[VIC]

Just a little info. for you guys. My friend is an oceanographer who is employed at The Baltimore Aquarium. I gave him a call in regard to this subject and here is what he said.
Their reef tanks are kept at a constant temp. rate of 79-80 degrees. The logic behind this is that bacteria from any new corals / fish which enter the aquarium will multiply faster with temps over 80 degrees. As far as the corals are concerned, they can survive at temps up to 85 degrees but in a home tank, 55- 500 gallons, he would not recommend a temp over 80 degrees and a salinity rate of over 1027.
One of the fastest growing bacteria is Vibrio (SPS Corals) and in order to avoid "wipe out syndrome" a maximum temp of 80 degrees is recommended. His testing (10 years employed there) has shown that an 80 degree maximum temp. will combat Vibrio bacteria better than a higher average temp.
Hopefully this puts the topic, and the sarcasm at rest.
Vic

[organicreefer]

vic-i seriously doubt this topic will ever be put to rest-this has been a subject of debate foir many years now -and will porbably continue for many more........

[Mr Neutron]

Just to add my data: Both of my reefs, a mixed lps/sps and a softie tank run 80-84 daily. I would not run them any lower and agree with Dr Ron Shimek that higher temps are more normal than temperate temps (70's).

[organicreefer]

yeah ,do you also beleive dr ron when he says you need to break down youre tank and start over every four years?


i wonder if his problems are related to temp

couldnt resist that one

[Mr Neutron]

Don't even start on that debate. I do agree with the findings that trace element buildup should seriously be looked at but IMO the jury is still out.

However, I do agree with Ron's temperature recommendations and IME have had NO adverse problems in almost 2 years running in that temperature range. I see no reason for using a chiller unless you plan on keeping a temperate specie tank, or have serious overheating problems.

Since I have read the average reef temp is not in the 70's but actually 82' and can run as high as 90, I think the only downside to those temps is the higher metabolic rate of our specimens. If they are used to that, I see no reason to stress them at lower than optimal temps.

Mr N

[FISHme]

82 is what I have been running . Swing of 80 to 83 with a chiller . 300 gal system with a 120 SPS tank . Man you can almost see the frikkin things grow Like a frikkin weed !!
Now fire the frikkin lazer !!!!!!

I would say if you keep your temp stable in about a 3 degree swing anywhere from the upper 70's to low 80's obviously frikkin works just fine.

[scubadude]

Originally posted by FISHme

I would say if you keep your temp stable in about a 3 degree swing anywhere from the upper 70's to low 80's obviously frikkin works just fine.

Totally agreed dude! I couldnt have said it better!

[golfish]

Awww, my favorite thread I did keep my tank at 80-84 and never had a problem, just lucky I guess. I added a chiller a few months ago and pretty much keep things 79-81, I have noticed a BIG change in growth rates. I'm not going to say my corals are growing faster because my temp are lower but it sure as hec points in that directon.

[npaden]

I personally run my tank from 78-82 in the winter and 80-84 in the summer. I don't have a chiller but have a total of 14 fans running on a temperature controller.

I can't imagine having better growth rates than I've had for the last 10 months. (since I added sps corals to the new tank).

Check out the growth of my yellow millepora in the last 8 months. The current pic is first (it's in the top center) and the pic from 8 1/2 months earlier second (same location as the first pic, just MUCH smaller). The remainder of the sps you see in the second pic all started as 1.5" frags that I added in late December.




I have pictures of it for nearly every month in between if you want to see some more pics of it's growth.

What does this prove? Nothing really. I seem to have good results running my tank at a certain temperature. Others have good results at other temperatures.

FWIW, Nathan

[Mr Neutron]

Don't forget that growth rates aren't just based on temps, you have things like water quality, lighting, additives, feeding etc.

[Elmo18]

I keep my tanks at 80-83 deg. Fahrenheit.

All things are fine, well except for that PetCo water i put in....baahh.

- Elmo

[golfish]

Originally posted by Mr Neutron
Don't forget that growth rates aren't just based on temps, you have things like water quality, lighting, additives, feeding etc.

In my case I doubt very much the growth rates had anything to do with feedings unless they grow faster with less food. I don't feed the corals at all and I've feed the fish less in the past few months because of a slime aglae problem (I've just about won that battle) Water quality hasn't changed an if anythng I have reduced the lighting. I swapped out my 2x250 watt DE HQI's for 2x400 watt Radiums. The coral color is better but SPS will probably grow faster under 250 watt DE HQI's them they will under 400 watt Radiums.

[Mr Neutron]

If you have lots of live rock and a DSB I'd say your corals are eating whether you know it or not - plankton, larvae, eggs, etc. In my tank I also add foods for smaller life forms and for corals and I'm sure the growth is better because of it.

[golfish]

Originally posted by Mr Neutron
If you have lots of live rock and a DSB I'd say your corals are eating whether you know it or not - plankton, larvae, eggs, etc. In my tank I also add foods for smaller life forms and for corals and I'm sure the growth is better because of it.

Nope, like I said I have changed nothing. Rock has always been there, the DSB has always been there. The only thing I have changed is the temp. Since then I have seen much faster growth.

I'm 99.9% sure the increase growth rates has nothing to do with food unless the floral\fauna has been multiplying faster under the lower temps. I know that corals get some food from the LR and DSB and also from the fish waste, thats pretty much a given.

My point has been I don't add any additives other then my two reactors, I don't feed the corals anything like DT's or Golden Pearls, The lighting has changed (lower par) but the growth rates were noted way before the lighting change... I have changed nothing cept the temp and the growth rates have increased ever since.

[Mr Neutron]

Originally posted by golfish


Nope, like I said I have changed nothing. Rock has always been there, the DSB has always been there. The only thing I have changed is the temp. Since then I have seen much faster growth.

That's my point - you have a well established mini ecosystem providing your corals with constant supplies of food. Just because you don't feed actively doesn't mean they aren't eating something and using that energy for growth.

[golfish]

Originally posted by Mr Neutron



That's my point - you have a well established mini ecosystem providing your corals with constant supplies of food. Just because you don't feed actively doesn't mean they aren't eating something and using that energy for growth.

Ok, I'm starting to think were not only on different pages but were not even reading the same book. I never said my corals weren't getting food, I simply said I wasn't feeding them. Anybody with a reef knows their corals get some food from the DSB and LR. Of course this food will help corals grow, that's the way life is. IME, the more your ABLE to feed the faster the growth rate. I said in one of my earlier post that I had cut down on fish feedings, that in no way ment that my corals were not getting some food just that I had cut down on feedings.

You keeping bring up points that have nothing to do with what I'm talking about.



My point is that after dropping temps I have noticed an increase in growth rates.

[scubadude]

Thats my point, in relation to your point, but your not understanding the point....LMAO you guys kill me....Are we spawning off into other topics here? (not that I mind) You guys did make me think about some things though, which I hate to change the subject of you guys debate...but im sure you wont mind....Put this in your pipe and smoke it

Does temp actually change our natural food chain? I say yes heat causes higher metabolism correct? Which in turn makes fish/coral burn more energy and grow faster which in turn eats more natural food? the part where im getting hung up on is do we need to contribute (feed) to this circle any? I saw one of the most elaborate, beautiful systems I have ever seen last nite CHAD you know, you where there! Danny's system (so Im told) is never fed! He just adds additives in the form of a CA reactor. We are all obviously trying to reach the "Butter Zone" where we dont have to feed our systems like Mark said but I think this can be trickier than we realize....sure our systems may appear healthy and thriving but are we just by saying that is a proper gauge of fitness to our tank?

Sorry just wanted to babble out a little

[golfish]

Rocky,
I'm all for feeding extra food to the corals if your system can handle it, mine can't right now. I think Mr Nutron miss understood when I talked about feeding in one of my post. And then the valid points he made had nothing to do with what I was referring too..Like I said, we weren't on the same page

I read all the time that people raise their temps and growth increases. Its just the opposite in my case.

[Mr Neutron]

"Mr Nutron"? I'm hoping that was a typo. LOL.

The gist of the matter is I question what the actual growth rate captive corals would have if fed actively rather than passively. I agree with Rocky that Dan's corals are really nice, I just think they would be even better with active feeding.

BTW golfish how much were you feeding to think that your slime algae outbreak came from that?

[golfish]

Originally posted by Mr Neutron
"Mr Nutron"? I'm hoping that was a typo. LOL.


BTW golfish how much were you feeding to think that your slime algae outbreak came from that?

lol, I missed the Nutron thing, it was a typo, sorry.

I never said the slime alage outbreak came from feeding, when it started getting worse I cut back. I'm not sure why I'm having this little problem. I'm pretty sure its not from feeding because I hardly ever feed and now its even less.

Just to add> I saw Tarcy Gray's SPS tank a few months ago. Its probably the best looking tank I have ever seen, he gets growth like you wouldn't believe, even Steve Tyree say's he's has to be using some kind of steroids. The man uses the same method I do> a calcium reactor, kalk reactor, water changes and feeds the fish. Oh yeah, he keeps his temp around 80.

I'm not saying temps up to 84-85 are bad because I have been there and done that without problems.