[thezookeeper]

I generally do not post frantic questions...but I would appreciate anybody/everybody's help and advice. This question deals mainly with my 2 ocellaris clown fish. But I'll explain...

About 2 weeks ago I noticed my open brain coral not opening like it should. I monitored levels and did my normal water change without any resolve. It also would not eat. This remains the same.

Yesterday, I added 7 nassarius snails. I acclimated them. All are currently alive. No problems to report there. I never add the lfs tank water to my tank, so no worries there either.

Today, I come home...and I honestly do not know a lot about clownfish...but I notice both of their abdomens swollen. I do not recall seeing this before. I noticed this after I had fed them. They ate like the pigs they are. So did my cleaner shrimp. MY SERPENT STAR DID NOT EAT. This is extremely unusual.

After I notice the serpent star not eating, I begin to notice the fish swimming erratically, at least in my estimation. I have seen the smaller of the two clownfish twitch and swim oddly many, many times before. I am told this is normal. But both of the clowns are swimming around faster than normal, their abdomens are swollen, I notice the fin on top of their heads seems to stand straight up, perhaps indicating stress. BUT oddly enough, after I witnessed this (it is still going on btw), I was taking an uneaten piece of formula one out of the tank and before I was able to reach it...the clowns grabbed it and ate it like they ususally do. Then went back to swimming oddly.

I will also mention about 3 weeks ago I switched to all ro/di water. Previously I had been using filtered tap water. I had no problems with it, but with the new system I'm cycling I figured I'd use the ro/di for both. Other than kalk...I had dosed nothing at all in this system. OF COURSE... yesterday...I began using Kent TechCB 2 part additive according to the directions. I did not overdose at all.

Here are my tank parameters:
salinity 1.021 this has dropped since I did my last water change...I think my salt mix was too low...it usually is 1.025. But this change would not have just occurred, it would have taken place last week ( when everything was fine)
pH 7.8 to 8.0 a little low perhaps due to the change in ro/di water?
ammonia=test reads 0.02 ppm...but I had used Amquel in an attempt to counteract what ever was happening with my fish...I generally do not do this...but I'm all worried at the moment...I BELIEVE the ammonia to be a false reading due to this
nitrite=0
nitrate=less than 10
calcium=360
phosphate=0
alk=3.25 meq

My main concern are my fish. All of my snails seem fine. All corals seem fine except the open brain, which has been closed for days. The gills on the clowns do not seem to be standing up. I do not know if this matters or not.

Does anyone know what would cause the abdominal swelling to occur in my ocellaris clownfish? Is their swimming odd based on my description?

I am so sorry for this long post...I will be searching for answers to these questions on my own, but you folks might be able to help me through experience as well. I am so worried right now. Maybe for nothing. But maybe not. I've never lost a marine fish since I started this hobby. I think I'd die if I did right now seeing as how I've been setting up this great new environment for them so they could be "happier". This is one of those times when you feel absolutely helpless and useless to these creatures you've decided to take care of. I really hate this part of it...not knowing....and just waiting....

Thank you in advance to anybody who can give any words at all. I'm sorry to be a bother.

[img]/ubb/frown.gif[/img]
Joanne

P.S.
This is in the 10 gallon system.

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That which does not kill us makes us stronger...like lifting those salt buckets.

[This message has been edited by thezookeeper (edited 05-11-2001).]

[Mikeman]

as you probably know stars are very sensitive to salintiy changes, but my guess is something they ate since the swollen stomachs, maybe try feeding food in garlic, to help them and the hole tank for the brain try to search closely and look under its "under side" and see if you can see maybe a bristle worm or someother kind of creature, to see if it is burrowing into the brain


Also this is no dis to bristle worms, but I have seen them do it to shrooms that have been on the gravel.

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Mikeman

"When I was lost as a baby 2 clownfish found me and raised me in an anenome, I still can't keep them"

[mgk65]

How are the clownfish today?

Are these tank-raised or wild-caught?
It COULD be internal parasites if wild-caught.

Have they been nipping at the rock in a particular place? Is the female a little aggressive toward the male?
They COULD be getting ready to lay eggs.

I tried to find this info in Clownfishes by Joyce Wilkerson.

Just a couple of possibilities.

mgk

[scubadude]

Hello Sunshine [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Here is my suggestion with your situation. 1st and foremost slowly bring your SG back up to .025 Maybe do a water change and reduce some of the nitrates a little. Feed and feed well and varied foods maybe soaked with garlic or selcon or zoecon? and when you are trying to feed the brain do you try at night? I would wait an hour or two after lights out and use a turkey baster and lightly put a very little amount right above the OB and wait for a minute or two and then give a little bit more...if the food settles ontop of the brain give it 5 min. and if it doesnt eat any of that food then I would lightly blow it off.
P.S. hows the big tank coming along?

[scubadude]

I forgot to ask Joanne

Is the open brain have tissue recession? do you see any of the small feeder tentacles (thats what I call em [img]/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] ) coming out at all?

[thezookeeper]

Thank you everyone! I really appreciate you looking in the Clownfish book. I have it and can't find it! Just when I needed it most.

Some good news: My fish are still swimming. Their abdomens have appeared to go down a bit. They are not swimming erratically as they were before. They are CAPTIVE BRED. So no wild catching. I've had them since December. The "female" always picks on the male and causes him to do that twitch thing. Could they both have had eggs?! I don't see any eggs, not that I would expect to. The starfish is towards the top of the tank, as he is every night. He sticks on the glass behind the skimmer, which is also in the tank.

The open brain: DOES have tissue recession. I have not seen the sweeper tentacles for 2 weeks. They were always out at night. I did what you said Rocky: I tried to feed him again. Then I waited. No tentacles, he didn't appear to "eat" as I had witnessed in the past. His tissues are still bright green and reactive, but he's just a shell of his former self, in my opinion. I'm worried. How do I know if a worm has burrowed inside? There was a tube that some creature had formed underneath the OB when I moved him onto the sandy substrate. Prior to that, he was in between two rocks. He's always loved it there up until a couple weeks ago. I do not know what has bothered him. I'm afraid I will lose him. But he's still so vibrantly colored! I just can't think that I can't save him still. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Also, I've noticed a couple bristleworms as of late. One appears to be reddish in color. Not the bristles, just the skin below. I've heard these are not good. But they must have been there all along. I can't catch them. I've tried.

I'm very happy right now that my precious little clowns are still swimming. I was most worried about them. I'm still worried about the starfish and the OB. I will do a water change tonight and make sure to slowly raise the salinity. The starfish has never reacted this way before either. I do believe my test kits as far as the levels go. That's the first thing I think of.

Does anyone else notice their fishes abdomens swell after they eat? BTW...I always fed the fish and inhabitants on food soaked in Selcon. I vary my feeding as far as what I feed. A main staple of their diet is Zooplankton by Sweetwater. I also feed Formula One every other day. This is what the starfish usually eats. Yesterday, instead of Zooplankton, I fed mysis shrimp. I wonder if that could have caused the swelling? It's only the 4th time I've used it. It was the frozen kind. I ALWAYS let the frozen foods totally defrost and soak in Selcon.

Rocky [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]: the cycle is almost over in the big tank. Up until now I was totally excited about it. Now I'm a little discouraged. I hate it when things go wrong with my little guys/gals. I'll be having some q's for you shortly, this weekend perhaps about transferring and so on. I don't plan on rushing anything when it comes to transferring all the corals and fish over. I want to do it right.

Thank you guys so much for your help and encouragement. I'll keep you posted.

[img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
Joanne


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That which does not kill us makes us stronger...like lifting those salt buckets.

[Cinco]

Joanne I have a pair of Ocellaris Clowns that do the same things you described, swollen dark stomach, more noticeable after feeding with mysis shrimp or a little too much flake, the erratic swimming I assume you mean wiggly here to there jumps around the tank.
Clowns are quirky, I got worried once because my smaller clown wasn't moving in the anemone after about 10 minutes with the lights on. It turns out he was just sleeping in. After a nudge from his girlfriend he was up and about like his usual self.

[SCETT316]

Hi Joanne:
So sorry to hear about your problems with your nano. Hang in there, hopefully everything will turn out to be fine.
Don't feel discouraged. You have done a great job with your tank. ( Sorry Rocky, I saw pics 1st [img]/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] ) [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
Things do happen, but at least you are trying your best, so you should feel good about that.
Sue

[mgk65]

Joanne:

The starfish may be reacting to the salinity change. Give it a few more days. If it is moving around, then it is probably ok. Keep checking it. Look for raw places on the tentacles. It may have injured itself and is just in recovering mode.

Regarding the OB, when do its tentacles come out usually? Try feeding it chunky food like a piece of silverside fish or shrimp. My ob is open most at about 6am and I try to feed it as soon as I get up, which is around 6-630am. It also looks like the tissue has receeded sometimes when it is drawn up, but is back in a day or two, particularly after being fed.

I have lots of bristle worms like you describe and they do not bother anything.

Don't be discouraged! I am also a newbie aquarium keeper (4.5 months) too! [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

mgk

[thezookeeper]

Update: I want to thank everyone for their words of encouragement. [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] You people are the best! My clowns are doing fine. I'm GOING to kill them if they keep acting quirky! [img]/ubb/lol.gif[/img] They are fine. The name "clowns" suit them well! The open brain seems to be doing a bit better. He was a little more opened up yesterday. I spoke with my buddies at my fav local salt lfs. I had also started using ro/di water exclusively about 3 weeks ago. I had not buffered the water since I did this. Therefore my alk has dropped. Not to any danger level, but much lower than the tank was used to. So I buffered the water. My starfish ate yesterday too!

I'm going to be really happy when I get these guys transferred into the new setup. Such a small system is too nerve racking for me! [img]/ubb/lol.gif[/img] Thank you again!!!!!!!

[img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
Joanne

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That which does not kill us makes us stronger...like lifting those salt buckets.