Algae blooms due to Nitrate or lighting? Both?

ScooterPie · 10-13-2001, 05:42 PM

How long do you guys with PCs keep your lights on? I have my daylight bulb (6500K) on for 10 hours a day, and the actinic (7100K) on for 12. I have it set-up for the sunrise/sunset effect. Is this too long, perhaps not long enough? They are each 96W if that helps any, and they are on a 45 gallon (tall).

The reason I ask is I am having a severe, prolonged algae bloom. Lots of green hair algae, plus some brown/red slime algae. It has been like this for couple of months, so I figure waiting it out isn't gonna work.

I think it may also be from feeding the fish too much, and yes, I know I'm asking for trouble having 4 fish in my 45 gal reef setup. When I did my water test, I read pH (8.0), amonia (.50), Nitrite (0), and Nitrate (20). I know the nitrates were pretty high, so I did an immediate 33% water change. Still kinda high, gonna do another one shortly. Could the high Nitrates be due to something other than overfeeding? Possibly the type of flakes I use? I am using TetraMin tropical crisps.

I've gone from feeding twice daily, alternating from flakes to bloodowrms, to just once every other day. I figured that the Yellow Tang should be feeding mostly from the reef, plus the Nori I give him. The Ladder Glider (sifter goby) should be getting most of his food from the substrate, and the Royal Gramma should also be feeding off the reef. So this leaves me with just the Ocelaris to feed. I am also cutting the seaweed down to every other day.

I feel realy guilty like I'm slowly starving them to death just so I can keep some corals and mushrooms alive. Can someone help me clear my conscience, and possibly give some insight to my algae/Nitrate problems?

reefhead · 10-13-2001, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ScooterPie
Can someone help me clear my conscience, and possibly give some insight to my algae/Nitrate problems?

Quote:

When I did my water test, I read pH (8.0), amonia (.50), Nitrite (0), and Nitrate (20)

you have .50 ammonia, ANY is too much.

DONT'S
stop doing water changes your making it worse.

your selection of fish is ok, dont add any more.

dont feed bloodworms anymore.

DO's

tell us what you have for filtration(ie. deep sand bed. live rock, mechanical....) do you use RO water.

How long has your system been setup?

cheers,
Joe

reefhead · 10-13-2001, 07:50 PM

Oh yeah!!

Welcome to Reefland.Com

ScooterPie · 10-13-2001, 11:43 PM

Thanks for the response Joe!

I'm confused now. I was always told and have always read that to bring the nitrate levels down I should do a partial water change. Did I take out too much or should I not have done it at all? I'm not discounting your advice, I'm just curious as to why I shouldn't do water changes when the Nitrate levels are so high. I'm kinda wierd like that, I have to know the "whys" of something before I feel comfortable doing it. As for the bloodworms, what would be a good substitute? Silversides? Nothing? I never was crazy about the idea of feeding just flakes - it doesn't seem very natural.

As for my system, it is a 45 gal and was initially setup about 8 years ago as FO. I moved about 2 years ago and then converted to a semi-reef. I don't know whether to say it has been setup for 8 years or two. If it makes a difference I kept the tank water/bacteria in the Fluval when I moved, trying not to disturb anything. I was trying to avoid having to go through another cycle.

I have a Fluval 303, Skilter 250, 15 lbs live rock (slowly working my way toward ~80 lbs), currently about 3" of araggonite, soon to be 5". I was going to let the live rock slowly seed the susbtrate, but I will most likely be buying the Live sand kit from IPSF to get things moving along a little faster. Should I have used sand maybe? I like the looks of the araggonite better, and was hoping I could just seed it to get stuff growing in there. I believe you would call my setup a "berlin" style, is this correct?

I don't have an RO unit, so I have been using the Crystal water that they deliver on the trucks. Is this not a good idea? Right now I don't have any other choice. My tap water is basically green.

Thanks for all your help!

reefhead · 10-14-2001, 12:14 PM

Hey there!

The water you are using might be the problem , test it for Phosphate.

You system is more like a "Shimek" style, berlin systems generaly have no substrate.

By all means do a large water change but, dont keep doing them.
also, ease off on the feeding a lot until you esatablish some means of exporting excess nutrients. your skilter will not cut it anymore.

create a refugium- grow some macro algea for harvesting. There are tons of articles at www.reefcentral.com under the author Dr. Ron Shimek, read them all!!!

www.rshimek.com

http://www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm

hope this helps

joe

PS
I would also trade in some fish for some Live Rock until you get things stright

bongobrian · 10-15-2001, 09:37 AM

ScooterPie~ welcome to reefland bro! Just thought I'd put in a comment or two because I have had the same problem with my tank (high nitrates and algea growth). First off I would DEFINITELY test your water. I would be very suspicious of that water you're using. There is a big difference between using drinking water/spring water and distilled or R/O water. Spring water and drinking water are still chalk-full of nutrients and minerals. I made the same mistake a long time ago and now I'm paying the price. Also, are you adding any other trace elements to your tank? it doesn't sound like you're overfeeding. In fact, I thought feeding every other day is too little! especially for the tang since they typically need to be fed every day. If you're adding trace elements and they aren't being completely absorbed, then that could cause nitrate probs/algea. Think of it like this, the weight of everything you put in your tank has to come out in some form whether it be waste in your filter, growth of good algea, or growth of bad algea. Excess nutrients will cause the bad stuff to grow. If I were you I wouldn't worry too much about the food, but check out the water you're using and make sure it is distilled and not spring water. Tell us if you're using trace elements and how much of each. Keep your skimmate clean!!!!!! you might also want to buy more live rock. I would try to get some pre-cured fiji type 2 or something like that. The refugium that reefhead mentioned would be a great idea but it isn't necessary. You could always grow some macros right inside your tank if you want. Hope this helps! peace.

Gabriel · 10-16-2001, 01:30 PM

Hey Scooter,

I have the same problem with a 75 gal reef, with red and hair algae growing like a nuclear threat. I have known for some time that my Skelter is inadequate for the task, but not sure what to replace it with (or if I can afford said replacement). I have a yellow tang and algae blenny who are supposed to keep this stuff mowed, but aren't keeping up their end of the bargain. I also have 3 chromis and an oscellaris to feed, perhaps the tang is getting their frozen brine and flake and isn't hungry enough to graze. I also give a few silverside or krill pieces to keep an arrow crab happy.

3" live DSB, 40# live rock, misc coral & frags

I use:
Kent trace element supplement @ 1 cap/week
Kent Tech A&B calcium buffer @ 1 cap every other day, test every week
Nitrates are generally ~10, maintained by weekly 10% water changes.

I also would like to know better ways of controlling algae and suggestions for a new skimmer. Thanks.

Gabriel

reefhead · 10-16-2001, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gabriel
I use:
Kent trace element supplement @ 1 cap/week
Kent Tech A&B calcium buffer @ 1 cap every other day, test every week
Nitrates are generally ~10, maintained by weekly 10% water changes.

I also would like to know better ways of controlling algae and suggestions for a new skimmer. Thanks.

Gabriel

Hi Gabriel,

I would purchase a remora skimmer they are the best bang for the buck!!Trace elements are your main cause of algea blooms, I would put money on it.Dr. Ron Shimek has stated several times that this is a pointlessaddition if you feed your tank as much as you do.

what kind of water do you do your water changes with?

cheers,
Joe

Gabriel · 10-16-2001, 06:05 PM

Thanks for responding, Joe

I use declorinated tap water. City water, not well. Pretty sure I am starting with nitrates already, but can't afford that RO unit just yet.

Should I back off on dinner as well as stop the trace elements? The fishies could be too fat&happy to graze.

I'd also better read more from Dr. Shimek. Not sure the muck I'm scraping off the glass would be as good as Garlic Ranch, but I'm willing to give it a try.

Gabriel

reefhead · 10-16-2001, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gabriel

I use declorinated tap water. City water, not well. Pretty sure I am starting with nitrates already, but can't afford that RO unit just yet.

Do you have a LFS ( Local Fish Store) who sells RO water? This is what I buy.

This is a link to the Library at Reefcentral.com, find the link to Dr. Ron Shimek and read away ---also, www.rshimek.com

Happy Reading!!!.......And read them all they will come in handy one day for sure

http://www.reefcentral.com/library/

Stop using the Trace elements for sure, the feeding can be slowed down just a little to let your systems natural ability to process nutrients catch up!

10-13-2001, 05:42 PM	#1
ScooterPie Just Moved In Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 33	Algae blooms due to Nitrate or lighting? Both? How long do you guys with PCs keep your lights on? I have my daylight bulb (6500K) on for 10 hours a day, and the actinic (7100K) on for 12. I have it set-up for the sunrise/sunset effect. Is this too long, perhaps not long enough? They are each 96W if that helps any, and they are on a 45 gallon (tall). The reason I ask is I am having a severe, prolonged algae bloom. Lots of green hair algae, plus some brown/red slime algae. It has been like this for couple of months, so I figure waiting it out isn't gonna work. I think it may also be from feeding the fish too much, and yes, I know I'm asking for trouble having 4 fish in my 45 gal reef setup. When I did my water test, I read pH (8.0), amonia (.50), Nitrite (0), and Nitrate (20). I know the nitrates were pretty high, so I did an immediate 33% water change. Still kinda high, gonna do another one shortly. Could the high Nitrates be due to something other than overfeeding? Possibly the type of flakes I use? I am using TetraMin tropical crisps. I've gone from feeding twice daily, alternating from flakes to bloodowrms, to just once every other day. I figured that the Yellow Tang should be feeding mostly from the reef, plus the Nori I give him. The Ladder Glider (sifter goby) should be getting most of his food from the substrate, and the Royal Gramma should also be feeding off the reef. So this leaves me with just the Ocelaris to feed. I am also cutting the seaweed down to every other day. I feel realy guilty like I'm slowly starving them to death just so I can keep some corals and mushrooms alive. Can someone help me clear my conscience, and possibly give some insight to my algae/Nitrate problems? __________________ Chris Johnson 45 gal reef Last edited by ScooterPie; 10-13-2001 at 05:51 PM.

10-13-2001, 07:50 PM	#3
reefhead Governor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: st.petersburg,Fl. Posts: 1,513	Oh yeah!! Welcome to Reefland.Com __________________ Joseph Abrams Enjoy Being, LLC www.NanoReefCentral.com

10-13-2001, 11:43 PM	#4
ScooterPie Just Moved In Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 33	Thanks for the response Joe! I'm confused now. I was always told and have always read that to bring the nitrate levels down I should do a partial water change. Did I take out too much or should I not have done it at all? I'm not discounting your advice, I'm just curious as to why I shouldn't do water changes when the Nitrate levels are so high. I'm kinda wierd like that, I have to know the "whys" of something before I feel comfortable doing it. As for the bloodworms, what would be a good substitute? Silversides? Nothing? I never was crazy about the idea of feeding just flakes - it doesn't seem very natural. As for my system, it is a 45 gal and was initially setup about 8 years ago as FO. I moved about 2 years ago and then converted to a semi-reef. I don't know whether to say it has been setup for 8 years or two. If it makes a difference I kept the tank water/bacteria in the Fluval when I moved, trying not to disturb anything. I was trying to avoid having to go through another cycle. I have a Fluval 303, Skilter 250, 15 lbs live rock (slowly working my way toward ~80 lbs), currently about 3" of araggonite, soon to be 5". I was going to let the live rock slowly seed the susbtrate, but I will most likely be buying the Live sand kit from IPSF to get things moving along a little faster. Should I have used sand maybe? I like the looks of the araggonite better, and was hoping I could just seed it to get stuff growing in there. I believe you would call my setup a "berlin" style, is this correct? I don't have an RO unit, so I have been using the Crystal water that they deliver on the trucks. Is this not a good idea? Right now I don't have any other choice. My tap water is basically green. Thanks for all your help! __________________ Chris Johnson 45 gal reef

10-14-2001, 12:14 PM	#5
reefhead Governor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: st.petersburg,Fl. Posts: 1,513	Hey there! The water you are using might be the problem , test it for Phosphate. You system is more like a "Shimek" style, berlin systems generaly have no substrate. By all means do a large water change but, dont keep doing them. also, ease off on the feeding a lot until you esatablish some means of exporting excess nutrients. your skilter will not cut it anymore. create a refugium- grow some macro algea for harvesting. There are tons of articles at www.reefcentral.com under the author Dr. Ron Shimek, read them all!!! www.rshimek.com http://www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm hope this helps joe PS I would also trade in some fish for some Live Rock until you get things stright __________________ Joseph Abrams Enjoy Being, LLC www.NanoReefCentral.com Last edited by reefhead; 10-14-2001 at 12:17 PM.

10-15-2001, 09:37 AM	#6
bongobrian Mayor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan Posts: 657	ScooterPie~ welcome to reefland bro! Just thought I'd put in a comment or two because I have had the same problem with my tank (high nitrates and algea growth). First off I would DEFINITELY test your water. I would be very suspicious of that water you're using. There is a big difference between using drinking water/spring water and distilled or R/O water. Spring water and drinking water are still chalk-full of nutrients and minerals. I made the same mistake a long time ago and now I'm paying the price. Also, are you adding any other trace elements to your tank? it doesn't sound like you're overfeeding. In fact, I thought feeding every other day is too little! especially for the tang since they typically need to be fed every day. If you're adding trace elements and they aren't being completely absorbed, then that could cause nitrate probs/algea. Think of it like this, the weight of everything you put in your tank has to come out in some form whether it be waste in your filter, growth of good algea, or growth of bad algea. Excess nutrients will cause the bad stuff to grow. If I were you I wouldn't worry too much about the food, but check out the water you're using and make sure it is distilled and not spring water. Tell us if you're using trace elements and how much of each. Keep your skimmate clean!!!!!! you might also want to buy more live rock. I would try to get some pre-cured fiji type 2 or something like that. The refugium that reefhead mentioned would be a great idea but it isn't necessary. You could always grow some macros right inside your tank if you want. Hope this helps! peace. __________________ Brian For those about to rock... I salute you! www.bongobrian.com Talk to me! aol: bongobrian78 msn: bongobrian@hotmail.com yahoo: bongobrian78

10-16-2001, 01:30 PM	#7
Gabriel Just Moved In Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: West By-God Virginia Posts: 18	Hey Scooter, I have the same problem with a 75 gal reef, with red and hair algae growing like a nuclear threat. I have known for some time that my Skelter is inadequate for the task, but not sure what to replace it with (or if I can afford said replacement). I have a yellow tang and algae blenny who are supposed to keep this stuff mowed, but aren't keeping up their end of the bargain. I also have 3 chromis and an oscellaris to feed, perhaps the tang is getting their frozen brine and flake and isn't hungry enough to graze. I also give a few silverside or krill pieces to keep an arrow crab happy. 3" live DSB, 40# live rock, misc coral & frags I use: Kent trace element supplement @ 1 cap/week Kent Tech A&B calcium buffer @ 1 cap every other day, test every week Nitrates are generally ~10, maintained by weekly 10% water changes. I also would like to know better ways of controlling algae and suggestions for a new skimmer. Thanks. Gabriel __________________ It's hard to make a comeback when you haven't been anywhere.

10-16-2001, 06:05 PM	#9
Gabriel Just Moved In Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: West By-God Virginia Posts: 18	Thanks for responding, Joe I use declorinated tap water. City water, not well. Pretty sure I am starting with nitrates already, but can't afford that RO unit just yet. Should I back off on dinner as well as stop the trace elements? The fishies could be too fat&happy to graze. I'd also better read more from Dr. Shimek. Not sure the muck I'm scraping off the glass would be as good as Garlic Ranch, but I'm willing to give it a try. Gabriel __________________ It's hard to make a comeback when you haven't been anywhere.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode