cycle question

[trustinno1]

ok here is my question if i was to upgrade to bigger tank an use my sand an live rock from my tank i have running now an use all the same fillters is the cycle process going to be the same as a new tank i would think it would be almost like an instant cycle can someone please give me their thoughts on this

[Original Fin]

If it weren't for the sand, I'd say yes. What you're talking about is a transfer, and when you do that you may not have any new cycle at all, or you may have a quick mini-cycle depending on how you do it.

Sand is the tricky part. It would be far easier to transfer a tank that had live rock with no substrate. With sand, you really can't disturb it too much without either releasing toxins (which could nuke the tank, if it's from a mature system) and/or killing off a large portion of the beneficial bacteria living in it.
You're better off using 90% new sand in the new tank, with 10% of the old surface layer sand to seed it. Drain the old tank down as far as you can to the sand bed without disturbing it or causing cloudiness. Prepare the new tank by first rinsing whatever new sand you're going to use (this does not need to be live sand, but it should be dry/rinsed arragonite). Place the new sand in the empty tank. Sprinkle the 10% old live sand over the top. Use the plate/bowl method to fill the new tank with the old tank water in a way that causes the least amount of cloudiness.

A word of caution: If your live rock in the old tank is buried in the sand bed at all, do not remove/transfer them until you've drained all the water you're going to reuse in the new tank. You cannot disturb the sand bed any deeper than 1/2" or the whole process goes out the window, and you'll release too many trapped nutrients into the water column, which will cause a mini-cycle, or crash in the new tank.


Clear as mud?

[Original Fin]

A couple active members here have recently performed succesful transfers, maybe they'll chime in with more tips/support.

Good luck!

[trustinno1]

i do use livesand is that going to make a differance an can this all be done in one day

[chrisfont23]

I migrated from a 20 g to a 29 gallon. I ditched the sand, kept the rock. Pretty much everything Fin said. I don't think it made much a difference on cycle time though. You will still get the usual brown hair algae follow by diatoms etc. IMO

[trustinno1]

but did u have a spike in nitrates ammoniua etc

[chrisfont23]

but did u have a spike in nitrates ammoniua etc

Oh yes. But sustained. Like Ammonia for a week or two. Nitrites for a week. Then nitrates for a little while. So the whole re-cycle period took about a month. I would not do a water change though. In fact, I don't even think I ran my pumps. I had two fish in there with the rock...3 inches of aragonite and about an inch of live sand.

[Original Fin]

The deal with prepackaged live sand is this. It's no more live than dry aragonite. Beneficial bacteria are present everywhere, its just that you need to provide certain conditions in order for them the flourish to the point where you can utilize them as an effective marine biofilter. That's what the cycling process is all about, and why it can take so long.

What is marketed as live sand may have had mass quantities of bb when it was packaged, but there's just no way any of it can survive after that. It's in a sealed bag that is exposed to all manner of temperature fluctuations and handling. No exchange of gasses can take place...it's dead when you open it. Will it repopulate? Yes of course, but so will dry sand, and without all the ammonia, silt and waste product. That's why I don't recommend using prepackaged live sand for transfers. Unless you rinse it many times over, but then why pay the premium for it?

As far as how quickly the process goes, the faster the better. You need to do it quickly before temp strays too far, and live rock should not be left exposed to air for more than a few minutes or else some or the critters inside will begin to die off, and that will spike your ammonia. Sponges for instance cannot be exposed to air at all, so your almost certain to have some die off there. Would that be enough to cause a crash/ cycle? Probably not, unless you have hoardes of them, but it's all cumulative.