Horned Boxfish

obring · 10-18-2001, 05:48 AM

I got a horned boxfish about six weeks ago. Besides eating all the seagrapes on sight, his addition to the tank has been fascinating. He trully is a great individual on the tank! He already "knows" me as the feeder and will somersault and get excited when I come close to the tanks in the mornings. My question is... He is losing his horns! Anyone knows anything about this fish? I tried looking for info and the same was limited...either that or i am not looking on the right place!

Thanks!

**Ninong** · 10-18-2001, 08:07 AM

Search under Lactoria cornuta, Family Ostraciidae: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/boxfshfaqs.htm
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Spec...esname=cornuta

Ninong

obring · 10-18-2001, 03:52 PM

THANKS!!! At least I got to identified mine as a Lactoria cornuta (Longhorn cowfish). Not much on his habots and care though.... but hey! I am gratefull!

**Ninong** · 10-18-2001, 04:36 PM

OK, I have a few questions for you.

What size is your tank? Is it a reef-tank or a fish-only tank? Adults of this species are not considered a good choice for a reef-tank. Also, reef-tanks usually have too much current for boxfish.

Are you aware of the adult size of this fish? (18" TL max. size)

Are you aware of the risks involved in keeping this fish?

Robert M. Fenner wrote in his "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" (page 322) that he "witnessed three episodes of whole tanks being poisoned with this (long horned cowfish) species, one from a dead specimen in a filter, another from a harassed individual, the third from the careless introduction of shipping water into the display system."

A few references re the topic:
Brock, V.E. 1956. Possible production of substances poisonous to fishes by the boxfish Ostracion lentiginosus Schneider. Copeia 1956, 195-196.
Michael, Scott. 1998. Swimming boxes. Boxfish are interesting to keep, but choose their tankmates carefully to avoid disaster. AFM 3/98.
Thompson, D.A. 1964. Ostracitoxin: an ichthyotoxic stress secretion of the boxfish Ostracion lentiginosus. Science 146:244-245.
Thompson, D.A. 1969. Toxic stress secretions of the boxfish Ostracion meleagris Shaw. Copeia 1969:335-352.

Regards,

Ninong

P.S. - I just checked out your profile and learned that what you have is a 90-gallon "fish-only with live rock plus some mushrooms." This tank is not large enough for an adult Lactoria cornuta. Also, it is probably not large enough for the two coral cats (Plotosus lineatus) that you have in there. I hope you are very, very careful with the coral cats as they are extremely venomous and can give you a very painful puncture if handled carelessly: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/plotosid.htm

obring · 10-18-2001, 05:48 PM

Thanks again! Actually, I don't think what i got are coral cats! My LFS has been very unreliable as far as names are concerned (I really try not to go there.... but the next LFS is 60 miles away). They are long and green and have orangy-yellow stripes that run vertically accros their body...very secretive... coming out only to eat. Now...what they sold me as an "engineer fish" looks horribly much like the Plotosus Lineatos in the link you gave me. I have a single surviving one (i bought three about three months ago and only the one survived) and he is REALLY secretive, and digs under the rocks...

I also just realized how big the Cowfish gets! She is only about four inches long at this time.

I am VERY carefull, specially since the Dwarf Lion has become very aggressively friendly, since he is ALWAYS hungry. Both him and "Horny" (as i coined the cowfish) get very excited specially in the mornings when I (and only I) appropach the tank.

Once again dude! thanks! This BB is always great!

obring · 10-18-2001, 05:50 PM

By the way... I am already looking for an upgrade to keep Horny in... what would you recommend if I was to keep her and only her in a tank???

**Ninong** · 10-18-2001, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by obring

Now...what they sold me as an "engineer fish" looks horribly much like the Plotosus Lineatos in the link you gave me. I have a single surviving one (i bought three about three months ago and only the one survived) and he is REALLY secretive, and digs under the rocks...

Yes, juvenile Engineer Fish (Pholidichthys leucotaenia) are often confused with Coral Cats. They will lose the longitudinal stripes as they mature. Based on your description, it sounds like you do have a juvenile Engineer Fish.

I also just realized how big the Cowfish gets! She is only about four inches long at this time.

Which is a good reason to check out that stuff before you buy. I don't know what advice to offer you as far as tank size is concerned except to say that it should probably be at least 6' long at a minimum and a better size would be a 300-gal tank (8' long). It is unlikely that yours will get larger than 12" in length at the most--18" TL is the maximum. I did see one once that was about 14" long at a public aquarium.

Ninong

JustPhish · 10-19-2001, 09:44 AM

Hi there. I used to keep a long horned cow for a some time. He was the family favorite and always got the most attention. I got him at less than an inch and in two short years later he was all of 8 inches not including tail. THey grow extremely fast and are incredible hogs. Mine would eat an entire jumbo shrimp at one feeding. They also squirt jets of water over the sand bed in the wild to uncover their food. Yours will soon realize that food comes from above and will start squirting water out of the top of the tank. Cute at first, but it quickly becomes a pain as the glass is always dirty and your company sitting on the couch won't appreciate the shower they get when they come over.

As ninong already mentioned, reef tanks have far too much current for them. THey are terrible swimmers and won't fare well with a current to swim against. They are also very susceptible to ich.

Yours may be losing it's horns from constantly rubbing them on the front glass trying to get closer to you. Mine would follow my finger anywhere on the glass and attempt to suck it in through the glass often. Watch when yours get bigger, they can take your hand in their mouth breaking all your fingers to make sure it fits! Very strong! LOL

Now, the reason why he is no longer with us. One night my return plumbing failed, I was at work for a few days so when I got back I noticed it. My cowfish had freaked about something and wedged himself into some rocks and bombed the entire tank. Everything was killed. All fish, all corals I did manage to keep with him, thousands of bristleworms littered the aquascape, all pods were dead, etc. THe only things that survived were three snails and two hermit crabs.

They do get really large, I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than a 6 foot tank at least. His tail will soon almost be the size of his entire body (minus horns) if not larger.

If you have any questions drop me a line.
Good luck

obring · 10-19-2001, 02:09 PM

Thanks for the info. As attached as I have gotten to her (dont ask me why i call it "her"....i dont know!)

I am already planning on maybe getting a tank for her...and maybe a lionfish (one of the bigguns). We will see.... in the meantime... I hope I dont get bombed! I would surely die!!!! LOL

again..thanks for the info though!

ranaman · 10-21-2001, 07:26 PM

If this LFS is who I think it is a 60 mile drive is not a bad idea. When I was last in this Winter haven LFS they had PRE-REDSLIMED live rock for sale. Anyway there is a little hole in the wall place called Pet Stop , whose fish didn't look that bad. They are on Hwy. 92 . Going a little farther west on 92 near the intersection of Combee and 92 is Nolan's Aquarium. Nolan has been around along time and has some nice fish not that pricey. He is more like 20 miles from Winter Haven. Of course there are some nice places in Tampa and Ocean Blue Aquarium is worth a visit in orlando.

obring · 10-22-2001, 06:21 AM

Thanks Ranaman! Some time ago I asked about LFS in the area but I did not get a response... I know the one you are talking about in Auburndale... they stoped carrying saltwater fish...but they are great for equipment. I need to check out the one further down on 92, and I just heard that someone opened one for some time now on Recker Highway... only salt water... I am really hoping they are better than Pet World, as I will not go there even to ask for the time of day!

As far as the cowfish... I am really at a crossroad... I know that the best I could do is take her back but honestly, when I think about it, they will probably sell it to someone else that will probably end up killing her....and she is doing great so far! Yesterday I had to replace the second pump on the tank and I bought one that rotates, weeelllll.... she had a ball trying to get to the flow guard... I am also feeding her Marine Algue (Seaweed Selects) and SHE IS A PIG!

10-18-2001, 05:48 AM	#1
obring Tenant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida, USA Posts: 62	Horned Boxfish I got a horned boxfish about six weeks ago. Besides eating all the seagrapes on sight, his addition to the tank has been fascinating. He trully is a great individual on the tank! He already "knows" me as the feeder and will somersault and get excited when I come close to the tanks in the mornings. My question is... He is losing his horns! Anyone knows anything about this fish? I tried looking for info and the same was limited...either that or i am not looking on the right place! Thanks! __________________ It all comes home in the evening tide!http://hometown.aol.com/obring/myhomepagesaltwatertank.html

10-18-2001, 03:52 PM	#3
obring Tenant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida, USA Posts: 62	THANKS!!! At least I got to identified mine as a Lactoria cornuta (Longhorn cowfish). Not much on his habots and care though.... but hey! I am gratefull! __________________ It all comes home in the evening tide!http://hometown.aol.com/obring/myhomepagesaltwatertank.html

10-18-2001, 05:48 PM	#5
obring Tenant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida, USA Posts: 62	Thanks again! Actually, I don't think what i got are coral cats! My LFS has been very unreliable as far as names are concerned (I really try not to go there.... but the next LFS is 60 miles away). They are long and green and have orangy-yellow stripes that run vertically accros their body...very secretive... coming out only to eat. Now...what they sold me as an "engineer fish" looks horribly much like the Plotosus Lineatos in the link you gave me. I have a single surviving one (i bought three about three months ago and only the one survived) and he is REALLY secretive, and digs under the rocks... I also just realized how big the Cowfish gets! She is only about four inches long at this time. I am VERY carefull, specially since the Dwarf Lion has become very aggressively friendly, since he is ALWAYS hungry. Both him and "Horny" (as i coined the cowfish) get very excited specially in the mornings when I (and only I) appropach the tank. Once again dude! thanks! This BB is always great! __________________ It all comes home in the evening tide!http://hometown.aol.com/obring/myhomepagesaltwatertank.html

10-18-2001, 05:50 PM	#6
obring Tenant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida, USA Posts: 62	By the way... I am already looking for an upgrade to keep Horny in... what would you recommend if I was to keep her and only her in a tank??? __________________ It all comes home in the evening tide!http://hometown.aol.com/obring/myhomepagesaltwatertank.html

10-19-2001, 02:09 PM	#9
obring Tenant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida, USA Posts: 62	Thanks for the info. As attached as I have gotten to her (dont ask me why i call it "her"....i dont know!) I am already planning on maybe getting a tank for her...and maybe a lionfish (one of the bigguns). We will see.... in the meantime... I hope I dont get bombed! I would surely die!!!! LOL again..thanks for the info though! __________________ It all comes home in the evening tide!http://hometown.aol.com/obring/myhomepagesaltwatertank.html

10-18-2001, 08:07 AM	#2
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 19,724	Search under Lactoria cornuta, Family Ostraciidae: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/boxfshfaqs.htm http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Spec...esname=cornuta Ninong

10-18-2001, 04:36 PM	#4
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 19,724	OK, I have a few questions for you. What size is your tank? Is it a reef-tank or a fish-only tank? Adults of this species are not considered a good choice for a reef-tank. Also, reef-tanks usually have too much current for boxfish. Are you aware of the adult size of this fish? (18" TL max. size) Are you aware of the risks involved in keeping this fish? Robert M. Fenner wrote in his "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" (page 322) that he "witnessed three episodes of whole tanks being poisoned with this (long horned cowfish) species, one from a dead specimen in a filter, another from a harassed individual, the third from the careless introduction of shipping water into the display system." A few references re the topic: Brock, V.E. 1956. Possible production of substances poisonous to fishes by the boxfish Ostracion lentiginosus Schneider. Copeia 1956, 195-196. Michael, Scott. 1998. Swimming boxes. Boxfish are interesting to keep, but choose their tankmates carefully to avoid disaster. AFM 3/98. Thompson, D.A. 1964. Ostracitoxin: an ichthyotoxic stress secretion of the boxfish Ostracion lentiginosus. Science 146:244-245. Thompson, D.A. 1969. Toxic stress secretions of the boxfish Ostracion meleagris Shaw. Copeia 1969:335-352. Regards, Ninong P.S. - I just checked out your profile and learned that what you have is a 90-gallon "fish-only with live rock plus some mushrooms." This tank is not large enough for an adult Lactoria cornuta. Also, it is probably not large enough for the two coral cats (Plotosus lineatus) that you have in there. I hope you are very, very careful with the coral cats as they are extremely venomous and can give you a very painful puncture if handled carelessly: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/plotosid.htm

10-18-2001, 06:32 PM	#7
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 19,724	Originally posted by obring Now...what they sold me as an "engineer fish" looks horribly much like the Plotosus Lineatos in the link you gave me. I have a single surviving one (i bought three about three months ago and only the one survived) and he is REALLY secretive, and digs under the rocks... Yes, juvenile Engineer Fish (Pholidichthys leucotaenia) are often confused with Coral Cats. They will lose the longitudinal stripes as they mature. Based on your description, it sounds like you do have a juvenile Engineer Fish. I also just realized how big the Cowfish gets! She is only about four inches long at this time. Which is a good reason to check out that stuff before you buy. I don't know what advice to offer you as far as tank size is concerned except to say that it should probably be at least 6' long at a minimum and a better size would be a 300-gal tank (8' long). It is unlikely that yours will get larger than 12" in length at the most--18" TL is the maximum. I did see one once that was about 14" long at a public aquarium. Ninong

10-19-2001, 09:44 AM	#8
JustPhish Just Moved In Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 44	Hi there. I used to keep a long horned cow for a some time. He was the family favorite and always got the most attention. I got him at less than an inch and in two short years later he was all of 8 inches not including tail. THey grow extremely fast and are incredible hogs. Mine would eat an entire jumbo shrimp at one feeding. They also squirt jets of water over the sand bed in the wild to uncover their food. Yours will soon realize that food comes from above and will start squirting water out of the top of the tank. Cute at first, but it quickly becomes a pain as the glass is always dirty and your company sitting on the couch won't appreciate the shower they get when they come over. As ninong already mentioned, reef tanks have far too much current for them. THey are terrible swimmers and won't fare well with a current to swim against. They are also very susceptible to ich. Yours may be losing it's horns from constantly rubbing them on the front glass trying to get closer to you. Mine would follow my finger anywhere on the glass and attempt to suck it in through the glass often. Watch when yours get bigger, they can take your hand in their mouth breaking all your fingers to make sure it fits! Very strong! LOL Now, the reason why he is no longer with us. One night my return plumbing failed, I was at work for a few days so when I got back I noticed it. My cowfish had freaked about something and wedged himself into some rocks and bombed the entire tank. Everything was killed. All fish, all corals I did manage to keep with him, thousands of bristleworms littered the aquascape, all pods were dead, etc. THe only things that survived were three snails and two hermit crabs. They do get really large, I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than a 6 foot tank at least. His tail will soon almost be the size of his entire body (minus horns) if not larger. If you have any questions drop me a line. Good luck

10-21-2001, 07:26 PM	#10
ranaman Council Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Imperial Polk County, Fl Posts: 432	If this LFS is who I think it is a 60 mile drive is not a bad idea. When I was last in this Winter haven LFS they had PRE-REDSLIMED live rock for sale. Anyway there is a little hole in the wall place called Pet Stop , whose fish didn't look that bad. They are on Hwy. 92 . Going a little farther west on 92 near the intersection of Combee and 92 is Nolan's Aquarium. Nolan has been around along time and has some nice fish not that pricey. He is more like 20 miles from Winter Haven. Of course there are some nice places in Tampa and Ocean Blue Aquarium is worth a visit in orlando. __________________ "The octopus notices the little cowries."

10-22-2001, 06:21 AM	#11
obring Tenant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida, USA Posts: 62	Thanks Ranaman! Some time ago I asked about LFS in the area but I did not get a response... I know the one you are talking about in Auburndale... they stoped carrying saltwater fish...but they are great for equipment. I need to check out the one further down on 92, and I just heard that someone opened one for some time now on Recker Highway... only salt water... I am really hoping they are better than Pet World, as I will not go there even to ask for the time of day! As far as the cowfish... I am really at a crossroad... I know that the best I could do is take her back but honestly, when I think about it, they will probably sell it to someone else that will probably end up killing her....and she is doing great so far! Yesterday I had to replace the second pump on the tank and I bought one that rotates, weeelllll.... she had a ball trying to get to the flow guard... I am also feeding her Marine Algue (Seaweed Selects) and SHE IS A PIG! __________________ It all comes home in the evening tide!http://hometown.aol.com/obring/myhomepagesaltwatertank.html

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