Help with new setup

BigLar · 05-16-2001, 11:04 AM

This summer I will be buying a new house. When I move, I want to move my 92gal corner reef into at least a 180gallon...I really want a 360[img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] We'll see what happens.
Anyway, I want to start designing the setup now and have some questions.

Here it goes:

Should I have my sump separate from the refugium? Some people have their refugium in their sump and some have them separate. What's the best way?

I plan on using SeaSwirls and no powerheads. Should I use a spray bar?

Should I add a closed loop too? Maybe a closed-loop with Sea-swirls and spray bar?

What should be larger, my sump or refugium? I want the refugium to be the main nutrient exporter. May run a small skimmer.

If I do a closed-loop, a sump, and a refugium, what size and how many pumps should I use. Would two Dolphin 3000's be overkill? This tank will have a lot of SPS, but will also have softies, LPS, and clams.

Please help me design this right the first time. Currently do not have a sump or refugium, so I do not have the experience needed.

I'm sure I will have other questions, but this is good for now.

------------------
-BigLar

**scubadude** · 05-16-2001, 11:08 AM

Hi BL [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

I would definately just make one tank as your Refugium/sump and just partition it.....Reefland is making some really nice sumps/refugiums for custom designing. And I would make two seperate flows one with the Seaswirls and one with a spray bar that way if one malfunctioned then you have the other as a backup [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] just my .02

fisherman · 05-16-2001, 11:11 AM

A usefull thing that you need to know, is that you have alot of space in your new house, the bigger tank is better.
The water will be more stable.

I have a 200g and am happy with the parameters.

In my opinion the best filtration is a DSB & Live rocks...
I have a sump/refugium and I am really sadisfied with the results.I know many people that had succes with a SUMP/REFUGIUM ...

BigLar · 05-16-2001, 11:25 AM

I am thinking about going with the All-Glass 180 w/overflows. What about doing a closed-loop with the SeaSwirls/spray bar and the sump return going through the holes in the overflow?

What about not having a sump, just a large refugium with a small pump for the return? Then use the closed loop for the main circulation.

I thought refugiums need a low turnover. How does this work if the refugium is in a sump with high turnover?

[This message has been edited by BigLar (edited 05-16-2001).]

05-16-2001, 12:05 PM

BigLar,

Reducing the flow through the refugium in a sump/refugium combo is accomplished by placing one drain line before the refuge, the second after. If your not using a skimmer then you could get away with just the refugium. A partitioned sump is made into a refugium by adding LS, LR and macros in one section, with an added area for skimmer, heaters, etc and the return pump (since a proper refugium would gravity feed).

Scott

BigLar · 05-16-2001, 05:35 PM

Please help with other questions.

------------------
-BigLar

djheywood · 05-16-2001, 08:01 PM

Hopefully Mark (Golfish) will chime in here, but he has a 150 with the ampmaster 3000 running on a closed loop to 2 3/4 inch (I think) seaswirls, and a mak or something running his overflow. He mentioned the ampmaster was way too strong for the size of his sump. Seems like a good way to go. If a pump fails you still have the other circulating the water in the tank. In your case you could then run a sump and/or refugium underneath with whatever flow you wanted knowing the closed loop is providing the majority of the circulation you need.

Good luck.

**golfish** · 05-17-2001, 06:55 AM

Hey guys,

From what I have heard Scott has been making some great Sump\refugium setups, If you plan a closed loop(I would)then one sump\refugium is the way to go. I use a Amp Master 3000 on a closed loop along with two 1" Sea Swirls. I use a spray bar on the sump return (Mag 12). If I could do it over and I still might, I would use two AM3000's.....

Mark

BigLar · 05-17-2001, 08:52 AM

Golfish,

Do you have 2 overflows? If so, are they both going to your sump, or is one going to the sump and the other to the closed loop?

I was thinking of having the new tank drilled with two additional holes in the upper back for the closed loop. The overflows would go to the sump.

I have a spare 50 gallon tank, would this be sufficient for a sump/refugium?

Do you have pictures?

------------------
-BigLar

djheywood · 05-17-2001, 10:26 AM

Question Mark, I thought the reason you made the closed loop was mainly due to your bubble problem re-entering your tank. If you replace the Mag12 with another Ampmaster 3000 won't you have the same problem again? Why are you unhappy with the Mag12, not enough flow?

------------------
http://www.ssaland.com/reefpages/reefhome.htm

**golfish** · 05-17-2001, 01:51 PM

BigLar,
Yes, I have two overflows and they both drain to the sump. We don't want to use the overflows in a closed loop because it would create too many bubbles. I use a U-tube made out of 1.5" PVC for my closed loop. I would have rather drilled the back of the tank like you suggested.....I think the 50 gal would be fine for your sump\refugium. If you can go bigger then by all means do so. The cost of a larger sump\acrylic tank is not that much and might be worth looking into, you can always look for a used one.....

Brian,
The Mag 12 is ok but it uses more juice then the AM3000 and adds more heat.....

Mark

Abet · 05-18-2001, 09:19 PM

Hi BL,
This is how I setup my 180, I have an overflow (modified durso pipes)with 2 return lines. Both lines have ball valves to regulate flow. One line with ball valve open halfway goes to 75gl refugium glass tank and the other with ball valve fully open to a 20gl sump (glass tank) with mag pump (submerged). I do not want to drill holes in these tanks so I have a small overflow to transfer water from my 75 refugium tank which is about 6 to 8 inches higher than 20 gl sump.
This way my 75 refugium can have 7-8" DSB, w/ water filled up to the max adding more gl capacity in the system and with a separate sump for heater and other miscellaneous gadgets in the future. I do not have to worry about bubbles, having the return lines and pump at opposite ends of the sump took care of that.

05-16-2001, 11:04 AM	#1
BigLar Council Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: US, MI Posts: 289	Help with new setup This summer I will be buying a new house. When I move, I want to move my 92gal corner reef into at least a 180gallon...I really want a 360[img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] We'll see what happens. Anyway, I want to start designing the setup now and have some questions. Here it goes: Should I have my sump separate from the refugium? Some people have their refugium in their sump and some have them separate. What's the best way? I plan on using SeaSwirls and no powerheads. Should I use a spray bar? Should I add a closed loop too? Maybe a closed-loop with Sea-swirls and spray bar? What should be larger, my sump or refugium? I want the refugium to be the main nutrient exporter. May run a small skimmer. If I do a closed-loop, a sump, and a refugium, what size and how many pumps should I use. Would two Dolphin 3000's be overkill? This tank will have a lot of SPS, but will also have softies, LPS, and clams. Please help me design this right the first time. Currently do not have a sump or refugium, so I do not have the experience needed. I'm sure I will have other questions, but this is good for now. ------------------ -BigLar

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05-16-2001, 11:08 AM	#2
scubadude Moderator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wichita, Kansas Posts: 5,315	Hi BL [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] I would definately just make one tank as your Refugium/sump and just partition it.....Reefland is making some really nice sumps/refugiums for custom designing. And I would make two seperate flows one with the Seaswirls and one with a spray bar that way if one malfunctioned then you have the other as a backup [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] just my .02

05-16-2001, 11:11 AM	#3
fisherman Council Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: malta Posts: 307	A usefull thing that you need to know, is that you have alot of space in your new house, the bigger tank is better. The water will be more stable. I have a 200g and am happy with the parameters. In my opinion the best filtration is a DSB & Live rocks... I have a sump/refugium and I am really sadisfied with the results.I know many people that had succes with a SUMP/REFUGIUM ...

05-16-2001, 11:25 AM	#4
BigLar Council Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: US, MI Posts: 289	I am thinking about going with the All-Glass 180 w/overflows. What about doing a closed-loop with the SeaSwirls/spray bar and the sump return going through the holes in the overflow? What about not having a sump, just a large refugium with a small pump for the return? Then use the closed loop for the main circulation. I thought refugiums need a low turnover. How does this work if the refugium is in a sump with high turnover? [This message has been edited by BigLar (edited 05-16-2001).]

05-16-2001, 12:05 PM	#5
reefland Guest Posts: n/a	BigLar, Reducing the flow through the refugium in a sump/refugium combo is accomplished by placing one drain line before the refuge, the second after. If your not using a skimmer then you could get away with just the refugium. A partitioned sump is made into a refugium by adding LS, LR and macros in one section, with an added area for skimmer, heaters, etc and the return pump (since a proper refugium would gravity feed). Scott

05-16-2001, 05:35 PM	#6
BigLar Council Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: US, MI Posts: 289	Please help with other questions. ------------------ -BigLar

05-16-2001, 08:01 PM	#7
djheywood Council Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: El Segundo, CA Posts: 367	Hopefully Mark (Golfish) will chime in here, but he has a 150 with the ampmaster 3000 running on a closed loop to 2 3/4 inch (I think) seaswirls, and a mak or something running his overflow. He mentioned the ampmaster was way too strong for the size of his sump. Seems like a good way to go. If a pump fails you still have the other circulating the water in the tank. In your case you could then run a sump and/or refugium underneath with whatever flow you wanted knowing the closed loop is providing the majority of the circulation you need. Good luck.

05-17-2001, 06:55 AM	#8
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	Hey guys, From what I have heard Scott has been making some great Sump\refugium setups, If you plan a closed loop(I would)then one sump\refugium is the way to go. I use a Amp Master 3000 on a closed loop along with two 1" Sea Swirls. I use a spray bar on the sump return (Mag 12). If I could do it over and I still might, I would use two AM3000's..... Mark

05-17-2001, 08:52 AM	#9
BigLar Council Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: US, MI Posts: 289	Golfish, Do you have 2 overflows? If so, are they both going to your sump, or is one going to the sump and the other to the closed loop? I was thinking of having the new tank drilled with two additional holes in the upper back for the closed loop. The overflows would go to the sump. I have a spare 50 gallon tank, would this be sufficient for a sump/refugium? Do you have pictures? ------------------ -BigLar

05-17-2001, 10:26 AM	#10
djheywood Council Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: El Segundo, CA Posts: 367	Question Mark, I thought the reason you made the closed loop was mainly due to your bubble problem re-entering your tank. If you replace the Mag12 with another Ampmaster 3000 won't you have the same problem again? Why are you unhappy with the Mag12, not enough flow? ------------------ http://www.ssaland.com/reefpages/reefhome.htm

05-17-2001, 01:51 PM	#11
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	BigLar, Yes, I have two overflows and they both drain to the sump. We don't want to use the overflows in a closed loop because it would create too many bubbles. I use a U-tube made out of 1.5" PVC for my closed loop. I would have rather drilled the back of the tank like you suggested.....I think the 50 gal would be fine for your sump\refugium. If you can go bigger then by all means do so. The cost of a larger sump\acrylic tank is not that much and might be worth looking into, you can always look for a used one..... Brian, The Mag 12 is ok but it uses more juice then the AM3000 and adds more heat..... Mark

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05-18-2001, 09:19 PM	#12
Abet Just Moved In Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: jacksonville, FL Posts: 24	Hi BL, This is how I setup my 180, I have an overflow (modified durso pipes)with 2 return lines. Both lines have ball valves to regulate flow. One line with ball valve open halfway goes to 75gl refugium glass tank and the other with ball valve fully open to a 20gl sump (glass tank) with mag pump (submerged). I do not want to drill holes in these tanks so I have a small overflow to transfer water from my 75 refugium tank which is about 6 to 8 inches higher than 20 gl sump. This way my 75 refugium can have 7-8" DSB, w/ water filled up to the max adding more gl capacity in the system and with a separate sump for heater and other miscellaneous gadgets in the future. I do not have to worry about bubbles, having the return lines and pump at opposite ends of the sump took care of that.