[Firefish]

I'm amazed that people want to "try" to use ingredients found at the supermarket to husband their reef tanks Table salt to add iodine, baking soda for buffer etc...Is this because you dont want to spring the $10-$15 and order a product specifically made for a reef tank or because people just want to try somthing new on their $2000(modest) reef inhabitants. I spend roughly $300 a year on chemicals and salt to husband my 155 reef tank full of corals, rock and fish. Keeping a reef thriving is difficult enough I'd think without all the guess work involved in using food designed to bake a cake. My old man is a chemistry professor here at a local college and it never crosses my mind to try to figure out how to substitute lime for a calcium supplement to save $5. Not intended to be a flame, but when I hear about someone dropping a multi-vitamin in their reef I wonder where their logic is derived from

[Ltspd]

Why would I want to pay 15.00 a lb for Kalk at a LFS when I can buy mrs wages for 2.00 /lb?

If you got the money buy what you want. Some of us are trying to maintain reef tanks along with family's on modest incomes.

[organicreefer]

in some cases(as with the lime) its the same stuff anyway.

[Firefish]

I can understand the lime/calcium thing but iodized salt....baking powder! I mean c'mon, most of this stuff is cheap! I cant believe the thread "Iodized salt (Table Salt) " Biomanjcs72, IMO gave some good advice, then you got R.H.F. wanting to go through the "numbers" with anyone who thinks table salt is a bad idea. You can buy a half gallon of super concentrated liquid calcium with iodine supplement for $25 that will last six months if not for a year(in my case). Unless you have a 500 or 1000 gallon tank full of sps frags.

[addicted2fish]

Part of the reason I look for substitutes is resentment over the fact that they jack the price up 500% because it has the word "reef" on the label.

[eses]

Sometimes you can find something cheaper in the market than you can at the LFS or mail order. Example, you can either spend $10 on "Lugol's Solution" (potassium iodine) or you can spend $2.99 for the same container with the same exact amounts at the drug store.

I can spend $15.99 on a small flat of large krill at the LFS, which is only like 1/4 of a pound or less, or I can goto the asian market down the street and buy a full pound for $4.

Also I think the posts regarding baking powder come from old school methods of working on freshwater systems. I used to use baking powder to raise the Ph of my freshwater systems, if you go into any LFS they will probably say you can.

There is nothing wrong with asking about it. I think we all got from the Iodized salt (Table Salt) topic that it is basically easier just to buy iodine.

[MarkS]

Originally posted by addicted2fish
Part of the reason I look for substitutes is resentment over the fact that they jack the price up 500% because it has the word "reef" on the label.

Exactly! That's why I try to search out any new substitute.

We get screwed all the time because we buy the stuff for aquariums.

Let's see:

1. Southdown sand is mined in the same place, by the same company as CaribSea's sand. Southdown is marketed for playgrounds. It costs $3-$4. CaribSea is marketed to aquariums. It costs $30+.
2. Kent's kalk costs around $30 for a few ounces. It is food grade pickling lime. I can by one pound of food grade pickling lime at my local grocery store for a little less than $2.
3. I can go to www.bulbsa2z.com and other places and get a MH ballast from 70 watts to 1500 watts for around $30 - $75. I can get the same thing from IceCap, Lampsnow and other "aquarium" lighting manufactures for no less than $300.
4. I can buy a pound of Iodized salt for $.38 at my local grocery store. Iodine for an aquarium costs how much? $30+? If it really will not harm my tank, why would I want to spend $30 for the aquarium version?

There are more examples, but I do not remember them.

Myself and others are tired of getting screwed because we keep a glass box with water and little fishies. If you want to pay premium for the same stuff, then good for you. In the mean time, I am going to take the savings and buy a new tank.

Mark

[Penguin]

Part of the reason I look for substitutes is resentment over the fact that they jack the price up 500% because it has the word "reef" on the label.

Exactly. If I know of ways of saving money on my tank, I'm going to use them, rather than trusting that the product manufacturers know best. I'm not saying use iodized salt to make up your tank water, but for stuff that's the same thing, just in a different package, why not? Baking soda (which is NOT the same thing as baking powder) is pure NaHCO3, the main ingredient in the commercial buffers. $30 for a bag of aragonite? No, thank you, I'll take the Southdown. 3 bucks a bag, baby!!

[icemark]

Hey I am using eastern littleneck clams (Tapes Phillup.) in my 60 gal right now as sand bed stirring creatures, that I bought for 2 dozen for $3.50 at my local "supermarket".

Vs the $60 per dozen including shipping from a certain retailer/ wholesaler in Hawaii.

I have Southdown in my system. Granted I paid $ .75 an lb including shipping, but that is less than any of the LFS in my area, who want $1.50 an lb for sand.

If you can get it cheaper why not? I am not made of money.

That’s what the logic comes from.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Firefish:


<< then you got R.H.F. wanting to go through the "numbers" with anyone who thinks table salt is a bad idea. >>

Some people appreciate actual facts......and some don't. If you prefer opinion to fact, so be it.

FWIW, the cost of my tank means nothing to me, and I spend no time whatsoever trying to find ways to make it cheaper. But, if someone asks a chemistry question that I can answer, I'll always give it a whack.

[Firefish]

I wasn't talking about sand or food, rather table salt and baking soda instead of iodine and ph buffer. I would've answered the question about table salt as follows: Specific chemistry aside, (because who really cares unless you have a PHD in chemistry) and following the K.I.S.S. rule, you'd be better off buying an iodine supplement. See, nice and simple. This wasn't meant to be a flame to anyone, I just wanted to know why people didn't spring 24.99 for a 64 oz. bottle of calcium/iodine supplement and keep it simple with minimal guess work. I understand the old timers did thinghs this way but reef keeping has come a long way. I think it's worth the couple extra bucks to keep things simple. I've actually learned a few things from this thread.

[rayjay]

I follow the K.I.S.S. rule to the point where I don't bother to add iodine in any form. For that matter, I don't add trace elements of any kind, other than those added when feeding the fish (in the form of food).
I add only calcium hydroxide, which I DON'T get in the supermarket, but at the local farm co-op. BEFORE purchasing this product, I contacted the producer, to get assurances that the product didn't have contaminates that would adversly affect my tanks.
The reason for the "substitution" for kalk, is the quantities (1 cup a week) I use and therefore the costs.
In my area a pound of kalk sells for almost $30 compared to the 13 cents a pound for the "replacement" product.
To ME, this is "logical" reasoning for using this particular product.

Whoops! I just remembered. I also buy Nori from the local Asian Food store. That's because I get maybe 8 times as much for 1/4 the cost.

[midnighttoker]

Speciality stores in general, have much higher sales gross margin in order to stay in business. they also buy from wholesalers instead of manufacturers to avoid large orders. wholesalers also charges a large margin. If the same products can be found at a supermarket or discount store it would be cheaper, a lot cheaper. Large discount stores like wal-mart buy direct from manufactures and they also have great bargining power, as matter of fact they are also distributors to other companies.

[midnighttoker]

maybe some of us have busy lives, and not price sensentive. It would be great if we can pick up some thing for our tank at the same time we do our food shopping. supermarkets knows the importantance of time that is why they added banks, drug stores, flourist, video stores, and who know whats next.

[stang69]

Money you save in the supermarket more money to spend at the reef shop IMO

Jeff

[SamiLynne]

I have to agree with everyone and say its resentment of the prices getting jacked up because they say reef on the label. My husband and I buy our fish from a wholesaler, we have a connection for acrylic tanks and we built our own stand for one tank. Keeping a reef is a learning experience and an expensive hobby. Its fun to see what you're knowledge and experience find in the local supermarket. We spent an evening making our own fish food and our fish liked it better than the stuff we could have bought. We bought squid from a local upscale supermarket, noori from an asian market and a bunch of other stuff, blended it all together and froze it in ice cube trays...after that we had food for both our tanks for almost three months for less than twenty bucks. Saltwater is also a growing hobby it started with supermarket substitutes...I don't see that much guesswork being involved.

Anyway, I must be in a rambling mood...I'll shut up now

[ranaman]

For example if you know what your doing you can make your own miracle copper based cure. I found citric acid in the canning section of the grocery and copper sulfate you can find in most hardware stores as a root killer , just check for the active ingredient copper sulfate pentahydrate. In Florida they sell Damp-rid as a humidity control, all this is calicum chloride prills, that looks like what is sold as 'Turbo-Calcium" Can you find higher quality CaCl yes, is the stuff at the fish shop better, don't bet on it. However one can point out if southdown sand wipes out your tank, you won't get sympathy from the store. Caribsea might back their sand if there was a bad batch since you used it for the use it was intended. BTW I might have to go to Miami soon, I can make up some bottles of well water and sell them as trace element supplements, they should have a higher concentration of trace elements than the store brand.
How are the seafood Tapes phillipanarum doing? I thinking of ordering some from Taylor Seafood Company.

[mgk65]

Sometimes, it is just the challenge of hanging onto some hard earned cash!

I'm going to buy Mrs. Wage's Pickling Lime for $1.50/lb instead of $15-30/lb for other kalkwasser. In fact, I'm going to use food grade distilled vinegar to boost the dissolution of my limewater.

I'm going to use Southdown Sand for $4 for 50 lbs.

I'm going to use baking soda and washing soda.

I'm not going to supplement unneeded products like strontium/molybednum/etc.

I am going to make my own food, when convenient.

I am going to read the boards here.


mgk