Fish feeding advice

[Leetch]

Well another noob questions from Uncle Nobb (yeah that's me).

I've been having water clarity issues and have been trying to figure out why. Even if I do a water change, it still stays milky. One of the thoughts is that I'm overfeeding but we will get to that in a second.

Here's the tank set up.
29 gal, T5 96 watt system with 2 10k and 2 50/50's, AquaC Remora skimmer (only been running for about 4 days now), and Aquaclear HOB filter (rated for 50 gal tank). I have 2 pumps (rated for 30 gal tank each - can't remember name brand) on each side of the tank to give flow and as far as I can tell, no real dead spots.

Population: I have 2 clowns, 1 tailspot blenny and 2 firefish. Clen up crew is 4 blue legged crabs, 2 scarlet crabs, 2 turbo snails, 4 nassers (I know I need more), and 4 troch snails.

So the water has a nice milky color to it and has for weeks now. I was hoping it would go away with my weekly water changes and I've even stepped up to 50% changes to see if that would help. It hasn't. I use distilled water with Marineland salt and the salinity has been holding right around 1.021.

Ammonia doesn't register on my kit, although I had a small spike about 2 weeks ago, no nitrite, nitrates sitting around 10, PH was at 8.6 last I checked.

I did have a fish "disappear" a few weeks back and I'm assuming he bit it inside a rock and I can't get to it but again, haven't seen any recent increase in ammonia.

No real algae problems to speak of, I do have some green that I clean off the glass but nothing hairy. I did notice a few very small red spots in my sand today under the surface which got me a bit concerned.

This has me thinking that I'm over feeding since my water won't clear up. I feed twice a day, same time every day. I use mysis to feed everyone and every blue moon, I'll toss in some pellet food mix things up. The mysis is in cubes that I cut into quarters. It seems like a fair amount to me but if I cut it in eighths, it seems like too little and it drops to the bottom before some of my fish even get to eat. I know the rule of thumb is feed them what they can eat in one minute. Should I be feeding them a very small amount, let it float way or be eaten then do it again instead of all in one dump?

Any thoughts, harsh critiques, words of wisdom or just general "go get help" statements would be greatly appreciated.

[Leetch]

Missed some other info:

Approx 34 lbs of live rock, which falls in line with what I've read that it should be around 1.24lbs of rock per gallon of tank capacity. I do not have a sump or refugium or anything else at this point. I know that will help as it increases the volume of water but I still shouldn't be having this problem even without one.

[Parrothead]

How long are you leaving your lights on, and it what order are they coming on, e.g. actinics then daylight or????????????????????

[Leetch]

How long are you leaving your lights on, and it what order are they coming on, e.g. actinics then daylight or????????????????????

Lights are on for 30 minutes from 7:00am to 7:30am just for feeding, then they come back on @ 11:30am to 7:00pm. I don't have them coming on in order. Should I have them timed seperately?

[Parrothead]

sep. timers allow for a daylight/dusk simulation, I was thinking that leaving the lights on too long may have caused an algea bloom, what are you using for water, e.g. ro, ro/di, distilled........

[Leetch]

sep. timers allow for a daylight/dusk simulation, I was thinking that leaving the lights on too long may have caused an algea bloom, what are you using for water, e.g. ro, ro/di, distilled........

Distilled water

[Parrothead]

try to cut back on the amount of food you are feeding for a couple - 3 days and see if it clears up, or if you are not now, try running some carbon.......

[Leetch]

try to cut back on the amount of food you are feeding for a couple - 3 days and see if it clears up, or if you are not now, try running some carbon.......

Thanks - I'll try less food. I actually have twice the carbon running in my HOB filter and have the flow turned down so the water spends more time in the carbon to see if that helps. Grrrr. this is annoying.

Thanks

[Ninong]

Your lighting should be on for at least 10 hours although 12 hours would be a lot more natural.

Your salinity is much too low. I would suggest gradually raising it by using saltwater for evaporation replacement until your specific gravity measures at least 1.024. Natural seawater is 35 ppt salinity, that's a specific gravity of 1.0264.

I wonder why your pH is 8.6? Anything higher than that will lead to problems. You should shoot for a range between 8.0-8.4 without allowing it to go below 7.8 or above 8.6.

Have you tested your calcium and alkalinity? It's impossible to even begin to guess at why your water is "milky" without knowing your calcium and alkalinity.

What are you adding to your tank in the way of "additives," if anything?

Your live rock is fine. Do you have a sand bed?

Feeding your fish is not causing your water to turn milky and it's not causing your nuisance algae problems. And keeping your lights on isn't causing your algae problems either. Lighting doesn't cause algae problems. Excess nitrate and phosphate cause algae problems.

[Leetch]

Your lighting should be on for at least 10 hours although 12 hours would be a lot more natural.

Your salinity is much too low. I would suggest gradually raising it by using saltwater for evaporation replacement until your specific gravity measures at least 1.024. Natural seawater is 35 ppt salinity, that's a specific gravity of 1.0264.

I wonder why your pH is 8.6? Anything higher than that will lead to problems. You should shoot for a range between 8.0-8.4 without allowing it to go below 7.8 or above 8.6.

Have you tested your calcium and alkalinity? It's impossible to even begin to guess at why your water is "milky" without knowing your calcium and alkalinity.

What are you adding to your tank in the way of "additives," if anything?

Your live rock is fine. Do you have a sand bed?

Feeding your fish is not causing your water to turn milky and it's not causing your nuisance algae problems. And keeping your lights on isn't causing your algae problems either. Lighting doesn't cause algae problems. Excess nitrate and phosphate cause algae problems.

Re-tested everything last night and Ph was at 8.4 so I'm good there. Again 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, nitrates sitting at around 5 so my skimmer seems to be starting to work. I did actually work on the salinity a little yesterday but didn't want to move it up quickly so when I did my water change I made the gravity of the water 1.026. It will take a week or so to get me back to 1.024.

Yes I have a sand bed, approx 2" deep. The only additive I put in is Iodide to keep trace elements in the water as well as get my routine down for when I eventually put in coral (4 drops per day). Nothing else is added. I have not tested for calcium but will try it this weekend.

Thanks!!!

[Ninong]

The only additive I put in is Iodide to keep trace elements in the water as well as get my routine down for when I eventually put in coral (4 drops per day).

I don't understand why you are adding iodine unless you have tested for it and found it to be deficient. Iodine in excess is toxic!

There is no reason to maintain iodine above natural seawater concentration of 0.06 ppm (all forms). There is a lot of iodine in the foods that we feed our fish and a lot of that ends up in the water column. I never had to add iodine to my tank and it always measured around 0.20 ppm. Whoever is advising you to add iodine without even testing for it is giving you bad advice. Probably someone who sells iodine and other unnecessary trace elements.

Why do you need to "keep trace elements in the water?" What trace elements are missing or deficient in your tank? Every salt mix on the market contains trace elements way above natural seawater concentrations to begin with. Many of those trace elements are toxic heavy metals and they are already higher than they should be in the salt mix. The only people who say you should add "trace elements" are the people who sell trace elements.

Both iodine and strontium are toxic in excess and should never be added to any aquarium unless you have tested for them and found them to be deficient. Iodine should be maintained at 0.06 ppm and strontium should be maintained near 9 ppm. Excess iodine causes premature molting in crustaceans, among other things, and excess strontium results in retarded coral growth because it interferes with calcium deposition in the process of building a strong skeleton.

As a matter of fact, excess strontium does exactly the same thing in humans. It causes deformed bones in children. And it doesn't take a lot of excess strontium to do that. It comes because cows craze on fields that have been subject to contamination from strontium-containing industrial fallout and their milk passes on that excess strontium. So don't live next to a nuclear power plant.

Retardation of coral skeletal growth because of excess strontium has been well documented in several scientific studies. The problem with excess strontium getting into children's blood was something that came up a few decades ago. I believe that has been taken care of by now, at least I don't remember seeing anything about it lately. Sort of like the problem with children and lead.

P.S. -- Shrimp do not need excess iodine to "help them molt." In fact, no marine animals need any elements in excess to help them do anything. Excess iodine causes shrimp to molt prematurely. That's because they deposit this toxic iodine in their exoskeletons and then shed the exoskeleton to rid themselves of this poison.

People probably don't do this anymore but when I was a child, before the discovery of any antibiotics or any kind, we dabbed tincture of iodine on any open cut to prevent it from becoming infected. That's because the iodine would kill off any bacteria that tried to infect your cut or scratch.

Why do you think we use iodine in a dip to kill off hitchhiking pathogens or parasites that may come in with new coral frags? It's because it is so toxic that it will kill them in a matter of minutes. I always dipped new SPS corals in a bath of 1/4 tsp (20 drops) of tincture of iodine per liter of tankwater for 15-20 minutes.

[Ninong]

Since you have been adding iodine, I sugest you get an iodine test kit and test for that. You may as well get a magnesium test kit, too, because you will need to maintain that in balance with your calcium. If you keep your calcium in a range of 425-450 ppm and your magnesium near 1300 ppm (or 3.1 times your calcium) and your alkalinity between 8-12 dKH, you will have no problems with your pH.

Calcium, magnesium and alkalinity are all closely tied together. If any one of those gets out of whack, it will affect the others, and alkalinity will have an effect on pH.

P.S. -- Don't add any new animals to your tank until you figure out why you have "milky" water. You definitely have a serious problem of some sort.

[Leetch]

Since you have been adding iodine, I sugest you get an iodine test kit and test for that. You may as well get a magnesium test kit, too, because you will need to maintain that in balance with your calcium. If you keep your calcium in a range of 425-450 ppm and your magnesium near 1300 ppm (or 3.1 times your calcium) and your alkalinity between 8-12 dKH, you will have no problems with your pH.

Calcium, magnesium and alkalinity are all closely tied together. If any one of those gets out of whack, it will affect the others, and alkalinity will have an effect on pH.

P.S. -- Don't add any new animals to your tank until you figure out why you have "milky" water. You definitely have a serious problem of some sort.

I appreciate it. I don't plan on adding anything new until this is cleared up and I figure out what caused it. Last thing I need is something else thrown into the equation and possibly creating another or worse problem not to mention I don't want to expose an animal to an unsatisfactory condition.

I will definately get test kits for all of the above to help identify the issue as well as keep my tank maintained properly in the future. Part of the reason I come here for advice is I sometimes doubt what my LFS is telling me and I don't have the knowledge yet to dispute what they are telling me.

Thanks again, I'll get those test kits this weekend.

[Ninong]

I sometimes doubt what my LFS is telling me and I don't have the knowledge yet to dispute what they are telling me.

"If it's on their shelf, you need it. If they don't sell it, it's not good for you and will cause harm to your tank." That's what you will hear from most LFS employees. You may need some of the stuff on their shelves but most of it you don't need and too much of it may cause harm to your tank. Remember, they're in business to sell stuff, not to talk you out of buying stuff. That's especially important to remember when you start looking at livestock.

[Ninong]

Suggested reading:

Reef Aquarium Water Parameters by Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley.

Iodine in Marine Aquaria: Part 1 by Dr. Randy-Holmes-Farley.

Iodine in Reef Tanks, Part 2: Effects on Macroalgae Growth by Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley

Strontium and the Reef Aquarium by Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley.

This article by Dr. Ron Shimek breaks down what's in the foods we feed our tank. Check out the levels of iodine in some of the stuff we feed our fish. Also, check out the fact that some of the so-called supplements that are sold in this hobby are really more than 99.9% pure water!

Trace Element Toxicity by Dr. Ron Shimek.

I don't want to load you down with an entire library of stuff to read but all of those pertain directly to what we have discussed in this thread and all of them were written by experts. Dr. Holmes-Farley has undergraduate degrees in both chemistry and biology as well as his Ph.D. in chemistry. Dr. Shimek has a Ph.D. in marine biology. Both of them have more than 20 years in the reefkeeping hobby and in Dr. Shimek's case, he's a professional marine biologist. Dr. Holmes-Farley is vice president of research for a large biochemical company. He's in charge of discovering new pharmaceuticals. Feel free to quote anything you learned from their articles the next time you hear an LFS employee telling you something that is complete bullsh!t. It will drive them crazy. Try it, it's fun.

[Leetch]

Suggested reading:

Reef Aquarium Water Parameters by Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley.

Iodine in Marine Aquaria: Part 1 by Dr. Randy-Holmes-Farley.

Iodine in Reef Tanks, Part 2: Effects on Macroalgae Growth by Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley

Strontium and the Reef Aquarium by Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley.

This article by Dr. Ron Shimek breaks down what's in the foods we feed our tank. Check out the levels of iodine in some of the stuff we feed our fish. Also, check out the fact that some of the so-called supplements that are sold in this hobby are really more than 99.9% pure water!

Trace Element Toxicity by Dr. Ron Shimek.

I don't want to load you down with an entire library of stuff to read but all of those pertain directly to what we have discussed in this thread and all of them were written by experts. Dr. Holmes-Farley has undergraduate degrees in both chemistry and biology as well as his Ph.D. in chemistry. Dr. Shimek has a Ph.D. in marine biology. Both of them have more than 20 years in the reefkeeping hobby and in Dr. Shimek's case, he's a professional marine biologist. Dr. Holmes-Farley is vice president of research for a large biochemical company. He's in charge of discovering new pharmaceuticals. Feel free to quote anything you learned from their articles the next time you hear an LFS employee telling you something that is complete bullsh!t. It will drive them crazy. Try it, it's fun.

LOL - thanks Nin. I'm always up for some reading. I recently picked up a coral book that I just started reading but am glad to add more literature to my arsenal since it will only serve to better my knowledge and to the health of my creatures in the long run.

[Parrothead]

excellent couple of post Ninong, very good.

Thank You