[bugSy]

I'm planning to start a new nano...with SPS!!! Is this possible? I have a spare 10 gallon tank and a skilter 400...I can add live rock to it from my other tank...I'm planning to fill the tank to the top with live rock and attaching frags at the very top so it will receive as much light as possible...the thing is...the lighting would be provided by a 36 watt PC hood only...and possibly another 15 watt from a NO strip light...let me know if this is doomed from the beginning

thanks

[Randy V]

This is doomed from the beginning. I run 10g and 15g sps nanos. Size of the tank is not the problem. Lack of adequate lighting is the problem. Watts per gallon doesn't work very well, and really breaks down on small tanks. In my experience most sps will not do well without 250w mh lighting or its equivalent PAR in power compacts or vho. I run 250w mh iwasaki over my nano sps tanks and they are fairly successful.

A couple of other key things in my experience with nano sps tanks is water movement and protein skimming. I run my systems with 10g sumps that house AquaC EV-90 skimmers. These keep the little systems pretty clean. Also I run close to 900 gph through my 15g, two thirds through a closed loop using SEN 700 teed to two 1/2 inch stubby sea swirls. The other third through the sump return which exits through a spraybar. Sea Swirls bounce off opposite glass and have flared outputs so even though water motion is strong all current is disbursed, deflected and somewhat random.

So to run a successful nano sps tank in my opinion the keys are adequate lighting, very good water movement and very good skimming. Of course, there's always more than one way to succeed at this hobby. This is just my opinion. I'm sure someone's going to claim success with a 5g non-skimmed system. But I'm talking about growing sps over a period of years.

[bugSy]

thanks for your reply...I definitely would invest in MH and a much larger tank in the future before venturing into SPS now.

[cavil]

Thought this was relavent ... HIH

http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin...threadid=32374

I agree about the MH. The problem is how are you going to control the heat. Ice probes maybe a very good option especially with nano reefs.

Cavil

[Randy V]

Cavil makes a good point. I always forget to tell people that I run my halides in pendants. I can't imagine how you could run 250w mh in a 10 or 15g canopy from a heat standpoint. I also run a dsb refugium on a common sump with my sps nano. That lets me run the sps tank with a bare bottom. Since I run my tank at 1 turn per minute I can't really keep any substrate in that tank. The dsb in the attached refugium keeps my nitrates undetectable and I only feed the refuge with DT's live phyto and the smallest sized golden pearls. The refugium/dsb feeds my sps.

Don't give up on your nano sps tank bugsy. Mine is my pride and joy and the most fun I've had in five years of reefing. Just get the necessary setup to give yourself a chance for success.

[bugSy]

thanks for the advice...i have all the necessary equipment, (power heads too which i forgot to metnion before) excluding a pendant MH...I will definitely look into investing in one now and if the nano doesnt succeed i can always use the MH for other tanks...thanks Ill prolly start the SPS in a couple of months....

[Duncan]

Bugsy,
What you want to do is definately within reason . As suggested by others though I would also suggest a GOOD skimmer. Let me preface this next statement by saying that I in no way should be considered a proponent of pc's and this is the only time I will recommend them. (sorry guys, we all have our opinions right?) But you can definately get good growth rates from what you said you had in mind for your tank. And also if you use a highly reflective surface to mount the lights to above the tank. Leave the skilter out of the equation though. Stick with a sump that is also 10 gallons at least. And I would also suggest that you consider high flow rates. As suggested previously, this is a vital component of any successful sps tank. I have seen a system set up at Greg Schiemers house(author of many articles in several of the hobby mags) very similar to what has been described, and the corals were growing out of the tank. Yes, Greg is a really advanced aquarist, but he too had to start somewhere. As usual, all the above is IMHO. Good Luck, HTH.

Duncan.

[Randy V]

Duncan, I agree that you can use pcs or vho to keep sps. That's why I said 250w mh or equivalent par in power compacts or vho. But, you aren't seriously suggesting that most sps can be maintained under the 36w power compact that bugsy was planning to use are you? Because that's what it sounds like you are saying. I say "most" sps only because I have seen pavona sp. do well under lighting which many lps would fail to survive, so I don't know about that species. But I've never seen or heard of anyone having long term success growing sps under anything close to 36watts.

[gerowe]

Although it's not exactly a nano tank, I have grown sps with success in a small acrylic tank that I built myself and set up a a preschool, where it doesn't get a great deal of care. The tank measures 24"L x 18"W x 20"H (that's about 37 gallons, I think). I have a dsb, use a bakpac skimmer, and have 1 250W 65K halide + 2 55W pc actinics in the hood (+ a fan).

The tank a present contains 2 different montipora digitata, a pink acropora millepora, a pocillopora and a pavona cactus. All are growing well with good color. In the past it's housed a bali slimer, a plating montipora and various soft corals. There are also several fish + other critters.

It's quite easy to build a tank like this (I wasn't able to find any small commercial tanks with the dimensions I wanted), and you can do so for less than $100 in materials.

George

[bugSy]

Ok i found a 2 x 32 ABS PC hood from CSL and a 2X36 on ebay...reasonably much cheaper than MH....and also a 24" hood which is much longer than a 10 gallon but has 2x55 for only $110 on ebay also....I can replace the skilter with an old bakpak or buy a prizm...and circulation will be provided by a peguin 660....LS and LR will come from my other tank ...what do you guys think? Thanks so much for the replies

[Duncan]

Randy,
Yes, that is what i am suggesting. Like I stated, I have seen this done and the tank has been set up since 96 and it constantly has to be fragged because corals are touching each other. I am talking about montiporas, pocilliporas, certain acros, even certain stags which include Detrich Stubers formosa. Now, am I saying that it is the best way to do it? Nope. I most assuredly would prefer much more light as is being suggested, by you and others. But that was not the original question. I just do not think that the tank is "doomed." All is IMHO, good Luck, HTH.

Duncan.

[Randy V]

That's a first on me Duncan. I've only been keeping sps for five years so I'm still pretty new to this. But I've never seen acropora grow for five years with 36w of light. I would love to see pics of those tanks and learn the secret of their success.

[Duncan]

Randy,
No secrets. You see that is where I feel this hobby has weak points. I am a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. methodology. There are no potions, concoctions (sp?) or even mystical knowledge or secrets when referring to the ability to keep corals. Just an understanding of basic needs, understanding of the types of corals able to be kept under certain conditions, and understanding ones own system and even ones practices or regimens that keep such a system successful. As usual, all is IMHO.

Duncan.

[Randy V]

Gotta be a secret Duncan, because it has been my personal experience that if you take an acro sps frag that is wild caught or even propagated under 250w mh and stick it under even 65w 6500k pc lighting it will be dead within 30 days. It has to take in a certain amount of nutrients or it will die. If there is some way to supply the lack, such as a 10 to 1 ratio refugium/show spouting zooplankton or a system someone discovered to bathe the acro in bacterioplankton without mucking up the water quality then I would like to know. If there are now low-light acropora on the self propagation circuit I would like to know that too. Tell me please, because I've never seen or heard anybody make the claim the acropora can grow long term under 36w pc lighting. My opinion only.

[Duncan]

Randy,
Yep "your opinion." But I know what I have seen with my own eyes, and what I have created with my own hands in the past. And I have to tell you once again that your initial response, to the question presented by bugsy, is incorrect when exclaiming that the system is doomed, IN MY OPINION OF COURSE. In my concluding statement concerning this particular thread I must state that you and I are not the first, or will we be the last to debate this issue. When I get a sense of an escalating level of confrontation, or even sarcasm I find myself genuflecting about the good ol' days at certain other boards, chat channels, and news groups. And it is for this reason that I no longer participate in certain areas of reefdom. And why I have found myself here at reefland.com because seldomly do you ever hear of such behavior. Wanting to keep this thread from becoming reminiscent, I will just agree to disagree.

Duncan.

[bugSy]

uhh...guys...dun fite....you guys have both been really helpful and i appreciate all the info...i'll let you know as soon as I have things set up...really looking forward to this adventure....my friend has some montipora frags waiting

[Randy V]

Understood guys. Didn't mean to come across as argumentative. I'm new to this board and can tell that my tone is out of place. Best regards to all.