Salt mix: what you use now and why you changed?

[Chameleon Bob]

Hey Guys and Gals,
I'm kinda of interested in seeing what salt mix you guys use now and what you started with and why you changed. I started with Instant Ocean regular liked it just didn't have enough elements for reefing. I just switched to Oceanic powder mix and so far the only thing I don't like abot it is it turns water yellowish. Does anyone use this? what's Better in your opionion?

[Steve McKay]

There can only be one. Instant Ocean Reef Crystals.

[metalhead]

I'm using IO reef crystals and it seems to work well. I have heard good things about the Seachem mix too. Steve did a very good and thorough comparison a while back, can't remember if it had its own thread or if it was on his build thread though.

[Steve McKay]

so far the only thing I don't like abot it is it turns water yellowish. Does anyone use this?

Maybe you need carbon or your carbon placed in a better high flow location. I have used Instant Ocean and Instant Ocean Reef Crystals and I have never had my water turn yellow.

[Parrothead]

I had tried the oceanic mix myself once, thought I might save a few bucks, I wound up going back to IO then switched to IO Reef Crystals, I didn't like the oceanic, when I made the switch, I started having pH swings, not saying the salt did it, but that was the only change I had made in my tank, threw away what was left of the oceanic mix, and went back to IO/Reef Crystals, been happy ever since

[Chameleon Bob]

Maybe you need carbon or your carbon placed in a better high flow location. I have used Instant Ocean and Instant Ocean Reef Crystals and I have never had my water turn yellow.

I should of made this a bit clearer that the water is yellowish in the mixing container. With the IO I never had that problem. I was wondering about the Seachem myself but not heard of many people using it like reef crystals. Sounds like reef crystals it is from here on out, good thing I bought just a small amount of the oceanic.

[julesjt]

sounds like ****ty salt mix I also use IO Reef Crystals and really like it.

[Chasman]

Just to chime in, I use Tropic Marin Pro Reef. i find it easier to control at the mixing stage and nothing has died. Something to be said for that.

Chasman

[reeferguru]

Oceanic is a good salt in that it has a higher level of calcium in it and it dissolves easily. Haing said that however, most salts are made in the same facilities just with different names given to it(brand names)! For the most part they are fairly comporable. Kent, Brightwell Aquatics and Instant Oceans Reef Crystals contain higher trace minerals and vitamins, I believe, but come with a higher price tag.

[TheMarineGuy]

On my first and second tank i was using instant ocean regular salt mix....After doing my research i found it has a few less trace elements ,not as much calcium and vitamins,which get used up real quick otherwise...So i switched over to Instant Ocean,Reef Crystals Enriched Blend....So far after switching i have had no problems,and it dont burn you skin if you have contact with it unlike regular IO,which burns the hell outta my skin....

[zhenya]

Just to chime in, I use Tropic Marin Pro Reef. i find it easier to control at the mixing stage and nothing has died. Something to be said for that.

Chasman

I've tried just about all of the synthetic salt mixes in the 12 years I've been doing this and ended up going back to Reef Crystals. Tropic Marin was really good except for the alkalinity part...1.8meq/L is not what I want to pay 80 bucks for. Other than that it was really nice salt to work with. Mixed clean and left no residue in the container after aging, unlike other mixes.

I should of made this a bit clearer that the water is yellowish in the mixing container.

Most likely it is because of the binder that they use, probably some sort of clay product. Usually it is harmless but I rather dislike the fact that I need to worry about water clearing up. Check your container after it is dry for a while, you'll see that most salt mixes leave some sort of residue behind...

[Papa Doug]

Used IO regular for longer than I can remember. The last several years, added magnesium & calcium to the fresh water before salt mix. Levels have been perfect ever since.

Recently the store I was at offered a good deal on Seachem reef Salt. I have a friend who switched to it awile ago and just loved it, so thought what the heck. Made the first batch last week.

Tested levels,
Calcium @ 500ppm with both Elos & Salifert
Alkalinity @ 9dkh with Elos
Magnesium @ 1350 with Salifert.

Salt mixed very clean. 2 cups = 1.026

Others told me of high borate levels at one time but mentioned its much lower now.

[Ninong]

Others told me of high borate levels at one time but mentioned its much lower now.

You might want to test for that just to make sure. Salifert sells a reasonably priced boron test kit, just make sure to check the shelf-life date on the box before you buy it.

They are/were adding boric acid to it as a means of raising total alkalinity. The borate alkalinity increased the total alkalinity. That was a really dumb idea, so it's certainly a step in the right direction if they have discontinued that. Their boron was double NSW levels.

[Ninong]

Most likely it is because of the binder that they use, probably some sort of clay product. Usually it is harmless but I rather dislike the fact that I need to worry about water clearing up. Check your container after it is dry for a while, you'll see that most salt mixes leave some sort of residue behind...

I have found that you can avoid adding this clay binder to your tank if you place an airstone in the bottom center of the mixing container -- after the saltwater has been thoroughly mixed -- and then allow the airstone to stay there for the next 48 hours or more. I used a PVC elbow to hold the airstone in place. What will happen is that the clay residue will settle out around the bottom perimeter of the container. Then you siphon off the top 95% of the saltwater without disturbing the clay residue in the bottom of the container. In other words, I discarded the bottom one gallon of saltwater in the container.

I used a white Rubbermaid Brute container so that it was easy to see this residue after most of the water had been removed. It was a very light tan and it pretty much stayed put in the bottom of the mixing container until you were ready to clean out the container. It was easy to wash out because it doesn't really stick to the container. When mixing an 18-gallon batch of saltwater in a 20-gallon container, I ended up with about two tablespoons of this tan clay in the bottom. And yes, it is harmelss even if it ends up in your aquarium.

[Ninong]

Used IO regular for longer than I can remember. The last several years, added magnesium & calcium to the fresh water before salt mix. Levels have been perfect ever since.

Recently the store I was at offered a good deal on Seachem reef Salt. I have a friend who switched to it awile ago and just loved it, so thought what the heck. Made the first batch last week.

Tested levels,
Calcium @ 500ppm with both Elos & Salifert
Alkalinity @ 9dkh with Elos
Magnesium @ 1350 with Salifert.

Salt mixed very clean. 2 cups = 1.026

Others told me of high borate levels at one time but mentioned its much lower now.

Doug,

Apparently "others" were misinformed. Seachem still has an absurdly high level of boron -- more than three and a half times that of natural seawater. According to Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley, this level of boron has been proven toxic to certain copepods in laboratory studies.

NSW contains 4.5 ppm boron. According to Seachem's official site, their reef salt mix contains 16 ppm boron.

As far as I know, Seachem is the only manufacturer using this trick to raise alkalinity and pH. According to Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley, this is a very bad approach, and for that reason he does not recommend this product. He engaged the CEO of Seachem on this topic -- and the topic of the toxicity of their alumina-based phosphate sponge product -- in a thread on Reef Central several years back. Seachem's CEO (the son of the company's founder) did not disagree with the arguments put forth by Randy and promised to look into the matter but that was the last we ever heard from him. I don't believe he ever engaged in another thread in Reef Central's chemistry forum after that little encounter.

From Seachem's site:

NOTE: Depending on specific gravity, alkalinity should be about 4.0–5.0 meq/L, calcium should be between 380–430 mg/L, magnesium should be between 1200–1350 mg/L, and strontium should be 8–12 mg/L. Between water changes some elements may become depleted through utilization. Seachem offers a full line of reef supplements for restoring and maintaining many parameters, including (but not limited to) calcium, magnesium, strontium, iodide and alkalinity.

Seachem claims "alkalinity should be about 4.0–5.0 meq/L." NSW alkalinity is 2.5 meq/L (7 dKH). Most reefkeepers prefer to maintain alkalinity somewhere between 8-12 dKH (2.9-4.3 meq/L). I believe that anything above 12 dKH (4.3 meq/L) is unnecessary and anything above 14 dKH (5 meq/L) is NOT a good idea at all.

Seachem achieves that very high claimed alkalinity by increasing the boron in their salt mix to 3.5 times NSW levels! According to Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley, this is NOT a good approach at all. And don't forget that a lot of that claimed alkalinity is borate alkalinity and not carbonate alkalinity. I continue to be amazed at what some manufacturers will do to hype their products.

Seachem states "calcium should be between 380–430 mg/L, magnesium should be between 1200–1350 mg/L, and strontium should be 8–12 mg/L." All of those numbers are perfectly acceptable, although 430 ppm calcium would be better than 380 ppm calcium and 1350 ppm magnesium would be better than 1200 ppm. NSW strontium is ~8.1 ppm, so 8-12 ppm would be perfectly acceptable, but I wouldn't want to go nuts on Sr because this crap is TOXIC in excess. Seachem's claimed iodine is exactly NSW concentration, which is a good thing because this is another one of those elements that is TOXIC in excess.

For reference purposes, natural seawater contains approximately 411 ppm calcium, 1290 ppm magnesium, 8.1 ppm strontium and 0.064 ppm iodine (all forms). That's based on 3.5% (35 ppt) salinity, which would be perfectly natural. If the salinity is higher, the concentration of the various elements would be proportionately higher. You can review that chart and compare the NSW concentrations of the true "trace" elements against what you will find in ALL of the salt mixes. All of them contain much higher levels of most of the trace elements than are found in natural seawater. That's because they're present at higher levels as impurities in the components used to manufacture the salt mix.

Please note that natural seawater contains 1290 ppm Mg with 411 ppm Ca. If you divide 1290 by 411, you get 3.1. Therefore, if the calcium is 430 ppm, your magnesium should be 1333 ppm. If your calcium is 450 ppm, your magnesium should be 1395 ppm. The rule of thumb most experienced reef hobbyists use is that their magnesium should be three times their calcium. That's one of the few so-called rules of thumb that actually makes sense.

I'm not going to go through the list of elements Seachem has posted on their site because it's really the boron that I'm complaining about since that's what was raised in this thread. For that reason, I would not recommend this salt mix to anyone.

As far as the claims made by many, if not all, of the manufacturers that their salt mix contains "extra" trace elements, well, that's nothing more than advertising hype. To put it another way, it's complete BS! Virtually all of the "trace elements" are already contained in excess in every salt mix out there, so there's no need to add "extra trace elements." Most, if not all, of the true "trace" elements are toxic in excess. Everything in the ocean has evolved over millions of years to thrive in natural seawater, not some artificial crap that contains "extra" trace elements.

Ask them sometime exactly what they mean by "extra trace elements." Which "trace" elements are they talking about? And I don't know of any manufacturer who is adding "vitamins" to their salt mix. Does anyone have a link that we can follow online to a manufacturer's claim of including "vitamins" in their salt mix? Which vitamins? Where is the scientific evidence that these "vitamins" are beneficial to marine animals?

P.S. -- I forgot that Reef Crystals adds "extra vitamins" to their salt mix:

Reef Crystals contains essential ocean reef elements in concentrations greater than those found in natural sea water: - Extra Calcium to help ensure the growth of large and small polyp stony corals as well as coralline algae; - Extra Trace Elements to provide an additional measure of vital nutrients; - Extra Vitamins to ensure vigorous growth and survival of corals, anemones and other invertebrates in a captive environment; - Metal Detoxifier - to neutralize traces of heavy metal often present in domestic water supplies.

Just for the record, I have used and highly recommend using Selcon as a food additive, mainly for the Omega-3 HUFA, which has proven benefits. The vitamin B12 and vitamin C may be beneficial and certainly won't do any harm; however, most studies showing beneficial effects of these vitamins were done on humans. I wonder what "extra vitamins" are added to Reef Crystals and why? That's what I hate about virtually all the manufacturers. They never want to tell you what's in their products. By saying "extra vitamins," they imply that it's common practice to add vitamins to salt mixes and they're just adding "extra" vitamins, over and above the standard dose of vitamins that you could expect in other products. That's all a bunch of nonsense!!! I would love to know exactly which "vitamins" they're talking about and where they found the scientific studies to back up their claim that "extra vitamins" have to be added to the water column "to ensure vigorous growth and survival of corals, anemones and other invertebrates."

Most of the claims made by the various manufacturers were exaggerated and enhanced by their marketing department. Many of the products, such as Seachem's boron-heavy salt mix, were designed specifically to achieve certain marketing goals: something they thought would give them an edge in the marketplace.

Caveat emptor!


P.S. -- Here's something else that bugs me on Seachem's site:

2. Stir well to ensure a good mix. Although the Reef Salt™ solution may be used immediately, we suggest aerating the water until it achieves oxygen/carbon dioxide equilibrium.
3. Measure specific gravity. Recommended range is 1.020 – 1.025 at 24 C (75 F).
NOTE: 675 g of Reef Salt™ is formulated to create 20 liters (1.4 lbs per 5 US gallons) of saltwater at a specific gravity of 1.021.

Never use freshly mixed saltwater "immediately" except in the case of a real emergency. Always allow it to age at least 24 hours first, although three or four days would be much better. Fossa & Nilsen, in volume one of their excellent series, recommend allowing saltwater to age for one week before using it, and they have been doing this professionally for decades.

NSW has a salinity of 35 ppt (1.0264 SG) in the vicinity of tropical coral reefs. Why are salt mix manufacturers still recommending anything less than that? To even talk about 1.020 and 1.021 specific gravity for a reef aquarium is absurd! Most invertebrates require NSW levels of salinity to thrive. That's why some people can't keep host sea anemones alive for more than a year or two. And NSW salinity is even more important for sea stars!

Instead of recommending 1.020-1.025 specific gravity, they should be recommending 1.024-1.026 specific gravity for a reef aquarium. Don't forget that many of the animals we acquire for our reef aquariums were collected in the Red Sea or the Persian Gulf, where salinity ranges from 37-43 ppt.

Salinity in the Persian Gulf ranges from 36-41 ppt in the summer and from 37-43 ppt in the winter.

Average salinity in the Red Sea is 40 ppt.

Average salinity in the vicinity of Indo-Pacific coral reefs is 35 ppt (1.0264 SG) and this is the ideal salinity for a reef aquarium unless you are keeping a biotope-specific reef aquarium, such as a Red Sea-specific habitat. In that case it would be better to increase your salinity to around 37 ppt.

[Steve McKay]

Good info Ninong, we can always count on you.

[Ninong]

Good info Ninong, we can always count on you.

You may want to go back and re-read my post because, just like a congressman, I reserved the right to "revise and extend my remarks." Actually I didn't revise anything but I did add a lot of new stuff.

[Steve McKay]

You may want to go back and re-read my post because, just like a congressman, I reserved the right to "revise and extend my remarks." Actually I didn't revise anything but I did add a lot of new stuff.

Don't worry I'll keep my eye on you.

[Papa Doug]

Hi George,

As always, a fountain of information. So now what do I do with two full pails of SC. Perhaps I will mix it with IO or something. Should know better than to change after almost 20yrs. of IO success. And I use bulk additives, following Randys recipe for IO, so the cost of boosting calcium and magnesium is never much.

Even when all sps, my magnesium never dropped below 1400ppm with only additions to my new salt mix.

[Ninong]

Doug,

I believe you should be okay alternating Seachem and Instant Ocean. I don't recall any threads mentioning harmful interactions between those two salt mixes. In fact, the only threads I believe I have ever read concerning harmful interactions when changing between salt mixes involved Instant Ocean and Marine Enterprises Crystal Seas Bioassay Laboratory Formula salt mix. Many people posted bad experiences when making that switch although others did it with little or no problems.

I hate to mention that particular brand because that's the only brand I ever used and I never had any problems with it at all. However, I didn't switch from Instant Ocean to MEI Crystal Seas Bioassay. Crystal Seas Bioassay was the only salt mix I ever used and it's the salt mix used to perform very delicate larval survival tests at the EPA's biolab in Baton Rouge. Curiously, there are/were only two salt mixes specified in the federal specifications: Instant Ocean or MEI Crystal Seas Bioassay Formula. I happen to know that Baton Rouge uses Crystal Seas Bioassay Laboratory Formula for sensitive testing. You might remember that Dr. Ron published the results of some sea urchin larvae tests comparing Crystal Seas Bioassay Laboratory Formula against a few other brands, one of which was Instant Ocean. According to Dr. Ron, Crystal Seas Bioassay Laboratory Formula performed much, much better in those tests than Instant Ocean.

However, the results of those tests were instantly disputed by Instant Ocean. And, as one hobbyist posted, unless you're rearing sea urchin larvae, what's the big deal. And then there is the fact that Instant Ocean is used by more public aquariums than any other brand, as far as I know. As you probably know, Instant Ocean no longer uses EDTA as a chelating agent although they did use it in the past in spite of their claims to the contrary. Reef Crystals does include a chelating agent which they refuse to identify. It's probably EDTA, which is probably why they refuse to identify it.

P.S. -- On the other hand, Seachem is the ONLY salt mix that I recall Randy saying he would NOT recommend anyone using because of the "way it's made." So be guided by that, too. I think what Randy's really against is their boosting the boron as a means of raising alkalinity and stabilizing pH. Randy thinks that's a bad approach. If I recall correctly, boron at levels as low as 10 ppm were found to be toxic to certain copepods. I don't feel like searching RC for those old threads because they moved so many of the older threads off the board and into their archives. I remember most of what I read for several years anyway so I don't usually bother to look up stuff like that.