Need Some Help Please

[GetchaGlock]

So I am getting ready for a new addition to my 40 gal breeder. I recieved a flame angel and a lemon peel angel for xmas. They will be here after Jan 1st. Anyways I have 30lbs live rock and I will be getting another 30 lbs shortly to complete the reef. The way the tank is set up I use a HOB aqueon 55 filter (this is the way it will be ran so please no comments on how terrible hob filters are) It is full of bio rings and some sort of aquatic plants that grow very quickly. My question is what does a skimmer do differently than the filter and is it necessary? My lighting is 20k 250wt MH and the only fish in the aquarium is a spotted green puffer and he is doing very well. I have 2 frog spawns, zoa's, sun coral and folding lettuce coral. What will ensure the best conditions for my new fish? Can I mod the hob any differently to be more efficient?

Thanks

[Flyboy450r]

First of all how are you going to cure the other 30lbs of live rock i hope you will not do it in the tank. Also i see you have MH lights and understand you already have the light set up but the money would have been well spent in a different filter but as you said that is done. A skimmer is alot different than a filter. You may want to read up alot before you precede to much further. As are they necessary as not i would say no but a lot of things arnt. Do you want one heck yes. They work buy using air bubbles to remove the access protein aka fish waste and food from the water. Remora makes a great hob one that i suggest you look into. Also how long has your tank been up, what do you have for circulation, how long have you had live rock in it, what do you use for a water source, do you have any clean up crew, do you have a dsb? Im sorry to ask so much but just trying to get a fell for everything. Also what are your water perimeters? Also im not 100 percent sure but that stocking list seems pretty high for your tank. But everyone here is very helpful hope we can help you out. Go read the stickies the knowledge in them is next to none

[MyNameIsJoe]

First of all how are you going to cure the other 30lbs of live rock i hope you will not do it in the tank. Also i see you have MH lights and understand you already have the light set up but the money would have been well spent in a different filter but as you said that is done. A skimmer is alot different than a filter. You may want to read up alot before you precede to much further. As are they necessary as not i would say no but a lot of things arnt. Do you want one heck yes. They work buy using air bubbles to remove the access protein aka fish waste and food from the water. Remora makes a great hob one that i suggest you look into. Also how long has your tank been up, what do you have for circulation, how long have you had live rock in it, what do you use for a water source, do you have any clean up crew, do you have a dsb? Im sorry to ask so much but just trying to get a fell for everything. Also what are your water perimeters? Also im not 100 percent sure but that stocking list seems pretty high for your tank. But everyone here is very helpful hope we can help you out. Go read the stickies the knowledge in them is next to none

I 2nd what fly said, Skimmers are not 100% necessary, but they do help a whole lot to keep the tank water clean. I will try to post a picture in the morning of the gunk(skim-mate) the skimmer pulls from my water.

The questions Fly asked are important, as they will give us somewhere to start as far as advice goes.

When you say aquatic plants, do you mean macroalgae (such as chaeto)? Chaetomorpha algae can be very beneficial in controlling impurities in your water column. This can be placed in the HOB and water will be filtered as it flows through.

Even though your corals may look fine at the moment, water parameters are important to determine how efficient your filter system is working. Sometimes poor water quality can take some time to affect your livestock.
For example, if your nitrates are a little elevated and you have bio-wheels or bio-balls in your HOB, they may be the source of your elevated nitrates and could be removed to improve the system. (just an example).

Get back to us with some more info and hopefully we can be of some help.

ciao

[Original Fin]

About the only things a HOB filter is useful for in a reek is running carbon, and aerating. The bio rings are doing you absolutely no good. Live rock is way more effective as a bio filter. The man made rings/balls trap detritus and what not and generally make it very difficult to keep nitrate levels down. The only way to keep them from producing excessive nitrates, is to rinse them off once a week, and that of course, kills the beneficial bacteria. Lose the bio media for sure.

Either ditch the reef idea and go fish only, or get yourself a decent skimmer. Some people (not many) run skimmerless and do ok, but the ones that are succesful are well seasoned reefers with more than a few tricks up their sleeves...and it doesn't work for all coral types.

Your fish selections are not reef appropriate. Also, a green puffer can get to 7". Too big for a 40b. I suggest re-homing these fish, and doing some research on reef safe fish for a 40 gal or less tank. Or just ask for opinions on that here.

[GetchaGlock]

Just to clear some things up:

1. The only filter I can have is a HOB because of space
2. I get my live rock cured already and transported back to my tank in water
3. From what I've read the angels I got will only get 4" max
4. The spotted green puffers max length is 3", I've had it for a year and it's only grown 1/4"

I didn't really want coral in the first place so if the angels tear them up I'll just sell the corals back to the store. The only thing I'm focused on is keeping my 2 new fish alive. So I have put the seaweed into the hob and got a daylight led light to light it up. It's not cheato its just some sort of sea weed that grows really fast. Should I take the bio media out and keep the plants as total filtration? Should I get a skimmer to help? Should I leave a small patch of the seaweed in the tank for the angels to eat (I read they like vegetation)? I will only have a max of 3 fish but I want to make sure the filtration is adequate. I don't know my po4 nh3 levels I just have my water tested at my lfs every month and they always tell me its within normal limits for coral. I will have them test it tomarrow when I go in and will post the results. Also If I need to get a skimmer I need a HOB skimmer; will these work well?

[Flyboy450r]

Check out the Aqua C Romara dont waste your money on any other hob skimmer. This wont take up anymore room than you hob filter. Buy the best one you can. I realize the rock is pre cured but it will start a cycle in your tank when you add it whether its transported in water or not. Plus you want to scrub it and get everything off you can check for parasites etc. The SEAWEED your talking about cant hurt to leave in your tank i personally don't care for the look but hey im not sure if id like a constant food source to my angel i would think it would raise the nitrates. Do you have power heads in your tank, how about a sand bed. You really really need to buy a test kit for your tank. How often do you do water changes. I have a 29 gallon reef set up, with a 10 gallon sump, I have a way over rated skimmer, and a 4 inch dsb with 40-50 pounds of live rock and I struggle with mine and as of now all I have is a clean up crew, a fire shrimp, and a anemone no fish. So honestly spend the 30-40 bucks go buy a cheap test kit from your lfs and do it at least weekly no less daily if you can. I would take everything out of your hob filter except carbon if you want to keep it in. Honestly Id just get ride of it and use the skimmer. Make sure you have enough flow in your tank and dont over stock it. Your tanks been running alot longer than mine if yours has been up for a year so you've had luck so far. just do the research good luck post some pics.

[Original Fin]

Just to clear some things up:

1. The only filter I can have is a HOB because of space
2. I get my live rock cured already and transported back to my tank in water
3. From what I've read the angels I got will only get 4" max
4. The spotted green puffers max length is 3", I've had it for a year and it's only grown 1/4"

I didn't really want coral in the first place so if the angels tear them up I'll just sell the corals back to the store. The only thing I'm focused on is keeping my 2 new fish alive. So I have put the seaweed into the hob and got a daylight led light to light it up. It's not cheato its just some sort of sea weed that grows really fast. Should I take the bio media out and keep the plants as total filtration? Should I get a skimmer to help? Should I leave a small patch of the seaweed in the tank for the angels to eat (I read they like vegetation)? I will only have a max of 3 fish but I want to make sure the filtration is adequate. I don't know my po4 nh3 levels I just have my water tested at my lfs every month and they always tell me its within normal limits for coral. I will have them test it tomarrow when I go in and will post the results. Also If I need to get a skimmer I need a HOB skimmer; will these work well?

First, don't take this as a slam. Although it may come across in a negative way...it's really not. I'm spending the time to help you out. I know you just want to enjoy your fish.

I think you may be confusing filters and skimmers. Both can be stand alone, in sump, or HOB, but they are two different things. You don't want a filter in a reef system, you want a skimmer. The Aqua C (HOB) skimmer gets a lot of good press around here.

Ditto what Flyboy said about the dry rock.

A common LED will not work for growing macro, they have no virtually no PAR. Using mystery seaweed in your tank is not a winning plan either. You have no idea what lighting it needs, what water conditions it needs, or whether or not it will go sexual and take over the entire tank. Sorry, but it's just a bad idea.

Using corals as the proverbial canary in the coalmine is not going to win you any points with experienced reefers. Corals are animals, and they deserve to be treated like you give a hoot.

Dont trust the retailers info on max fish size. It's in their interest to be deceivingly conservative. A quick Google on Green Puffer and I came up with several non retailer sources that all seem to concur with 6". Here's one: Green Spotted Puffer Profile (TROPICAL FISH ARTICLES)
Puffers have no place in a reef tank. How do you plan to keep algae in check? They literally eat crabs and snails for breakfast, so say goodbye to a clean up crew. Also, they are highly predatory and agressive, and do not get along with any fish other than themselves, so your Angels are not off to a good start.



I've gotta call it like I see it. I'd say you're in over your head and your best bet is to slow way down and take a while to do some real research and planning before adding any more fish, invertebrates, rock or "seaweed".

Read all the stickys you can stomach, and then read them again. After that, ask the mods to recommend some good books. Breaking into this and being succesful is not easy. Although there are many ways to do it, the following is my own "lessons learned" 12 step program to breaking into the reefing hobby:

1. Make a loose plan of what fish, corals etc. you think you might like to keep, and how many.
2. Loose plan for max tank size based on your space limitations., and where you're going to keep it.
3. Loose plan for upfront equipment/supply budget. Just a number you're comfortable with.
4. Loose plan for monthly maintenance budget.
5. Loose plan for how much time you are able/willing to dedicate to your hobby.
6. Submit these general ideas on reef forums and ask for advice. Be prepared to get more questions back than answers. These will help with step 7.
7. Take all the things you hadn't though of and rework plans 1-5.
8. Resubmit to reef forums. Repeat step 6 & 7 until no more concerns are raised. You are now just getting into the ballpark.
9. Take all the reef forum suggestions and do your own research on those particular topics. Stickys, books, etc...This will give you some perspective as to which advice was solidly based, and which was just regurgitated half truths and take them for what they're worth.
10. Final draft plan with projected costs.
11. Spouse/significant other? Better get them on board now and have a what to expect talk.
11 & 1/2 Final Final draft plan with projected costs.
12. Make purchases and start a build thread. Update frequently with what you're planning to do before you do it. Give others a chance to redirect you before making any commitments and keep those training wheels on until you feel like you've got the hang of it.

[twisted]

im with those guys. there is alot of good advice that these guys are giving you. take it to heart and not as an attack. good luck!

[Flyboy450r]

Please don't take offense to this I know it can make you pist off trust me at times I have been, more than once. But everyone on here has been in your shoes at one time. Just go threw and read my post I asked all the same question probably more than once. I know your plan sounds great to you know but take some time and you'll learn about and understand what everyone is saying. Biggest thing is good luck and have fun. And hey maybe a reef tank isn't for you. Id love to have a trigger tank I've been torn back and forth on that many times. But I love my fire shrimp to much. Maybe just having a puffer tank is what you need. Hey nothing wrong with that they are amazing fish. Good luck Mike