[RudeBoy]

Can someone help me out. I'd like to know what is going on in my tank that is causing one side of my substarte to harden almost like concrete. What's the deal? I've heard something about a tank reaching it's saturation point... what does this mean and is this what's happening in my tank???? HELP!!!!

[the_blue_tuna]

whats your Ca level? sounds like that could be your problem.

[RudeBoy]

My Cal. is at 350, my Alk is 3.0 and my Ph is 8.2. I use the 2 part EVS system everyday.

[RudeBoy]

My Cal. is at 350, my Alk is 3.0 and my Ph is 8.2. I use the 2 part EVS system everyday.

[Ironreef]

Not enough life in the sandbed. is there??

[Ninong]

RudeBoy,

I looked at pics of your tank on your website. It is a nice looking 29-gal tank but, IMO, your 3/4" sandbed is inadequate. Also, the grain size is much too large; in fact, it appears to be crushed coral.

That sort of substrate is inadequate as far as providing the proper habitat for beneficial sand bed infauna because it is not deep enough and the particle size is too large. A sand bed composed of very fine grain aragonite that is 4" deep would have been a better choice.

The reason your substrate is hardening is due to excessive bacterial growth. The bacteria secrete a substance that acts like glue to stick the grains together. If you had a deep sand bed made up of very fine grain aragonite, populated by a diverse infauna, the bacteria would be held in check by the sand bed infauna that consume the bacteria.

The best long term solution to your problem is to remove your present substrate entirely and throw it away before it causes problems. You could go with a completely bare bottom tank--a la the original Berlin method--or install a new 4" deep sand bed using very fine grain aragonite. I think the 4" fine grain sand bed is a better idea. Check out this article on deep sand beds: http://www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm


Ninong

[naser]

4 inches is much too deep. id suggest you just try to move the sand bed around like once a month. you could remove the crushed coral and go with a sand bed but especially in a 29 gallon tank you dont want to waste what inches you have with sand.

[eses]

I have a 29 gallon also, my sand bed is 2" deep and is more than adaquate. Anything over that, while could be beneficial, looks entirely too deep on a tank that small. On your site though you mentioned you wanted a much space as possible, which is why you went with the argonite. If you want to stick with that, your going to need to stir up and clean your gravel and treat it like it isn't a filter of any kind. I think your tank would benefit from a sand bed though, you'll appreciate it in the end when you have "more stuff" growing in the tank.

I am impressed you can keep those fish together in that tank without them killing each other. My clown would never tolerate that close of quarters.

[RudeBoy]

WOW!!! Thanks for all the input folks. Fortunately, only the left side of my tank is hardening (right now), which is probably about 15% of the total tank. I'm noticing that my aragonite is turning purble and dark colors (not all over)... almost like choroline algae is growing on it. I do have a lot of activity in my sandbed as far as pods and what not. But, I think I messed up when I added another layer of aragonite on top of my existing bed about 3 months ago. I was hoping to have a white colored sandbed instead of a sandy brown, but, right now I'll settle for what's BEST for my fish. They get along well, even though my one clown pretty much bosses everyone except my flame. So, if I add new sand, do I totally get rid of the existing bed?

[Ironreef]

What Ninong said was the same thing i said but the longer version. You may not want a deep bed if you aren't using it for denitfifying for you should use fine grade and seed it with live sand or activator. the purple alga is probally slime= not good =to much nutrients ,not enough aeriation, tanks new and not established, bioload was introduced to fast, any # of things. The cc if you keep it you need to vac suck it or just get rid of it and use LS and don't vac suck but let the animals do the work for you

[BlueWater]

As for DSB..> I've got a question... I was going to do a
DSB when I make my new tank in January. My LFS guy said that he
has had customers come in talking about their DSB's hardening up
and cracking the glass. And he said I shouldnt make one so deep.

So a DSB and CC for the purpose of hardening up, could have that
same hardening effect?

[RudeBoy]

No, it's definitely not slime, I know the difference. I went through that already this summer with the 105 degree days we were having here in NY... throw humidity on top of that. No, it's definitely the same purple algae that grows on my live rock. It basically turns some of the substrate purple and it's just in certain areas. My LFS confirmed this but kind of beat around the bush on why it's happening.

After talking with a fellow reefer here in town last night, I've come to find that I've been feeding my tank way too much ESV for the last few weeks. My tank has been established since February and I've NEVER had a problem like this until I uped the dosage of ESV due to my new LPS frags... which I didn't have to do. My tank is VERY established to say the least and my skimmer is heaven sent. I waited patiently for almost 2 months for my tank to cycle since I was a first timer... and I DID wait. (smile) So, I know that my tank was established and in good condition. I never have problems like bad levels, toxins and things of that sort. Just a few temp spikes here and there during the summer months.

I was able to break up the hardened aragonite with a long plastic cylinder that I have. I just poked around in it and twisted the cylinder like crazy and it broke apart. I'm gonna lower my ESV dosage back to where it was and see it this will keep my SB where it's supposed to be.

As for my sandbed, well, I ordered this stuff and in bold letters on the bags, it said ARAGONITE. I have seen cruhed coral and I don't like it... it's way too big and it's not the look I wanted. Let me ask this question though... can I mix in a finer sand with what I currently have? I mean, providing that I wait a few weeks to insure that the hardening doesn't reoccur? Help me out guys. Believe me, I'm not knocking any of your theories so please, keep them coming. I take ALL of your input into consideration. I have a buddy who has a 120g with a much thinner SB than mine, he uses the same aragonite that I do but I see a very finer looking sand mixed in with his aragonite. He also has a sump and cal. reactor as well. What's your theory on this???? Oh yeah, sorry about the long post! (smile)

[srgtkoons]

Rudeboy are you dripping Kalk? When i first started my 30 gal i used kalk and it caused my sandbed to start to clump, I forget the reason behind why it happens, but after i stopped dosing kalk it never happened again.

[Ninong]

Originally posted by RudeBoy:

As for my sandbed, well, I ordered this stuff and in bold letters on the bags, it said ARAGONITE. I have seen cruhed coral and I don't like it...

Crushed coral is aragonite and it comes in more than one particle size. Aragonite sand comes in many different particle sizes. Your substrate just looks like it may be a large particle size in the pics I saw on your website.

Can I mix in a finer sand with what I currently have?

If your present sand bed is crushed coral, I would throw it all out. If it is something like Carib Sea Seaflor, you could keep a small amount of it to make up no more than 10% of the new sand bed.

My Cal. is at 350

You should try to raise this a little, 425-450 would be better.

Ninong

[RudeBoy]

Thanks Ninong. Now that I feel like a complete dummy(Aragonite/crushed coral), what can I do to raise my Calcium to at least 400? I mean, adding the ESV isn't really doing squat. You know, I did use Kent Supper Buffer to raise my Ph and it stays right at 8.2 - 8.4 and I haven't used it in like a month and a half. I am dousing with ESV Alk buffer and my Ph never drops. Would the Kent Turbo calcium be a good choice to raise the Calcium... I mean, just raise it to where I'd like it to be? Also, are the Red Sea test kits good. My LFS swears by them and I trust what they've taught me so far. What do you think?

[Ninong]

Originally posted by RudeBoy

Would the Kent Turbo calcium be a good choice to raise the Calcium... I mean, just raise it to where I'd like it to be?

Yes.

Also, are the Red Sea test kits good. My LFS swears by them and I trust what they've taught me so far. What do you think?

Most people do not think very highly of these test kits. Salifert is probably a better choice at a reasonable price. Hatch kits may be even better, but more expensive.

Ninong

[RudeBoy]

Thanks Ninong... you're the best. So, the final verdict is that I should get rid of my current sand bed and go with a finer and some what deeper one. Now, can I still use Aragonite BUT use a very, very fine kind. I'm REALLY not into the whole SAND thing. I just don't like the look of it... unless it's very light. Are there lighter sands that would work? And lastly, what about my fish and corals while I'm doing this? What do I do with them while all of this is going on?

[Steve]

I had the same problem. I was using CaribSea special grade aragonite sand. Looked just like crushed coral. It would harden up the most in places of high current. Especially where the current was blowing directly on it. I removed it and mixed it up with southdown to create a new DSB. Hasen't hardened up since.

[Ninong]

RudeBoy,

This thread should answer all of your questions: http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin...=crushed+coral

That is a link to the Ask Dr. Ron forum on www.reefcentral.com You may find it necessary to register on that board first before you can view the thread.

Good luck,

Ninong

P.S. -- Here is another thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin...&highlight=DSB

[RudeBoy]

Ninong, I registered and still can't get to that thread. How can I locate that thread after I log in as myself?