nudibranches that eat flatworms

RhondaJ32 · 05-20-2001, 08:00 AM

Can anyone tell me where I might be able to find one of these? Also can anyone tell me any experiences they have had with them? I have read that they release toxins when they die and then I read yesterday that all nudibranches eat meaty tissue from corals. So I don't know what to beleive. I asked Dr Ron about these nudibranches and he said they weren't a true nudbranch and said I shouldn't have any problem with them. But I wanted to see what people who have had them thought. I also still need to find some.

tkg · 05-20-2001, 08:41 AM

I think I recall Jason at premium acquatics saying he had some of them.

I battled those evil little flatworms for a couple of years and may have finally gotten ahead of them. I had to move that tank so I dipped every rock briefly in DI water that I had adjusted to 8.2 ph. A month later they have not exploded again. YET

Good luck

Tom G.

**Ninong** · 05-20-2001, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RhondaJ32:

Can anyone tell me where I might be able to find one of these?

As mentioned by Dr. Ron in the post that you read, www.inlandaquatics.com is always a good place to start when looking for anything like this.

Also can anyone tell me any experiences they have had with them? I have read that they release toxins when they die...

Are you talking about the flatworm-eating sea slugs or the flatworms? Yes, flatworms release toxic fluids when they die, which is why they should to be removed immediately if you choose to use something like Oomed (also run carbon).

...and then I read yesterday that all nudibranches eat meaty tissue from corals.

Well, either you misread something or someone was completely wrong. It is most certainly NOT true that ALL nudibranchs eat meaty tissue from corals. It IS true that all nudibranchs are flesheaters (carnivores) that usually specialize in one particular prey or prey family. Most of them are particularly fond of sponges, which is why so many of them are toxic--they extract toxins from the sponges. Some nudibranchs (Berghia verrucicornis) dine exclusively on the dreaded Aiptasia.

Also, if you are looking for the cephalaspidean slugs mentioned by Dr. Ron, it would help things if you did not call them nudibranchs; otherwise, people will think you are looking for something else even though they might know where you could get some cephalaspidean slugs.

So I don't know what to beleive.

I believe you may have misread some of the replies. In particular, I would be surprised if anyone posted that "all nudibranchs eat meaty tissue from corals" because they would have been laughed off the board within minutes.

Regards,

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

------------------
Irrational Exuberance!

RhondaJ32 · 05-20-2001, 08:59 AM

Thanks so much for all the info. That was a big help. I know nothing about nudibranches or the cephalaspidean slugs as I have always thought they were bad for the tank. I think I must have misunderstood what I read. When it said they were all flesh eaters it did not go into detail so I was thinking flesh as in fleshy corals. Thanks for telling me that is not what it meant. Also do you know anything about the beautiful purple nudibranches? I think they are so beautiful but I have a feeling they are hard to keep. My LFS got some in awhile back ago. He had 3 and the very next day after getting them in one had died.

popcorn · 05-20-2001, 06:17 PM

Rhonda,
I am also battling an outbreak of red planaria (which I am assuming is the flatworm you are referring to.) In my research, I did come across a reference to group of nudibranchs that supposedly eat red planaria aka C. retrogemma: the Chelidonura group. Of these, C. varians is noted as being pretty to look at also (they are black with electric blue lines - although they unfortunately have a short lifespan.) I believe these are true nudibranchs, although I have not really looked into them further.

I have no clue where one would find these creatures. The reference I found is in Delbeek and Sprung's The Reef Aquarium: Volume Two on pp. 427-429. It has a little more information on flatworms, control and potential predators.

Since we are looking at a big tank move shortly, we are going to just FW dip the rock, siphon off all we see and hope for the best.

Good luck, and HTH

[This message has been edited by popcorn (edited 05-20-2001).]

**Ninong** · 05-20-2001, 06:46 PM

Yes, I see that Delbeek and Sprung do refer to Chelidonura varians as a nudibranch. They are wrong, it is NOT a nudibranch, it is an opisthobranch. They mentioned that it defecated red fecal pellets but forgot to mention that the fecal pellets are toxic and may kill any corals they land on. Other species of this genus that are found on the Pacific coast of the U.S. are known to be toxic to certain fish that eat them. Just things you should be aware of if you plan on trying these slugs in your tank.

They are quite effective at eating flatworms but you have to have your pooperscooper handy just in case. [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Here's a link to a pic: http://www.oz.net/~vibrant/varians15_russells1.html

BTW, on page 430 of TRA-2 they do correctly identify it in the caption next to its picture as a slug and not a nudibranch.

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

P.S. - I just can't resist being nit picky. All nudibranchs are opisthobranchs, but this opisthobranch is not a nudibranch. They obviously corrected their error in the caption on p. 430. [img]/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

------------------
Irrational Exuberance!

**Ninong** · 05-20-2001, 09:10 PM

Rhonda ~

It is possible that the beautiful nudibranchs that your LFS has are Chromodoris bullocki which is a sponge feeder. I don't know if they will actually eat Angelfish and Butterflyfish food that contains sponge material as some hobbyists claim; I think they will probably starve to death. Another thing to remember is that most nudibranchs have a very limited lifespan, 12-18 months typically, and you have no way of knowing how old the specimen is when you buy it.

The other possibility is that your LFS is selling Spanish Dancers (Hexabranchus spp.)--although I certainly hope not--which can be extremely toxic due to toxic slime excretions from skin glands and could even wipe out the entire fish population in an aquarium.

BTW, the plural is -s, not -es, because it is pronounced brank, not branch. [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

The bottom line is that nudibranchs are a waste of money and some of them could even wipe out your tank. There are thousands of different species and most of the time your LFS has no idea what they are selling. (P.S. - This applies to the so-called "pretty" nudibranchs that are sold strictly as ornamental additions to the aquarium, not to something like Berghia verrucicornis.)

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

------------------
Irrational Exuberance!

RhondaJ32 · 05-21-2001, 06:31 AM

Do these red flatworms hurt anything if I choose to just siphon them out to keep the population down? What do FW eat? I just want to be sure they are not eating into corals. What happens if the flatworms get on corals? Are they dangerous to reef life or just ugly?

**Ninong** · 05-21-2001, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RhondaJ32:

Do these red flatworms hurt anything if I choose to just siphon them out to keep the population down?

Well, unfortunately, siphoning them out just seems to open up "space" for new ones to occupy. They multiply very rapidly.

I just want to be sure they are not eating into corals. What happens if the flatworms get on corals? Are they dangerous to reef life or just ugly?

The common red flatworm Convolutriloba retrogemma is probably more of a PITA than a real threat to your corals. They seem to behave differently in aquaria than they do on a real reef when it comes to choice of settlement locations. This is one of those topics where everybody has a different opinion and everybody is at least partly right.

Here is a bit more information on Dugesia (flatworms) -- http://www.aquarium.net/1197/1197_4.shtml

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

------------------
Irrational Exuberance!

05-20-2001, 08:00 AM	#1
RhondaJ32 Citizen Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Chattanooga TN USA Posts: 168	nudibranches that eat flatworms Can anyone tell me where I might be able to find one of these? Also can anyone tell me any experiences they have had with them? I have read that they release toxins when they die and then I read yesterday that all nudibranches eat meaty tissue from corals. So I don't know what to beleive. I asked Dr Ron about these nudibranches and he said they weren't a true nudbranch and said I shouldn't have any problem with them. But I wanted to see what people who have had them thought. I also still need to find some.

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05-20-2001, 08:41 AM	#2
tkg Just Moved In Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Columbus, Oh Posts: 32	I think I recall Jason at premium acquatics saying he had some of them. I battled those evil little flatworms for a couple of years and may have finally gotten ahead of them. I had to move that tank so I dipped every rock briefly in DI water that I had adjusted to 8.2 ph. A month later they have not exploded again. YET Good luck Tom G.

05-20-2001, 08:59 AM	#4
RhondaJ32 Citizen Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Chattanooga TN USA Posts: 168	Thanks so much for all the info. That was a big help. I know nothing about nudibranches or the cephalaspidean slugs as I have always thought they were bad for the tank. I think I must have misunderstood what I read. When it said they were all flesh eaters it did not go into detail so I was thinking flesh as in fleshy corals. Thanks for telling me that is not what it meant. Also do you know anything about the beautiful purple nudibranches? I think they are so beautiful but I have a feeling they are hard to keep. My LFS got some in awhile back ago. He had 3 and the very next day after getting them in one had died.

05-20-2001, 06:17 PM	#5
popcorn Citizen Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Lenexa, KS USA Posts: 191	Rhonda, I am also battling an outbreak of red planaria (which I am assuming is the flatworm you are referring to.) In my research, I did come across a reference to group of nudibranchs that supposedly eat red planaria aka C. retrogemma: the Chelidonura group. Of these, C. varians is noted as being pretty to look at also (they are black with electric blue lines - although they unfortunately have a short lifespan.) I believe these are true nudibranchs, although I have not really looked into them further. I have no clue where one would find these creatures. The reference I found is in Delbeek and Sprung's The Reef Aquarium: Volume Two on pp. 427-429. It has a little more information on flatworms, control and potential predators. Since we are looking at a big tank move shortly, we are going to just FW dip the rock, siphon off all we see and hope for the best. Good luck, and HTH [This message has been edited by popcorn (edited 05-20-2001).]

05-20-2001, 06:46 PM	#6
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20,691	Yes, I see that Delbeek and Sprung do refer to Chelidonura varians as a nudibranch. They are wrong, it is NOT a nudibranch, it is an opisthobranch. They mentioned that it defecated red fecal pellets but forgot to mention that the fecal pellets are toxic and may kill any corals they land on. Other species of this genus that are found on the Pacific coast of the U.S. are known to be toxic to certain fish that eat them. Just things you should be aware of if you plan on trying these slugs in your tank. They are quite effective at eating flatworms but you have to have your pooperscooper handy just in case. [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Here's a link to a pic: http://www.oz.net/~vibrant/varians15_russells1.html BTW, on page 430 of TRA-2 they do correctly identify it in the caption next to its picture as a slug and not a nudibranch. Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] P.S. - I just can't resist being nit picky. All nudibranchs are opisthobranchs, but this opisthobranch is not a nudibranch. They obviously corrected their error in the caption on p. 430. [img]/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] ------------------ Irrational Exuberance!

05-20-2001, 09:10 PM	#7
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20,691	Rhonda ~ It is possible that the beautiful nudibranchs that your LFS has are Chromodoris bullocki which is a sponge feeder. I don't know if they will actually eat Angelfish and Butterflyfish food that contains sponge material as some hobbyists claim; I think they will probably starve to death. Another thing to remember is that most nudibranchs have a very limited lifespan, 12-18 months typically, and you have no way of knowing how old the specimen is when you buy it. The other possibility is that your LFS is selling Spanish Dancers (Hexabranchus spp.)--although I certainly hope not--which can be extremely toxic due to toxic slime excretions from skin glands and could even wipe out the entire fish population in an aquarium. BTW, the plural is -s, not -es, because it is pronounced brank, not branch. [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img] The bottom line is that nudibranchs are a waste of money and some of them could even wipe out your tank. There are thousands of different species and most of the time your LFS has no idea what they are selling. (P.S. - This applies to the so-called "pretty" nudibranchs that are sold strictly as ornamental additions to the aquarium, not to something like Berghia verrucicornis.) Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] ------------------ Irrational Exuberance!

05-21-2001, 06:31 AM	#8
RhondaJ32 Citizen Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Chattanooga TN USA Posts: 168	Do these red flatworms hurt anything if I choose to just siphon them out to keep the population down? What do FW eat? I just want to be sure they are not eating into corals. What happens if the flatworms get on corals? Are they dangerous to reef life or just ugly?

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