Iodized salt (Table Salt)

[midnighttoker]

adding iodized salt in my tank will (choose one)
a) kill everything
b) add a source of iodine
c) your stupid
;)

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've thought of this before too, but the problem has always been other ingredients to get better flow of salt in high humidity, etc. See if the label has any phosphates or silica (or anything else). Depending on what's there, it might be a good choice.

[eses]

As long as it doesn't have anything else added, it would be safe, but I wouldn't bother using it to produce seawater if thats what your going for. If you just want to add iodine, I would use iodine to do so, using salt will just slowly raise your salinity and it is easier to measure out the iodine doses with a supplement or iodine solution.

[Biomanjcs72]

BAD, REALLY BAD IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It probably wouldn't affect much of anything at first, but here's the deal: the sea salt you buy to make up your tank water has hundreds of different salt ions in it. TAble salt has two or three (NaCl, NaI, KI) to name a few. What happens is this: you begin to skew your ion concentrations of the salt mixture, and, over time, this imbalance grows (in spite of water changes), it will eventually be harmful to your critters.
If you want Iodine, add golden pearls or straight lugol's, those will be much easier to deal with and won't eventually kill your critters.

JMHO, HTH

JCS

[asmith]

Change option C to read "This action would be stupid," (the current wording would be a personal attack if I used it) and the answer is all of the above. Don't do it, please.

Andrew

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No, one would never make salt water with it. The idea, as I interpret it (and have considered suggeesting it to people who are doing things on the ultra cheap), is to add small amounts as a cheap source of iodide. FWIW, the concentration is fairly high, so it takes relatively little to supplement a reef tank. You would not be adding enough to skew anything substantial.

[midnighttoker]

andy is it?
your the first one to catch c)
very good

[midnighttoker]

guys c) should be "you are" or "you're"
I feel stupid to make that mistake.

[Biomanjcs72]

Even in small amounts, over time, the ion concentrations will become more and more skewed.

A good analogy is a Biomagnification example: freshwater catfish are bottom feeders (some are anyway and for the purposes of this ex., I'm talking about the bottom feeders) they eat little mussells, FW shrimp, etc. as their food source (in addition to scavenging). Tests show that these fish, have VERY high levels of toxins (like Dioxin) in their bodies, much higher than is found in their environment. The reason for this is, as they eat the little mussells, etc. that make up their diet, the toxins in the food item enter their body and do not leave it with any degree of efficiency, so OVER TIME, the level of toxin in their bodies becomes very high.

If you add table salt to your tank, OVER TIME, the same thing will happen.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sure, so 15,000 years from now, the sodium concentration has risen from 10,760 ppm to 10,761 ppm. Obviously, that's hyperbole, but my point is, you cannot say how skewed something will get without knowing how much sodium and chloride will be added.

I'll be happy to work through the numbers if anyone really cares, but Craig already showed how much the skewing really takes place for the relatively large CaCl2/NaHCO3 additions that some use, and I expect that the skewing from using traces of table salt to add iodide to a reef tank will be substantially lower.

[Biomanjcs72]

My only point is that you are dealing with unknowns, you don't know how much skewing you're doing because I doubt very seriously that you'd find any salt manufacturer that could give you the exact % of the chemicals in their salts, factor in impurities (food grade is the least pure you know (I also know that's what KENT uses))

My basic and only point was that it's an unknown, and you don't know (to some degree) what chemicals your critters are intolerant to.

Bottom line Don't do it unless you want to risk killing your critters.

and no, it's not immediately detrimental, I once kept two sheepshead minnows alive overnight with table salt when I didn't have any IO around, but again, that's only for one night, and sheepshead minnows are baitfish not $150 angel fish or the like.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I certainly agree that if you don't know what something is, don't add it. And I certainly have never added table salt. I add NaI. However, I think we can narrow down the possibilities a bit:

This is from the salt institute's website
( http://www.saltinstitute.org/iodide.html )


" Iodized salt is prepared by adding 0.006-0.01 % potassium iodide (KI). "

To raise 100 L of seawater from zero to 0.02 ppm iodide (i.e., none to NSW levels), you would have to add

0.02 mg/L * 100 L = 2 mg of iodide

Since this salt is about 0.01% by weight (maybe 0.08% I-), that's a total of 20,000 mg of salt, or about 20 g.

Salt is about 39% Na+ and 61% Chloride

So you will add about 8 g of Na and 12 g of Cl-.

In this 100 L there is already 1,760 g of sodium and 1,935 grams of chloride.

So one addition raises the sodium from 1,760 to 1,768 g.

If we compare this amount to the amount that Craig used in his study, this corresponds to about the 2 kg/m2/yr-1 calcification case. At his web site, you can see how much skewing is caused by this case: with 10% monthly water changes thrown in, the skewing over a 1 YEAR period is very small indeed, and less than the variability between starting salt mixes.

[Biomanjcs72]

Now, Randy Holmes-Farley, would you please go back, and add to your equation the additions of the anticaking agents and the agents used to stop the release of free iodine also mentioned on the VERY link you posted One of which is Tricalcium Phosphate, Now, I don't know many people that wish to actively introduce phosphates into their system, further, another mentioned is Dextrose, a type of sugar, how many folks have added sugar (I realize these are in very small amounts, but they are and can be there.)

ATENTION: Anyone who wants to add table salt to theit system, Go look at the link Mr. Holmes Farley posted in his above post, and decide if you wish to add Sodium Thiosulfate, Dextrose and other stabilizing agents and such to their aquaria for a "cheap" source of Iodine. Keeping in mind that you can go by Lugols solution from a chemical distributer cheaper than you can get the same amount of iodine from table salt.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey before you blast me, maybe you should read my first post in this thread where I stated that is EXACTLY why I would NOT use table salt:

" I've thought of this before too, but the problem has always been other ingredients to get better flow of salt in high humidity, etc. See if the label has any phosphates or silica (or anything else). ":

[Biomanjcs72]

So why then are you arguing so stringently that its a good idea?

My only intention was not to make someone think that this was a good and preferable idea. There are many things you can add to your tank that won't have an immediate or perhaps long term detrimental effect, but that doesn't mean they are to be added.

That's all, I wasn't trying to offend you, attack your character, or anything like that, and I apologise if I did so.

Peace-

-John

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I never said it was a good idea. I was pointing out that the concern that it was bad because of ion imbalancing was not the problem.

[Biomanjcs72]

Very well then, lets leave it with it's not a good idea because of Impurities. Is that good for you?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yep

[midnighttoker]

I know the answer was no before I posted this subject. No way I would be foolish enough to add table salt without first asking the board. I am informed now thank you everyone.