[SKRIZ]

I just tried some playsand from Home Depot in my tank. I see that it has little granite pieces in it. What do you think of this stuff in a reef tank? Will the granite have an adverse effect? Thanks

[MEC]

It will work fine. Its silica sand though, and wont do any buffering for you though...Mike

[dznuts007]

I'm also using the playsand from Home Depot. I specifically have the Paragon industries playsand. Said on the package that it was cleaned, sifted, etc. Changed my CC to the sand over a month and a half ago and it's great. Yeah..too bad it's silica based and not Calcium based so no buffering...

[newreefman1]

I have home depot sand and carribean pink reef sand but majority home depot. Just reg, play sand. Silica. I rinsed quite well, had little if any clouding and has been great so far. not a single problem and you cant beat the price. Through readings, there seems to be nothing quite conclusive that a "buffering" substrate does all that much good. You should be dosing with b ionic, kalkwasser or some other buffering agent regardless so it doesnt really matter the buffering capability of the substrate.

Hope this helps.

Jason.

[rededteck]

What is the SKU for southdown sand, anyone know?

[eses]

So other than the buffering capacity, there is not harm in using silica sand? I was lead to believe that the silica would actually leech out of the sand into the water, is this not the case? My argonite sand beds really give me no buffering that I can tell, if I let it sit without dosing with any form of alkalinity booster or calcium all of my levels go to 0 and my Ph begins to change..so a silica sand wouldn't bother me I doubt, and is much cheaper. The HD in my area has nice white silica sand for $3.99 per 100# bag right now.

newreefman1; how long have you had your tank running with it? while I am not just looking for a cheap route, if I don't have to spend $140 on sand I'd rather not.

[newreefman1]

eses...My tank is rather new. Its my 4th or 5th tank though so im not a total reef newbie

I actually have had the fastest rate of corraline growth ever in this tank. It has nothing to do with the sand im sure but silica is just fine. There is no link to silicates leaking out of the substate and causing a diatom bloom as previously thought and I have NO issues so far. My tanks only just over a month but I transferred an 18 tall into it so it was sort of a quick cycle.

http://members.home.net/jasonco6/newestpics

Theres some pics of the tank. Its doing quite nicely. I added alot more rock and some new corals and the stuff from my 18 and things havent grown faster....so the sand isnt hindering.

I wasnt adverse to buying aragonite sand but there seems to be no reason when I can spend 6 bucks at HD for something that works just great.

J

[newreefman1]

oh eses...you say other than buffering capacity....


Theres not a whole lot that says aragonite even really buffers the water. It does somewhat but not enough to matter anyways....

You still have to manually buffer it.

[Ninong]

Originally posted by rededteck
What is the SKU for southdown sand, anyone know?

In answer to your question, I think I will post my long winded response from a thread back on June 16, 2001. I have highlighted the answer to your question in red but decided that this may answer other questions about Southdown at the same time.

Hi Connie ~ (P.S. -- Connie was the one asking all the questions in that thread. )

That is yet another thread by someone new to the boards who thinks that Southdown sand is some great mystery. This topic was discussed to death on Reef Central more than a year ago. The only thing that is different since that original thread is that in November 2000 Southdown became a subsidiary of CEMEX.

All of the aragonite sand that Southdown sells is purchased from Marcona Ocean Industries. It is mined from a cay in the Bahamas. Marcona Ocean Industries sells it to CaribSea, Southdown and Martin Marietta. Marcona is in Ft. Pierce, FL, Martin Marietta is in Jacksonville, FL and Southdown is in Easton, PA. Southdown has the stuff shipped up to Pennsylvania by barge. It is sold at Home Depot stores in a few states near Pennsylvania.

In spite of what is said in that thread, no one has ever gotten any of it in bulk in Jacksonville that I am aware of. And instances of large quantities of Southdown sand being transferred from one Home Depot store to another are almost always fantasies. There are two or three cases that I know of where this has actually happened but 95% of the time, in spite of promises from store employees, it doesn't happen. For one thing, the cost of trucking it across the country is far greater than any little profit they would make at $3.84/bag. It is sometimes on sale in New York at the end of the summer season for $1.99/bag.

There are two or three cases where someone succeeded in getting a pallet of the stuff transferred without shipping charges but those are instances where the regional management was unaware of what was going on. The best chance someone in a faraway state has of getting some of it transferred is to be very, very friendly with the Garden Dept. Manager at their local Home Depot and to have this guy talk directly to the Garden Dept. Manager at a Home Depot that stocks it to try to have 5 or 6 bags added to a truck that is heading out to your store anyway. This worked once for someone in Seattle. The problem is that if they go through normal channels, the request will be denied. And most Garden Dept. Managers at the stores that carry it know exactly why people want it so badly.

According to Home Depot, Southdown sand is by far the item that they receive the most telephone inquiries about and they are not interested in transferring it. Their normal policies allow transfer of bulky items like that only between stores in the same district. Most people who get a pallet (2800-lbs) or more, pay for trucking charges in addition to the cost of the sand. Depending on how far away from Pennsylvania they are the total cost per bag can run anywhere from about $10-$12/bag to get a pallet to Louisiana or Texas to $16-$18/bag to get a pallet to California. Someone recently got a pallet of the stuff all the way to Minnesota without paying trucking charges but that was an accident.

Anyway, as far as I know, Southdown still sells aragonite sand in 50-lb bags under the brand Southdown Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean and in 40-lb bags under the brand Yardright Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean. Even though the SKU# is 578-819, that can apply to any play sand, not just aragonite sand. And if it's play sand, it has to be safe for juveniles of the species Homo sapiens, so it does not contain nuclear waste as someone suggested, and it is sterilized or it couldn't be marketed as play sand. For a while there Southdown was actually selling it (by phone) to hobbyists for about $12/bag plus regular shipping charges but I believe they have discontinued this practice. I know that CaribSea thinks that they have an exclusive rights agreement with Marcona Ocean Industries to market to the saltwater aquarium hobby. Home Depot is supposed to be selling it for landscaping purposes.

It is available online from Reefland.com (P.S. -- Before they went out of business. ) and from Premium Aquatics (sometimes) for only $11 or $12 per bag plus shipping. You can also order ESV oolitic aragonite sand for $22.75 per 50-lb bucket directly from ESV in Brooklyn, NY but the shipping charges will be added to that.

Anyway, every few months there are a whole slew of new Southdown sand threads on all the boards. But it's all old stuff.

Ninong

[Ninong]

Originally posted by eses:

So other than the buffering capacity, there is not harm in using silica sand? I was lead to believe that the silica would actually leech out of the sand into the water, is this not the case?

This is a topic that is debated from time to time on the boards. We have one Ph.D. who says it will and another Ph.D. who says it won't. I really don't know, but I do know that many people use silica play sand without reporting any problems. One problem that I can think of would be if your silica play sand was contaminated with feldspar, which may (or may not) cause problems.

My argonite sand beds really give me no buffering that I can tell, if I let it sit without dosing with any form of alkalinity booster or calcium all of my levels go to 0 and my pH begins to change..so a silica sand wouldn't bother me I doubt, and is much cheaper. The HD in my area has nice white silica sand for $3.99 per 100# bag right now.

You would probably be perfectly safe to use the "nice white silica sand" if you want to, especially for only $3.99 per 100-lb bag. As far as the buffering capabilities of aragonite sand are concerned, I would rather not go there right now. Suffice it to say that a certain amount of the sand does dissolve over time. There is no question of that, it is a fact. You would probably notice more buffering in a deeper sand bed because aragonite does not dissolve at NSW pH, but it does dissolve (to a certain extent) in the presence of the acids produced as a byproduct of metabolic processes of the bacteria deep in the sand bed.

The dispute is to what extent this is significant. There are some (Dr. Jaubert and the guy who owns CaribSea come to mind) who are convinced that it is very significant; but there are others who say that it is very insignificant. All depends on what your definition of is is. Oops, wrong story. Your definition of significant.

Ninong

[SKRIZ]

thanks all for the help. I think the sand looks incredible (i just junked my crushed coral). Now I just have to replenish my snails and stuff

[golfish]

some people think that the silica sand has sharper edges and can be tough on some of the critters living there

[louberry]

Originally Posted by Ninong

In answer to your question, I think I will post my long winded response from a thread back on June 16, 2001. I have highlighted the answer to your question in red but decided that this may answer other questions about Southdown at the same time.

Hi Connie ~ (P.S. -- Connie was the one asking all the questions in that thread. )

That is yet another thread by someone new to the boards who thinks that Southdown sand is some great mystery. This topic was discussed to death on Reef Central more than a year ago. The only thing that is different since that original thread is that in November 2000 Southdown became a subsidiary of CEMEX.

All of the aragonite sand that Southdown sells is purchased from Marcona Ocean Industries. It is mined from a cay in the Bahamas. Marcona Ocean Industries sells it to CaribSea, Southdown and Martin Marietta. Marcona is in Ft. Pierce, FL, Martin Marietta is in Jacksonville, FL and Southdown is in Easton, PA. Southdown has the stuff shipped up to Pennsylvania by barge. It is sold at Home Depot stores in a few states near Pennsylvania.

In spite of what is said in that thread, no one has ever gotten any of it in bulk in Jacksonville that I am aware of. And instances of large quantities of Southdown sand being transferred from one Home Depot store to another are almost always fantasies. There are two or three cases that I know of where this has actually happened but 95% of the time, in spite of promises from store employees, it doesn't happen. For one thing, the cost of trucking it across the country is far greater than any little profit they would make at $3.84/bag. It is sometimes on sale in New York at the end of the summer season for $1.99/bag.

There are two or three cases where someone succeeded in getting a pallet of the stuff transferred without shipping charges but those are instances where the regional management was unaware of what was going on. The best chance someone in a faraway state has of getting some of it transferred is to be very, very friendly with the Garden Dept. Manager at their local Home Depot and to have this guy talk directly to the Garden Dept. Manager at a Home Depot that stocks it to try to have 5 or 6 bags added to a truck that is heading out to your store anyway. This worked once for someone in Seattle. The problem is that if they go through normal channels, the request will be denied. And most Garden Dept. Managers at the stores that carry it know exactly why people want it so badly.

According to Home Depot, Southdown sand is by far the item that they receive the most telephone inquiries about and they are not interested in transferring it. Their normal policies allow transfer of bulky items like that only between stores in the same district. Most people who get a pallet (2800-lbs) or more, pay for trucking charges in addition to the cost of the sand. Depending on how far away from Pennsylvania they are the total cost per bag can run anywhere from about $10-$12/bag to get a pallet to Louisiana or Texas to $16-$18/bag to get a pallet to California. Someone recently got a pallet of the stuff all the way to Minnesota without paying trucking charges but that was an accident.

Anyway, as far as I know, Southdown still sells aragonite sand in 50-lb bags under the brand Southdown Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean and in 40-lb bags under the brand Yardright Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean. Even though the SKU# is 578-819, that can apply to any play sand, not just aragonite sand. And if it's play sand, it has to be safe for juveniles of the species Homo sapiens, so it does not contain nuclear waste as someone suggested, and it is sterilized or it couldn't be marketed as play sand. For a while there Southdown was actually selling it (by phone) to hobbyists for about $12/bag plus regular shipping charges but I believe they have discontinued this practice. I know that CaribSea thinks that they have an exclusive rights agreement with Marcona Ocean Industries to market to the saltwater aquarium hobby. Home Depot is supposed to be selling it for landscaping purposes.

It is available online from Reefland.com (P.S. -- Before they went out of business. ) and from Premium Aquatics (sometimes) for only $11 or $12 per bag plus shipping. You can also order ESV oolitic aragonite sand for $22.75 per 50-lb bucket directly from ESV in Brooklyn, NY but the shipping charges will be added to that.

Anyway, every few months there are a whole slew of new Southdown sand threads on all the boards. But it's all old stuff.

Ninong

louberry what is buffering of the sand u are talking about trying to start a swa.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by louberry

louberry what is buffering of the sand u are talking about trying to start a swa.

First of all,


Second of all, did you notice this thread is from 2001?

Buffering by an aragonite sandbed refers to the fact that aragonite sand (calcium carbonate sand) begins to dissolve at a pH of 7.7 and below. It is thought that in the depths of the sandbed, a certain amount of this sand will dissolve because the pH may fall below 7.7.

The extent of the net dissolution is highly debateable. At one extreme we have Dr. Jean Jaubert of the University of Nice and Monaco Aquarium claiming that a bed composed of aragonite sediments can sustain calcium and alkalinity levels in an aquarium without any other supplementation and at the other end we have those who say that whatever dissolution takes place is almost entirely matched by reprecipitation.

My current thinking is that the buffering capabilities of a deep sandbed may have been exaggerated and that whatever buffering does take place is minimal at best. That's not to say that there is none, just that it's not all that it was once cracked up to be.

That probably doesn't answer your question if you're just starting out. So let's just say that I like aragonite sandbeds. Aragonite sandbeds are a good thing, just not as great a source of buffering as I may have believed six years ago.