Conversion to Reef...what am i missing?

[Kmoriarty]

I currently have:

40 Gallon FOWLR, 40LBS live rock, Rena Filstar XP3 Mechanical Filter, 2x Hydor Koralia Powerheads @ 1300gph, AquaticLife 36" (148watts) T5 HO with Lunar LEDs.

My livestock is:

2x false percula (young; about 1 1/2 inches each)
2x skunk cleaner shrimp

I recently added the powerheads and the lighting was added today. The tank is about 3 months old now, and i want to take the plunge into reef . Aside from waiting a few more months for the tank to really mature, and the trace elements i'll need to add, what recommendations would you all make? I've considered a skimmer but i'm very mehodical about water changes so is it really neccessary?

I haven't decided on any corals in particular yet but does this system seem right for LPS, SPS, or both?

[reeferbill]

Hi Kmoriarty ; Welcome to the fascinating exciting and ever changing Reef side. You will not regrete it but you need patience and you must read and learn all you can from other reefers mistakes so you will have fewer set backs. I would definitly add a skimmer and a refugium instead of your canister filter. Maybe a 20gallon long or 38 gallon filled with cheato algea. You could also add some live rock to this refuge to get pods and other critters growing to help feed your corals.

[Kmoriarty]

why get rid of the mechanical filtration? I've read that carbon can still be effective in a reef tank so long as it is changed once every two weeks - a month. Won't the water "yellow" without one? Plus i intentionally got the an XP3 (designed for much larger than my 40 gallon) in order to provide a boost in bioload capacity. Since its not an eyesore, i'd like to keep the filter but if its only effect will be negative i will remove it. Thanks for your post reeferbill, i appreciate the guidance!

[FoMoCo Master Tech]

The mechanical filter can be a good or bad thing, depending on how you maintain it. The filter pad would have to be cleaned often (once or twice a week) because it traps junk and can turn into a source of high nitrates. Same thing happens with Bio media. For a FOWLR, nitrate management isn't that big of an issue. But for a reef, it poses a big problem. If you have enough live rock, the Bio media isn't needed anyway. Canister filters for reefs are realty good for 2 things. Addition water circulation and running carbon. Most would agree that if you are to use a canister filter, ditch the Bio media, use it to run carbon, and use the filter pad only if you are willing to clean it once or twice a week.

[FoMoCo Master Tech]

P.S. The right amount of live rock, a properly sized skimmer and frequent water changes will ensure the maximum "bio load capacity" your system can handle. All the filters in the world wont help that.

[Kmoriarty]

Alright thank you guys for the advice! I think I'm gonna keep the filter at least for the carbon and just remove the pad. I've also read that skimmers have the downside of competing with corals for food. Will it be a problem since my tank is only 40 gallons? Or is that a problem that the refugium takes care of?

[Leetch]

Alright thank you guys for the advice! I think I'm gonna keep the filter at least for the carbon and just remove the pad. I've also read that skimmers have the downside of competing with corals for food. Will it be a problem since my tank is only 40 gallons? Or is that a problem that the refugium takes care of?

I can't answer that specifically since I don't know the full in's and outs of how a skimmer works, however I have a 29gal with a skimmer and my coral are all doing fantastic...growing like mad. I don't add anything except a little food for the coral about every other day. Photosynthesis takes care of most of their feeding (at least the type I have).

Also I don't have a sump but did create a HOB fuge with chaeto out of an old HOB filter to help keep nutrient levels down and it works fantastic.

[Original Fin]

There's probably a little bit of truth to that depending on the size of the skimmer.

There is such a thing as overskimming, but unless you plan on dropping a grand or more on something rated for 10x or more of your tank volume, it's really a non issue. Skimmers are one of the great equalizers in reef systems. They remove excess organics...but leave enough to fuel growth of corals, microfauna , etc...Even the best skimmers are only marginally effective at removing all organic waste. Luckilly, we're not looking for completely sterile water. That would be a whole different problem.

In most cases, with easy/beginner/intermediate care level corals, the stuff naturally floating around in a mature tank (in addition to appropriate lighting) is usually plenty of food for corals to not only survive, but thrive as well. Zoos (for the most part) are a good example of this. I personally dose a small amount of phytoplankton daily to hedge that bet. In the wild, phytoplakton becomes food for the larger zooplankton, which in turn feed corals and fish. Whether or not this same food chain works in captivity is subject to debate. In my system, I don't feed my corals, but I do dose phyto, and my corals thrive. It's plausible that they would continue to thrive without phyto, but why mess with it if it works?

Corals, live rock, fish, etc, are all in effect both adding nutrients to, and filtering your water continuously. The trick of course is ballancing the ins and outs. Too much nutrient, and you get algae blooms, nitrification imballances or crashes. Too little, and corals will not thrive and may in some cases, starve.

The type and qty of corals you keep dictates whether or not you should do supplemental feedings either by broadcast or target method. For instance, you don't want to just dump a bunch of marine snow into your tank if you have few corals that would actually eat it. You'd just be polluting the tank.

Research the corals you intend to keep well before taking them home. Do you really want to commit yourself to target feeding 2-3X daily? If not, there are certain corals you should not choose. Keep in mind that the care info listed by retailers is usually just ballpark advice that may or may not be relevant to your particular system. For example, many of them suggest regularly dosing certain trace elements for particular corals. This often results in beginner hobbyists blindly dosing x amount of iodine/strontium/molybdnium etc every week until they build up to dangerous levels causing major problems. Never dose what you can't test for, and know what the NSW targets should be.
In most cases, regular water changes with fresh salt mix is more than adequate to replenish consumed trace elements for a long, long time. You might want to check and adjust their levels at the one year mark, and then again bi-annually after that. The higher the growth factor, the more often you should check.

[Kmoriarty]

Thank you all soooo much! I appreciate all the advice! My research on corals is underway and I'll definitely be purchasing a skimmer. This forum is wonderful and you all deserve to get paid for the great advice you give .

[Original Fin]

It's a pay it forward kind of thing...that's how I got my start, and I'm grateful for all the help I recieved. Nobody had to help me, they just did.

At times it seemed like I was doing everything wrong (because sometimes I was) and some of the good ole boys out there took great pleasure in kicking me while I was down...frustration on top of frustration. But there are just as many decent, helpful folks out there...just gotta look in the right places.

That's why I like Reefland. There's much less riff raff here than some of the other sites I've been on. Generally, people just want to be helpful here. Matter of fact, I just became a contributing member...another way to give back to the community that gave me my start. Heck, annual dues are only $10.

[Kmoriarty]

So i just got home from class and i removed the biomedia and filter pads from my XP3. I did research (while in class of course) and i'm thinking about a Seaclone 100 protein skimmer? from what i've read Seaclones are solid and it wasn't really expensive which is nice. I planned to head to my LFS tommorrow in hopes that they have it. I decided not to do the sump/refugium yet for monetary reasons. But eventually i will have a fuge. With the hang on back protein skimmer, the removed biomedia and filter pads, and the addition of some coral trace elements, i think i'm good to go right? I plan to wait a couple months before introducing corals since the tank is only a few months in so far. Oh also, my lighting is putting out a total of 158 watts plus 6 blue LEDs for moonlight. I was told roughly 4watts per gallon for most corals. Is this accurate and does my tank sound complete minus the later addition of a fuge?

[Original Fin]

The Seaclones get pretty bad press actually. Better to save up a little longer if there's no rush, and get something of quality.
With the lighting, are we talking about a 4 bulb T5 fixture? If so, that should be plenty in a 40.

[Kmoriarty]

Yep 4 bulb T5. Cool thanks again

[Leetch]

I use the aquaC Remora skimmer and it works beautifully. There are mixed review on them and I hear they don't work as well on larger tanks but yours is a 40gal so something like that might work well. It is a bit noisy though and since I don't have a sump to put it in, it's hanging on the display and the sound is annoying at times.

If you don't go the sump route, I would suggest at least getting a cheap HOB filter, removing the media and putting chaeto in it....just to help keep nutrient levels down so you don't get a cyano invasion or something similar. You will need lighting for the chaeto though to help keep it sucking the nutrients out....something cheap at Home Depot should work.

Be careful mixing SPS, LPS, softies, etc. Make sure you read up on them and are sure of what you are getting into. I would try and plan it out first, read up on what you want to put in then begin the purchasing.

Good luck - can't wait to see the pics when you are all done.

[Kmoriarty]

I ended up getting a corallife 65 super skimmer. It arrived yesterday and I've got it up and running. It seems great but it's creating a lot of microbubbles in the tank. I did a little research and it looks like this is normal and should cease after 24-72 hours. Thanks again for all the advice. In a couple months I'll post pics when the tank is ready for corals .

[Matities23]

lighting should be fine... i have a 4-48'' T-5 in my tank and Im keeping SPS without a problem. I would recomend start w softy and some LPS first and later on when u get more experince and knowledge give SPSs a try if you still want to.
M... Those Coralife Skimmers are know to not be the best outthere.. make sure the air tubing is always clean... microbubbles are normal on most skimmers.. you could try using a sock to trp the bubble coming from return of skimmer or placing a sponge to trap em. Start slowly w corals..and some pics of ur system would help alot... well good luck and keep using money to pay for school to do more research dont worry.. i do the same

[Kmoriarty]

Haha it's law school too. Between that and this hobby I'm usually broke! I like most LPS, leathers, and polyp colonies. I plan to do those first. The only difficult coral I really like is birdsnest. That will be the last addition. I think I'm gonna do a toadstool leather coral or a hammer coral first. Which would you recommend?