LR, not so alive...why?

Fcamdog · 10-30-2001, 04:22 PM

Living in Hawaii I can't have a reef tank. It's not too bad though because I can just go snorkling for hours at a time and see a beautiful reef 10 minutes from my house. What I have noticed is that pieces of LR, or reef rubble, that sits in the shallows and on the reef flats are COVERED with macro-algae and tons of other life. Why do we hobbyists get such dead rock when we order LR back on the mainland? If fish and inverts are shipped bagged in oxygen, why isn't LR offered the same way for sale? I know it would be expensive, but people would only buy a few pieces to liven up their tanks, like seeding your tank. I was so excited when I got my first shipment of LR for my first reef tank and now I think back on it and am kind of dissappointed with what I got. This was just a thought and I wonder how many other people would like the option to buy a couple of pieces of truly live rock if it was offered?

MarkS · 10-30-2001, 05:48 PM

Simple. Shipping costs.

You have it shipped from the collection site to the wholeseller to the retailer and then possibly to the customer if it is a MO order.

The rock is not shipped it water for this reason. Water is VERY heavy and so are the rocks. It cuts down on shipping costs not to add water, but the trade off is the amount of die off.

Some people might not mind paying $25+ for a pound of live rock, myself included, if it is covered in life, but very few of those people can afford it.

Mark

Fcamdog · 10-30-2001, 07:12 PM

I did mention the expense in my post, it would be, but the trade off if well worth it. One five pound rock, covered with life should be worth $25 to me. How many other people would it be worth to? When I move back to the mainland I would like the option.

MarkS · 10-30-2001, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fcamdog
I did mention the expense in my post, it would be, but the trade off if well worth it. One five pound rock, covered with life should be worth $25 to me.

Not one $25 FIVE pound rock. One $25 ONE pound rock.

It would be worth it to me too, but I can hardly afford it at current prices.

Quote:

Originally posted by Fcamdog
How many other people would it be worth to?

Good question, but I guarantee not many. I would not start a business selling very live live rock for $25+ per pound.

Quote:

Originally posted by Fcamdog
When I move back to the mainland I would like the option.

Talk to a wholeseller. MaryMH on this board would be a good person to talk to. What you are asking is not impossible, but unusual and difficult.

Mark

organicreefer · 10-30-2001, 07:24 PM

well actually, that five pound rock @25$ per pound would be 125 plus tax

you could buy all the "life" seperately for less i would imagine

MarkS · 10-30-2001, 07:47 PM

Organicreefer makes a very good point.

Almost, if not all, of the life that you want would be available separately and much cheaper. It would be better to seed the rock with external life than pay so much for a rock that already has it on/in it.

Not to mention that most of the life that you saw in the ocean would probably reck havoc in the confines of a tiny glass box.

Mark

David · 10-30-2001, 10:15 PM

Fcamdog- I am back in states one year after living on St Thomas for 12. Yes, what they call "live rock" here is laughable. What's even more outrageous is that you have to BUY it. Unbelievable! For islanders, collecting is more than half the fun, but the harsh realities of simple economics make it impossible to ship that fresh rock and keep it alive. The die off alone would ruin it. IMO $25 / pound isn't even realistic. Then you have to consider the "downside" of that rock in closed systems. There is simply too much life for most tanks to handle, I had horrible algae problems and spent hours each day trying to get mantis shrimp and other predators out of my tanks. I think you need about 100 gallons per pound of "real live rock" to make it work.
On the other hand, no amount of "seeding with external life" is going to make this dead crap we have here look like real LR. Real LR looks like a flower boquet, you shouldn't be able to see any "rock" at all, just fan worms, feather dusters, christmas trees and macros. Oh well, it's all relative. The "dead crap" we have here is what there is so we all accept it as "live" and do the best we can.

wastedincome420 · 10-31-2001, 12:00 AM

Hey Fcamdog...Did you say you can't
have a reef tank in hawiai? How come?????

**kevinpo** · 10-31-2001, 12:08 AM

They are afraid that non native species would be released into the wild and cause havoc for the native populations.

Kevin

MarkS · 10-31-2001, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wastedincome420
Hey Fcamdog...Did you say you can't
have a reef tank in hawiai? How come?????

It's illegal to keep corals or live rock, whether native to Hawaii or not, on Hawaii unless you can prove it is for scientific reasons. In fact, I think it is illegal even to keep marine fish if they are native to Hawaii; although I could be wrong on that point.

Sad, isn't it?

Mark

I was going to type "Thank God I live in America" and then it hit me!

Really is a very sad law!

**kevinpo** · 10-31-2001, 12:18 AM

Yes, even native animals are illegal to keep. Very sad! I wanted to live in Maui but I could not give up my reef (OK maybe if I could work at the Waikiki Aquarium

wastedincome420 · 10-31-2001, 12:22 AM

Well thats helps explain alot to me.......The person I bought my
new 105g set-up and who gave me my 58g with LR and fish
just moved there. When he gave me the 58g he wasn't planning
on selling the 105g then all of a sudden called me said it's for sale
So with out much thought I bought it. Hope I got a good deal

Wastedincome420@aol.com

Fcamdog · 10-31-2001, 11:32 AM

Almost all of the fish you can keep. I have a tank set-up with "dead" rock, white old dead LR collected from the beach. My dead rock is alive by now but not very colorful yet. A good trade off was that my live sand was free, just collected it at the 5 gallon bucket maximum per day. Macro-algae is just a swim away, along with quite a few non-coral inverts that are okay to keep. At one point I had like 5 feather dusters, then it got boring and I put 4 back in the ocean.
Point being, I would like to see a real piece of live rock for sale when I get back to the mainland and I believe a five pound piece could be shipped over, with profit for the person, for only around $35. That would be worth it to me and if you saw what I do here it would be to you as well.

Wind · 10-31-2001, 12:30 PM

Hey. Fcamdog. Where on the same boat. Well, since your moving back to the mainland, then you got nothing to worry about.. all it is is time.. I have 2 dusters.

10-30-2001, 04:22 PM	#1
Fcamdog Just Moved In Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Oahu Posts: 47	LR, not so alive...why? Living in Hawaii I can't have a reef tank. It's not too bad though because I can just go snorkling for hours at a time and see a beautiful reef 10 minutes from my house. What I have noticed is that pieces of LR, or reef rubble, that sits in the shallows and on the reef flats are COVERED with macro-algae and tons of other life. Why do we hobbyists get such dead rock when we order LR back on the mainland? If fish and inverts are shipped bagged in oxygen, why isn't LR offered the same way for sale? I know it would be expensive, but people would only buy a few pieces to liven up their tanks, like seeding your tank. I was so excited when I got my first shipment of LR for my first reef tank and now I think back on it and am kind of dissappointed with what I got. This was just a thought and I wonder how many other people would like the option to buy a couple of pieces of truly live rock if it was offered? __________________ "Never enough aquariums in a room."

10-30-2001, 05:48 PM	#2
MarkS Governor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: San Antonio, Tx Posts: 1,799	Simple. Shipping costs. You have it shipped from the collection site to the wholeseller to the retailer and then possibly to the customer if it is a MO order. The rock is not shipped it water for this reason. Water is VERY heavy and so are the rocks. It cuts down on shipping costs not to add water, but the trade off is the amount of die off. Some people might not mind paying $25+ for a pound of live rock, myself included, if it is covered in life, but very few of those people can afford it. Mark __________________ 2 + 2 != 4 Two is only loosely associated with two by a plus sign and therefore doesn't enter the equation at all since it is only there by mere complicity. We shouldn't count it and leave well enough alone.

10-30-2001, 07:12 PM	#3
Fcamdog Just Moved In Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Oahu Posts: 47	I did mention the expense in my post, it would be, but the trade off if well worth it. One five pound rock, covered with life should be worth $25 to me. How many other people would it be worth to? When I move back to the mainland I would like the option. __________________ "Never enough aquariums in a room."

10-30-2001, 07:47 PM	#6
MarkS Governor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: San Antonio, Tx Posts: 1,799	Organicreefer makes a very good point. Almost, if not all, of the life that you want would be available separately and much cheaper. It would be better to seed the rock with external life than pay so much for a rock that already has it on/in it. Not to mention that most of the life that you saw in the ocean would probably reck havoc in the confines of a tiny glass box. Mark __________________ 2 + 2 != 4 Two is only loosely associated with two by a plus sign and therefore doesn't enter the equation at all since it is only there by mere complicity. We shouldn't count it and leave well enough alone.

10-31-2001, 12:08 AM	#9
kevinpo Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Spokane Valley WA Posts: 2,438	They are afraid that non native species would be released into the wild and cause havoc for the native populations. Kevin __________________ SPSguy On - On

10-30-2001, 07:24 PM	#5
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	well actually, that five pound rock @25$ per pound would be 125 plus tax you could buy all the "life" seperately for less i would imagine

10-30-2001, 10:15 PM	#7
David Citizen Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: San Diego Posts: 210	Fcamdog- I am back in states one year after living on St Thomas for 12. Yes, what they call "live rock" here is laughable. What's even more outrageous is that you have to BUY it. Unbelievable! For islanders, collecting is more than half the fun, but the harsh realities of simple economics make it impossible to ship that fresh rock and keep it alive. The die off alone would ruin it. IMO $25 / pound isn't even realistic. Then you have to consider the "downside" of that rock in closed systems. There is simply too much life for most tanks to handle, I had horrible algae problems and spent hours each day trying to get mantis shrimp and other predators out of my tanks. I think you need about 100 gallons per pound of "real live rock" to make it work. On the other hand, no amount of "seeding with external life" is going to make this dead crap we have here look like real LR. Real LR looks like a flower boquet, you shouldn't be able to see any "rock" at all, just fan worms, feather dusters, christmas trees and macros. Oh well, it's all relative. The "dead crap" we have here is what there is so we all accept it as "live" and do the best we can.

10-31-2001, 12:00 AM	#8
wastedincome420 Council Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NH Posts: 270	Hey Fcamdog...Did you say you can't have a reef tank in hawiai? How come?????

10-31-2001, 12:18 AM	#11
kevinpo Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Spokane Valley WA Posts: 2,438	Yes, even native animals are illegal to keep. Very sad! I wanted to live in Maui but I could not give up my reef (OK maybe if I could work at the Waikiki Aquarium __________________ SPSguy On - On

10-31-2001, 12:22 AM	#12
wastedincome420 Council Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NH Posts: 270	Well thats helps explain alot to me.......The person I bought my new 105g set-up and who gave me my 58g with LR and fish just moved there. When he gave me the 58g he wasn't planning on selling the 105g then all of a sudden called me said it's for sale So with out much thought I bought it. Hope I got a good deal Wastedincome420@aol.com

10-31-2001, 11:32 AM	#13
Fcamdog Just Moved In Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Oahu Posts: 47	Almost all of the fish you can keep. I have a tank set-up with "dead" rock, white old dead LR collected from the beach. My dead rock is alive by now but not very colorful yet. A good trade off was that my live sand was free, just collected it at the 5 gallon bucket maximum per day. Macro-algae is just a swim away, along with quite a few non-coral inverts that are okay to keep. At one point I had like 5 feather dusters, then it got boring and I put 4 back in the ocean. Point being, I would like to see a real piece of live rock for sale when I get back to the mainland and I believe a five pound piece could be shipped over, with profit for the person, for only around $35. That would be worth it to me and if you saw what I do here it would be to you as well. __________________ "Never enough aquariums in a room."

10-31-2001, 12:30 PM	#14
Wind Council Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: 90 Gallon (setting up) Posts: 330	Hey. Fcamdog. Where on the same boat. Well, since your moving back to the mainland, then you got nothing to worry about.. all it is is time.. I have 2 dusters.

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