Water analysis with new test kits and declining coral health :(

[simn22]

My corals arent looking the way they use to. They are surviving but not thriving.

For example, my green mushrooms have slowly shrank, I heard they were relatively easy to care for but they are shrinking.

My zoa's have recently been opening partially

All 4 anenomes have also died in the past

two sea urchins have eat up LOTS of coraline algae on my live rock and it doesn't appear to be growing back fast enough


My water parameters
P04- .5 mg/l
Ca- 400 mg/l
NO2- .1 mg/l
NO3- 5 mg/l
NH3- 0 mg/l
pH- 7.9
KH- 80
Fe non-chelated- 0 mg/l
Fe chelated- 0 mg/l
Temperature- 82 (i just realized my digital coralife was OFF...it was reading 80) but I am adjusting back to 79-80
Salinity- 1.026

I have 2 96 watt 10,000k CF and 2 96 watt antinics

I know the the KH has to be raised. I have mixed in some Kent Marine pH-buffer. The temperature will go back down. I have been using tap water to make salt and top off. I have recently acquired an RO/DI system and will be using that in the future to make and top off water

[leebca]

I moved your post from the Fish Disease/Health Forum to the Reef Forum where it will get more attention from those who are familiar with invertebrates.

I will say that your test results are not encouraging, and the use of additives to control pH is one symptom. In short your Alk, Calcium, and Magnesium need to be in balance. The table that lists balance chemistries, whether or FOWLR or a reef tank are given here: What is Water Quality. If you follow these guidelines and there isn't die off in the tank, your pH will stabilize above 8.0. In addition there should be no detectable nitrites in an established aquarium.

While you wait for others to post their questions and suggestions, please indicate the size of this tank and when it was first cycled (when it was setup) and any cycles it has gone through since that time.

[simn22]

This is a 125 gal tank. My water changes are 2 week intervals with 15 gal of aged saltwater prepared with pre treated tap water.

In the future, i will be mixing salt with RO/DI water.

I have had this tank running for about 11 months now. I would comfortably say it has been cycled for 9 months.

[Dusky Batfish]

Phosphates can for sure inhibit coral health and growth- tap water is really bad for that plus tap water is based on human safety not coral safety so there could be other things your adding with tap water as well. You can buy phosphate removers that go in the filter.

You could also add some reef safe carbon to the filter to help get rid of the nitrites and some extra bacteria or a "bacter boost" product may help to stabilize whatever is going on.

[simn22]

On top of the harm from using tap water, I was told I was not getting enough Iodide, Magnesium, and Strontium just through water changes.

I have begun dosing Brightwell Iodion and Brightwell Kalk+2 which has Ca, Mg and Strontium.

hopefully this should help and I can see changes soon.

[leebca]

simn22,

I'm not sure from whom you are getting advice, but I would stop taking it. You need the facts that many in the hobby either don't know or don't understand.

The alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium must be balanced. You need to do this artificially. You will find the table which shows these in balance in this post: What is Water Quality.

Please be sure to read and follow those guidelines.

[Dusky Batfish]

Careful not to over dose calcium! Tap water here in canada already has 450ppm, one of my friends supplimented calcium without knowing because it was mixed in with a special algae booster and ended up killing 5 corals! Check your calcium levels before adding anymore

[simn22]

thanks for the advice, i will being to make the appropriate changes slowly. I will report back on the health of corals when the water quality is in balance.

first i must get the 6 chamber RO/DI unit up and running.

one last question KH and dKH. My carbonate hardness test kit is measured in KH. Is dKH is conversion of KH?
If my original KH reading was 80 what would be my dKH?

thanks

[leebca]

The dKH stands for: dKH Degree Karbonate Hardness. It is a German translation. It stands for the measurement units for carbonate hardness alkalinity.

If you have a test kit that only uses KH, you should read the instructions to see if they mean this or not. Another way to verify this is that Alkalinity is also given in meq/l units. So if they claim that that 9.0 KH is equivalent to 3.21 meq/l then they are talking about dKH.

You might want to consider trying to find 'normal' test kits for the marine system, where there is no variation in terms.

[Dusky Batfish]

Doesnt marine salt mixes alter the pH and water hardness for you? I've tested mine and its completley different after I add my salt, as in afterwards its perfect. Although I start with very soft distilled water

[leebca]

Dusky,

I understand your confusion. What you may not understand is that each salt manufacturer uses different combinations of salts to achieve 'salt water.' They don't care what the final alk, calcium, and magnesium are so that the pH of new water is about where it belongs. The pH may start off right, but the water may not be buffered properly. This is explained in the post.

What I am trying to get across is that salt manufacturers do not prepare their mixes to end up balanced. Some of the more expensive ones do come closer to a properly buffered and balanced formula by providing excess calcium and carbonates. Most often they look to reduce costs and increase profits.

The matter is the difference between pH and buffering ability of the water. You can easily check that freshly made water meets the pH requirement, but will it hold its pH there? Holding that pH is the buffering ability of the water.

Then consider once the water is put into the system. As ingredients of the water are taken out of the water by marine life, this balance shifts. Even the best of salts thus need your attention to maintain the balance. That is, you need to add back what the lifeforms have removed so they can continue to grow and flourish properly.

[Dusky Batfish]

Okay ya for sure that makes sense. Thanks. I've never found a completely safe and effective way to change things like pH after the water is "made" and left to sit, any suggestions?

[leebca]

The ability of the water to hold a constant pH is what is called its buffering ability.

The buffering ability of the water is controlled by three things:
Alkalinity
Calcium
Magnesium

When the three are balanced (NOT just within their ranges, but BALANCED) the pH will hold where it belongs. Check those three and modify them. The table which shows their balanced concentrations is given here: What is Water Quality. (Third time I've linked this to you).

The adjustment of the new water is given in this post, but it isn't the same as balancing those three: How to Make a Successful Water Change

[Dusky Batfish]

Ya I've got them balanced, they've been balanced for awhile now. Don't really get how that can help me change my pH though. What if it was 8.5 and I wanted to bring it down to 7? just in theory

[Dusky Batfish]

It's alright. Sorry I did the research myself and I get it now

[leebca]

It's okay now? You sure? Don't want you not understanding.

Good luck!

[Dusky Batfish]

Well its more for all fish types in general, salt or freshwater, I very much dislike using pH-Up's and pH-Down's. They dont seem to do anything but harm the fish. Lets go with something as simple as betta fish whose water should potentially be at pH of 6.5 whats the safest way to get it there?

[leebca]

There are no less than hundreds of chemicals that can be used to lower the pH to that number. But what I would want to know is what chemical is found in their natural water which brings that pH to that level. Then that is the chemical I would use.

In the case of marine fishes, it's the combination of three chemistries we've identified which control the pH. Control those chemistries and the pH settles to where it belongs.

[Dusky Batfish]

Alright thanks so much Kind of what I learned yesterday. Who ever knew that water could ever be so complicated ;)