct sized grains of sand in the tank, I want a blend.

[Steve McKay]

This tank is only about a month old now, but I transferred everyting from a previous tank.
I have three fish in there now, includign a yellow coris wrasse as I stated previously.
I just dont want to different distinct sized grains of sand in the tank, I want a blend.

Go with smaller circulation pumps and you'll be fine.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Your pumps are too strong as I thought. You might have water volume but your tank is only 30", my tank is 36"long and I use K2's=600gph. You might want to switch to K2's=600gph or even K1's=400gph and have three of them. If you were to put corals in with what you have now you would find it to be to much, remember you have volume but not length.

I have three LPS in ther already, two hammer corals and one enchino....they like it. The Koralia's are pointed up towards the surface, so they take no direct flow, but this causes the sand drifting. I suppose I could run 3-1050's but that is even more unatural looking.

[Steve McKay]

I have three LPS in ther already, two hammer corals and one enchino....they like it. The Koralia's are pointed up towards the surface, so they take no direct flow, but this causes the sand drifting. I suppose I could run 3-1050's but that is even more unatural looking.

What they are doing is hitting the front glass and the current is going down and pushing the sand towards the back. Am I correct.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

What they are doing is hitting the front glass and the current is going down and pushing the sand towards the back. Am I correct.

Exactly, unless I place them towards the bottom of the tank and aim upwards, but then I have to look at p.h.'s and their cords all the time which I don't want to do.
I needed to do a water change anyway today, so I took the opportunity to remove about 1/4 of the sand. I would have taken more but I didn't have enough new water to keep going.

[Steve McKay]

Exactly, unless I place them towards the bottom of the tank and aim upwards, but then I have to look at p.h.'s and their cords all the time which I don't want to do.
I needed to do a water change anyway today, so I took the opportunity to remove about 1/4 of the sand. I would have taken more but I didn't have enough new water to keep going.

As I see it you have three choices.

1. Get smaller circulation pumps.

2. Get circulation pumps like the VorTech MP10 which are adjustable from 200 to 1,500gph. The cord is on the outside and so is the motor which means less heat in the tank, although expensive.

3. Look at power cords, most of us do. It's part of life.

In time I would like to get two VorTech MP10's myself.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

As I see it you have three choices.

1. Get smaller circulation pumps.

2. Get circulation pumps like the VorTech MP10 which are adjustable from 200 to 1,500gph. The cord is on the outside and so is the motor which means less heat in the tank, although expensive.

3. Look at power cords, most of us do. It's part of life.

In time I would like to get two VorTech MP10's myself.

I hear ya on the Vortech's, but for now I think I will remove the large sand I added saturday, then even the sugar fine sand out and let it drift again and deal with some large stuff in the bare areas I suppose.

Is it just me or do I get more flow from ph's by banking the flow off glass? When it shoots simply into the water column I seem to get less overall flow throught the tank?