Another bubble tip anemone thread

[ChemGuy]

I just got this one a few days ago from a LFS . Not having a lot of confidence in the LFS I thought I would run this by everyone.
Is this really a BTA?
How does it look good /bad?
I have two clowns in the tank they do not go near it????
Any thoughts?
Not sure if you can tell by the pic but each tentacle has a purple dot on the tip.
Thanks in Advance
Vin

[Ninong]

Is this really a BTA?

No.

It appears to be Heteractis crispa. Do you see any verrucae on its column?

How does it look good /bad?

It looks like it has expelled most of its zooxanthellae. There are no white host anemones, none at all. A healthy anemone will exhibit coloration, even if that coloration is a light beige or tan.

I have two clowns in the tank they do not go near it????
Any thoughts?

You shouldn't buy an anemone that you expect to act as a host for your clownfish without knowing in advance if it is a natural host for your species of clownfish. If you will post which species of clownfish you have, I can tell you which anemones are its natural hosts.

If you try to pair up clownfish with an anemone that is not a natural host, they will sometimes accept it but oftentimes not.

[ChemGuy]

My clowns are A.Percula.
Any chance I can nurse this back to good health?
The LFS has like 4-5 more just like this one.
All labeled as BTA. Was told white is it's normal color.
(Sigh)

[Ninong]

My clowns are A.Percula.

H. crispa is a natural host for A. percula but not A. ocellaris. Entacmaea quadricolor is not a natural host for either A. percula or A. ocellaris; however, it us usually accepted as a surrogate host by A. ocellaris and sometimes by A. percula.

Did you check to see if there are verrucae on its column?

Any chance I can nurse this back to good health?

Yes. Just provide it with adequate light and feed it at least once a week, maybe twice a week. I suggest you read this article: Be a Host to Your Anemone, by Dr. Ron Shimek.

The LFS has like 4-5 more just like this one.
All labeled as BTA. Was told white is it's normal color.
(Sigh)

One of the LFS in my neck of the woods routinely offers "sebae clowns" next to a tank labeled "sebae anemones." I pointed out to the employee, and finally to the owner of the store, that their "sebae clowns" were definitely not A. sebae clowns. They were A. clarkii clowns. They insisted that they were sebae clowns. I resorted to showing them photographs of sebae clowns and photographs of Clark's clowns in a book on their own bookshelf. It's very easy to tell them apart.

The owner of the store then replied, "Well, everybody calls them 'sebae' clowns; nobody calls them Clark's clowns." That was his defense. I asked him what he called his Clark's clowns. He said he's never stocked Clark's clowns, just "sebae clowns" to go with his sebae anemones. Another point he wanted to make is that his "sebae" clowns accept his sebae anemones. I told him that if they truly were sebae clowns, they wouldn't accept his sebae anemones; but since they're really Clark's clowns and since Clark's clowns accept all ten clownfish-hosting sea anemones, he's in luck.

About that time I realized that the stupid was getting a little too deep for me to deal with.

[ChemGuy]

Reasonably sure I have A. Percula and not A. Ocellaris. Orange with three white bands with heavy black outline.
I put the anemone in the best light I could find in my tank. It stayed right there and took hold.
I will start feeding it .
I have not been able to see the column . It stays pretty much as you see it in the pic sometimes a little bigger sometimes a bit smaller. It never really folds up.
What would it mean if it has or has not verrucaeon it's column?
and Thanks

[Ninong]

What would it mean if it has or has not verrucaeon it's column?

Of the ten clownfish-hosting sea anemones, only one of them, Entacmaea quadricolor (BTA), has no verrucae. The other nine all have verrucae. The verrucae on the column of the sebae anemone (Heteractis crispa) are sticky.

However, you don't have to bother looking right now. I am really positive that your anemone is not a BTA and just as positive that it is a sebae anemone (Heteractis crispa). I really hate using common names because they change with the wind. At least there's only one anemone that is called BTA (bubble-tip anemone) but there are two different species that are called sebae anemones. When most people say sebae anemone, they mean H. crispa and, apparently, when your LFS says BTA, they really mean sebae (H. crispa).

You might point out to your LFS that they're the laughing stock of the board this evening but at least they gave us something to laugh at. Tell them the anemones they are selling as BTAs are really sebae anemones. And tell them that just because they came in bleached doesn't mean that's their natural color. There are no natural white sebae anemones, or BTA anemones. They're white because they expelled most of their zooxanthellae due to shock, stress, poor handling, inadequate lighting, shipping and handling and bouncing around between water with less than ideal salinity and other parameters. It's a miracle they're still alive.

Anyway, tell them their BTAs are not BTAs and they should be ashamed of themselves for being so ill-informed. And if the wholesaler sold them to them as BTAs, then tell them they were suckers to believe him.

P.S. -- I forgot to ask you about your tank. What size is it? What lighting do you have? Are you maintaining normal reef-aquarium water parameters, including natural salinity? Natural salinity is 35 ppt (1.0264 SG).

[ChemGuy]

Thanks Ninong I will tell them next time I'm there. They will want to argue about it.
However I will go by this old saying.
" Never argue with an idiot . They will just pull you down to their level and beat you with experience."
I will do the best I can for this anemone and hope it gets better.
I have a 90 gal tank , T5 lighting, and normal reef-aquarium water parameters.

[Ninong]

Your T5 lighting should be adequate for your sebae anemone. Salinity is one of the most important parameters. It should be at least 34 ppt, but preferably 35 ppt.

If you feed it at least once a week, perhaps twice a week, it might make it. It may regain some color. It's possible, especially if you have other zooxanthellate arnimals (corals, etc.) in your tank. A good sign would be if it turns from white to yellowish-white or light tan.

[ChemGuy]

Found this while doing some research. Some of the common names seem messed up but the scientific names seem ok . Just thought it might be useful to some folks.
Clownfish Anemone Compatibility Chart

Vin

[Parrothead]

Morning Vin,

Good Luck with the ane. like Ninong said, just keep your water really, really, really good, thats a big requirement when it comes to ane.

[zhenya]

Hi Vin,

I agree with Ninong that this anemone most likely is Heteractis crispa.
If it is any cancelation, most of this animals come in in the same state as yours. I yet to see one offered for sale that isn't completely bleached. If the store is in decent shape and has good emplyees/owner they usually start to color up if placed in good holding aquariums. Usually takes two to three weeks for color to start changing back to usual tan color. To recover completely it may take up to few month.
Mine was totally bleached as well and with good feeding and lighting it recovered completely and grew to well over a foot in diameter.
I fed mine with silversides but it may accept shrimp/krill as well, just experiment what type of food it prefers and stick with it.
As far as location for it, it actually prefers sandy substrate close to the rocks. It will literally dig a hole in the sand and attach to the rock under it.

Here's what it's color should be like.


And in this picture you can see where it loved to live. If I had larger than 75g aquarium I would never had given it up.

[Ninong]

Found this while doing some research. Some of the common names seem messed up but the scientific names seem ok . Just thought it might be useful to some folks.
Clownfish Anemone Compatibility Chart

Vin

Vin,

One point I would like to make about the "Clownfish Anemone Compatibility Chart" you linked is that it was compiled by hobbyists on a bulletin board that was started in 2007 by a reefkeeping hobbyist who entered the reef aquarium hobby in 2004. Therefore, while I'm sure their efforts are noble, it helps to keep this in mind when comparing that information with the scientific literature.

When I say, "scientific literature," I'm talking about people who have spent their lives studying anemonefishes and their host anemones and have published their findings in peer-reviewed journals. By the way, it's only Amphiprion ocellaris and A. percula that are properly referred to as clownfishes or clown anemonefishes. The rest are more properly called anemonefishes. I'm just throwing this in here because most of us refer to all of them as clownfishes.

That seems to be the convention in the U.S., just as we refer to all surgeonfishes as tangs. This is not the convention in most other countries -- another reason to use scientific names whenever possible. I try to use one of the more popular American English common names along with the binomial scientific name whenever I can. That helps readers who are not familiar with American English who may be reading this via Google. All of our posts are linked to Google within minutes after we post them. Just something to keep in mind.

Keep in mind that Reefland is just another hobbyist bulletin board, too. That being said, let's take a look at that chart posted on that other site. They list only eight of the ten clownfish-hosting sea anemones. They forgot Stichodactyla mertensii and Heteractis aurora, both of which are occasionally available in the trade.

Their chart was based on anecdotal reports from their members. They failed to make any distinction between what may have happened in one person's home aquarium and what is found in nature. This is important because the natural associations are very strong, extremely strong. You might even say that they are hard-wired from birth. The larvae of each clownfish species already know which anemone species they need to find when they settle out from the plankton. It's not something that is learned. After all, there are no parent clownfish around to teach them.

For example, whenever I talk about whether a BTA (Entacmaea quadricolor) will be a suitable host for the two most commonly-available clownfish species, (A. ocellaris and A. percula), I always say that it is not a natural host to either species, but in captivity, A. ocellaris will usually accept it as a surrogate host and A. percula will only sometimes accept it. I think it's important to make that distinction. It's something to keep in mind when shopping for either an anemone or clownfish, assuming you expect to add one or the other later on.

In that chart, they list Premnas biaculeatus (maroon clownfish) with the first four anemones on their list. While it may be true that some hobbyists have had success with maroon clownfish accepting some of those anemones as a surrogate host, the fact is that in nature it has only one natural host: Entacmaea quadricolor (BTA). Therefore, anyone with maroon clownfish should always consider a BTA when looking for a host anemone. It's that fish's only natural host and it's the easiest anemone to care for by a beginning hobbyist.

That chart is far from complete, but to be fair, they're not claiming that it is complete. They ask their members to let them know if they have an anemone-clownfish relationship that is not listed so that they can add it to their list.

There's no sense in going through all eight of the anemones they listed but, as an example, for E. quadricolor, they list only six clownfish species. According to Dr. Daphne Fautin's research on this subject, there are 13 clownfish species that are known to associate with this anemone in nature: A. akindynos, A. allardi, A. bicinctus, A. chrysopterus, A. clarkii, A. ephippium, A. frenatus, A. mccullochi, A. melanopus (primarily clustered form), A. omanensis, A. rubrocinctus, A. tricinctus, Premnas (solitary form only).

One other point I will make using that chart as a good example concerns the confusion rampant in common names. I believe when most hobbyists say, "sebae anemone," they're talking about Heteractis crispa. In fact, I'm just about certain that in this country, at least, when most of us say, "sebae anemone," that's the anemone we're talking about. However, when they say, "sebae anemone," they're talking about only Heteractis malu.

One good source of accurate information on the natural clownfish-anemone associations is Field Guide to Anemone Fishes and Their Host Sea Anemones by Dr. Daphne G. Fautin and Dr. Gerald R. Allen. They're both experts in this field.

[ChemGuy]

I realize the chart was not complete but it is easy to use without reading whole articles .
I'm wondering if there is a complete chart out there someplace.
A good accurate quick reference is always good.
On another note the Anemone moved last night from a high light area to a lower light area and lower in the tank. Not on the sand yet but close. I'm a little puzzled why it would move to a lower light spot.
It is anchored pretty good I checked just to make sure it's not just blowing around the tank.
Vin

[Ninong]

I realize the chart was not complete but it is easy to use without reading whole articles .
I'm wondering if there is a complete chart out there someplace.

Yes, there is. I linked to it in the very last paragraph of my post above. If you click on any anemone, Dr. Fautin lists all of its identifying characteristics and all of the clownfish species that it hosts. If you click on any particular species of clownfish, she lists its host anemone(s). Most clownfish have more than one host anemone but Premnas biaculeatus (maroon clownfish) has only one natural host.

Those are the only known natural clownfish-host anemone relationships. When you put any animal in a very confined, unnatural environment, such as a tiny glass box, it will sometimes change its natural behavior. However, these changes are unpredictable. For example, we know from anecdotal reports from hobbyists that Amphiprion ocellaris will usually accept Entacmaea quadricolor as a surrogate host in captivity. That doesn't mean that your A. ocellaris will accept your E. quadricolor and, assuming it does, there is no telling how long it will take. It could be a matter of a few days or it could take a few months... or never. And we know from anecdotal reports that A. percula usually rejects E. quadricolor in captivity. However, when it does happen that someone's percula clown accepted their E. quad, we will be sure to hear about it because they will usually post pics on the board. However, most surveys indicate that percula clowns are more likely to reject an E. quad. Your percula may accept it or maybe it won't. It probably won't.

All of the anecdotal reports are just that, anecdotal. For example, in the chart you linked, there is no telling how many people contributed to that chart. Based on what they say, it appears that if even one person's clownfish accepted a particular anemone, they will add that to their chart. That says nothing about how likely it is that other clownfish of the same species will accept that species of anemone.

It is much, much better to stick with natural associations. There is a strong chemical bond between the various clownfish species and their natural host anemones. This bond is stronger in clownfish that have few hosts and weaker in clownfish that have several hosts. For example, Clark's clownfish accepts all ten of the host anemones, so it has no need for a strong attraction to a particular anemone species. Clownfish larvae are attracted to their host anemone species and go to that particular species even if there are other species of anemones in the immediate area. This has been demonstrated in controlled in situ experiments.

A good accurate quick reference is always good.

There are several sites, especially vendor sites, that offer such charts. They are not all the same because many of them include associations that are not natural and many of them are incomplete. In the case of the charts you will find on vendor sites, they are likely to contain just about every association that they can claim might be possible. After all, they're in the business of selling stuff.

There are several hobby-level books on this topic. One that I like to recommend is Joyce Wilkerson's Clownfishes. She includes all of the natural associations and also tells you which clownfish may accept other host anemones in captivity and what your chances are that this will actually happen. She even tells you which corals are likely to be accepted as a surrogate host and warns you that clownfish are so attracted to flowerpot corals (Goniopora and Alveopora species) that they may prefer those over a perfectly acceptable anemone in the same tank.

Her book was written several years ago but it's still revelant today. She consulted with the experts, such as Dr. Fautin and Dr. Allen, when she did her research for her book. She's a hobbyist, not a fish expert; however, her works are well respected. She wrote articles that were published 14 or 15 years ago on hobby topics.

On another note the Anemone moved last night from a high light area to a lower light area and lower in the tank. Not on the sand yet but close. I'm a little puzzled why it would move to a lower light spot.

An anemone will move if it is unhappy with its present location. Why it is unhappy is what should concern us. Possible reasons include: it doesn't like the lighting, it doesn't like the water flow, it doesn't like the substrate it is attached to, it doesn't like the neighbors, it doesn't like the water, etc. It has no brain, so it has no clue that moving around in the tank will not change the water. For instance, if the salinity is unnaturally low, the anemone doesn't realize that moving around won't help it any. After all, it has never encountered that situation in its natural environment.

In any case, it's always best to allow the anemone to move and then try to figure out why it's unhappy with its previous location. Hopefully it will set up housekeeping in a spot that you can view from the front pane. If it decides it likes a spot that you don't like, then that's when you have to figure out a way to compromise with it. There are all sorts of ways to encourage an anemone to move away from a spot that you don't want it to occupy but hopefully that won't be necessary.

A main concern for hobbyists who add a new anemone to a tank that already has a large number of corals is that when the anemone wanders around, it will damage anything it comes across. Most anemones like to do their moving at night. That's why it's very important that there are no hazards that might prove harmful to the anemone, such as powerhead intakes, etc. E. quads, in particular, are known to get into trouble at night. Your anemone is not an E. quad but it might still move around some until it finds a spot it likes.

Go back to Post #11 and look at the pics zhenya posted. That's what your anemone should look like when it grows up. That's the color it should have, not the bleached out white that it has now. Notice in both of zhenya's pics that you can even see the verrucae on the anemone's column. That's a healthy Heteractis crispa. If your anemone is actually an Entacmaea quadricolor, then I don't know if it will recover from such severe bleaching. From the one photo that you posted, it appears to be H. crispa. You can confirm that one way or the other if you can examine the column. If the column is perfectly smooth with no verrucae anywhere to be found, then it's an E. quad. If you find any verrucae at all, it's not an E. quad.

[berkdog]

Two things:

-That might be a BTA, but like others said, it doesn't appear to be one. It's hard to tell because of the strong bleaching and lack of color. But BTAs do not always have lots of "bubbles" as you will read.

-Do not expect your fish to host an anemone. Even if you have the fish's natural host, not all fish (especially fish born and raised outside of their natural environment) will host it. Moreover, there is no definite time-frame in which you are guaranteed a fish will host an anemone. A fish may wait seconds, days, months, years (you get the point) before finding home in a specific anemone. There's no telling when, or if. Also be careful that some anemone fish will try to host other things (such as corals or other anemones) that can cause them harm, so read up and make sure you can identify what you have in your tank.

[ChemGuy]

Update on my anemone.
Well it's been 2-3 weeks and the anemone is doing fine , at least I think it is.
I have been feeding it every 3rd. or 4th. day with silver sides. It quickly takes them in .
It looks good in that the 'fingers" not sure what they are called look plump and move well.
Still no color . How long before it colors up assuming I'm doing things correctly.
Thanks
Vin

[Ninong]

Usually there is a small amount of zooxanthellae left in an anemone that appears bleached. With adequate lighting, decent water current, good water parameters and regular feeding, those zooxanthellae will multiply and the anemone should color up within six months. It can also acquire zooxanthellae from the water column, assuming there are appropriate free-floating zooxanthellae (Symbiodinium) in the water column.

Zooxanthellae are single-celled dinoflagellates and in tropical coral reefs they can be found free-floating in the water column. There are several different species of zooxanthellae. You need the species that associates with your anemone.

Chances are good that your anemone will color up within the next six months. Just look at the pictures zhenya posted of his healthy Heteractis crispa. It was bleached when he bought it.

[ChemGuy]

Just saw this online makes me crazy.

White Sebae Anemone-Medium - Fish.com

[ChemGuy]

Updating my anemone
I noticed today that the tentacles now have what looks like a colored line
running up through the middle of each tentacle.
Hoping this is a good sign.?

[ChemGuy]

Yes ? No ??