My clown has found a surrogate?

**Ninong** · 05-20-2001, 09:00 AM

Napoleon ~

How old is your clownfish? If it's more than say 14 months old, we can probably figure out whether it is Amphiprion percula or A. ocellaris. [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

Joyce Wilkerson, in her excellent book, Clownfishes, has this advice for you:

"Clownfishes love residing in the weaving tentacles of flowerpot corals (Goniopora spp.), but a resident clown will annoy a Goniopora to death by causing the coral to keep its tentacles retracted until the symbiotic algae within the coral's tissues perish from lack of light. Clownfishes will often select any available Goniopora over any available anemone, even when the "right" anemone is present. Choose either the clownfish or the Goniopora--but not both--in the same tank. (This coral, although readily available, has a history of doing poorly in most aquariums, and is best avoided even if there are no clownfishes present.)"

So, it looks like you may have a problem.

Regards,

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

------------------
Irrational Exuberance!

Caesar Augustus · 05-20-2001, 09:14 AM

I had a feeling this was not good[img]/ubb/frown.gif[/img] Ninong would you post a pic of both clowns for me to make a judgement? What am I to do? I love Tasselhoff, I've had him for years, and flower pots have enough trouble without a clown annoying them.
Help!!!Would he go to the correct anem instead?
Keep the reef,
Napoelon

[This message has been edited by Napoleon (edited 05-20-2001).]

**Ninong** · 05-20-2001, 01:58 PM

Here is a link to help you determine whether you have a Percula Clownfish or an Ocellaris Clownfish: http://www.keil.ukans.edu/ebooks/ch2.html#percu

That site has pics and detailed descriptions of all 28 Anemonefish and all 10 Clownfish-Hosting Sea Anemones. The most obvious difference between Ocellaris and Percula is that Percula has thicker black margins on the white bands. It is very difficult to count the dorsal spines or the pectoral rays on a moving fish, which is another determinant.

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

------------------
Irrational Exuberance!

Caesar Augustus · 05-20-2001, 05:28 PM

Ninong he is a perc. I have moved him to the 55 but I've converting the 55 to a reef soon and he'll be back together with my beloved flower pot.Do you think I could get him sweet on a anem of his likeing that could make him forget about the pot? What would you say is the favorite anem of the perc? Could my plan work? Or am I screwed[img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
Keep the reef,
Napoleon
"I don't have a big ego, I'm way too cool for that."

Elmo18 · 05-20-2001, 05:32 PM

Napoleon,

I have a Clarki'i , green goniopora, and bubble-tip anemone in the same 80 gallon tank now. I also have concern, as from time to time, the clown will dive in short bursts into the tentacles/polyps of the goniopora. However, the fish spends most of the time with the bubble-tip anemone. I know perculas will take to carpet anemones, bubble-tips and several others, but don't get the carpets as they will be too big for the 55 gallon. A bubble-tip will be great. I might actually have to put the goniopora in a much higher flow area so the clown will not want to get in it and bother the tentacles. It's nice to see it snuggling in the bubble-tip.

Regards and best of luck,
Ilham
[img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Caesar Augustus · 05-20-2001, 05:35 PM

Thanks for the 411 Elmo, BTW my daughter loves Elmo's world[img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
Napoleon

**Ninong** · 05-20-2001, 06:26 PM

Well, unfortunately, Amphiprion percula very rarely accepts Entacmaea quadricolor as a host in captivity--never in the wild and almost never in captivity. A. ocellaris will usually accept E. quadricolor, but not A. percula.

For a Percula Clown in a reef tank, your best bet is probably Heteractis crispa. They would accept H. magnifica but it gets way too large and rarely survives in captivity. Of the three species of carpet anemones, they only accept Stichodactyla gigantea, which is not a good choice for a home aquarium.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

------------------
Irrational Exuberance!

Caesar Augustus · 05-20-2001, 08:21 PM

-please forgive all the mispellings in this post-It appears that my clown (either perc or occilarious?) has chosen my flower pot as a surrogate to an anem! Has anyone ever seen such? The thing is the flower pot wont open so long as the clown is staying stuck to him. But Tasselhoff (my clown) has taken to him like a duck to water. Is this a healthy relationship?
Keep the reef,
Napoleon
"If your feeling good don't worry, you'll get over it"
-Murphy-

[This message has been edited by Napoleon (edited 05-20-2001).]

Elmo18 · 05-20-2001, 08:48 PM

Napoleon,

My clarki'i clownfish has taken to both my bubble-tip anemone and the green goniopora that I have. The fish spends most of the time with the anemone, but from time to time will go near the goniopora and kind of hover there.

This is actually bad for the goniopora because of several things. One, the goniopora cannot extend its polyps for feeding, and remain in its stony/calcium base. Two, the clownfish will hurt the tentacles because the fish will dart in quickly, and wriggle like it's a blanket [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] If the goniopora shows first signs of distress, or polyps seem to be retracted often, I would worry somewhat.

Regards,
Ilham

calypso · 05-20-2001, 08:54 PM

My ocellaris clowns finally "discovered" my bubble-tip anemone last night. But prior to that, they were hovering under the polyps of my frogspawn. And prior to that, they were using a fuzzy mushroom rock as their "home." It appears they will adopt anything they deem as suitable, whether or not it makes sense to us. Do you have an anemone for them? If so, give it time, and they will probably find it like my clowns finally did (it took them more than a month). Hopefully, it will happen sooner than later, because it's not good for your goniopora to have the clown in it, especially when the goniopora won't open. You'll have to take some sort of action to get the clown out of the goniopora.

------------------
"The first rule of
intelligent tinkering is
to save all the pieces."

36 · 05-21-2001, 03:43 AM

Ninong,

Is it possible to email Joyce Wilkerson?

**Ninong** · 05-22-2001, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 36:
Ninong,

Is it possible to email Joyce Wilkerson?

Sure, I don't see any reason why not. She may not actually have time to respond to e-mail questions, if that is what you had in mind. But if you just want to send her an e-mail telling her you liked her book, I'm sure she would get it and appreciate it.

She is an engineer by profession and lives with her family in Virginia. She is also the Chief Operating Officer of the Breeders Registry in Sacramento, CA, so I guess you could contact her through them: http://www.breeders-registry.gen.ca.us/contacts.htm

Or, you could contact her through her publisher: www.microcosm-books.com

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

------------------
Irrational Exuberance!

Caesar Augustus · 05-22-2001, 09:23 AM

Sorry elmo, my latins rusty[img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img] Thanks
Napoleon

Biomanjcs72 · 05-22-2001, 09:32 AM

Yeah, Napolean, what's up with that, "Heteractis Crispa" and "Sebae" sound soooo much alike.
And why do you think he's a perk...I always thought he was an ocellaris...JMHO [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

------------------
JCS
"Too much of everything is just enough." Hunter/Weir

Caesar Augustus · 05-22-2001, 10:25 AM

I did too Bio. But next time your over here take a look. The link Ninong gave me had pics to compare. The Perk has black outline around the white more so than the O.BTW hows the house thing going?

olgakurt · 05-22-2001, 10:35 AM

I think those pics are an extreme example. Many tank raised flase percs tend to have much more of a black outline than that pic. I have not seen any w/just white/orange. My tank raised false perc looks almost exactly like the pic of the real deal from that book chapter. The A. perculas I have seen also tend to have a much wider black stripe/border than the picture suggests. I'd check several other photos to verify the ID.

Caesar Augustus · 05-22-2001, 08:22 PM

Won't they take to a sebae?

Elmo18 · 05-22-2001, 08:33 PM

Napoleon,

Yup, as Ninong mentioned earlier, the best bet is Heteractis crispa, which is actually the Sebae anemone.

Regards,
Ilham

**Ninong** · 05-23-2001, 05:18 AM

Napoleon ~

Check out this thread for pics of A. percula-- http://www.reefland.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/008950.html#3

Granted that the female is an extreme example of Percula coloration but the pic is so clear that it is easy to count the dorsal spines.

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

------------------
Irrational Exuberance!

05-20-2001, 08:21 PM	#8
Caesar Augustus Mayor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Birmingham,AL U.S.A. Posts: 980	My clown has found a surrogate? -please forgive all the mispellings in this post-It appears that my clown (either perc or occilarious?) has chosen my flower pot as a surrogate to an anem! Has anyone ever seen such? The thing is the flower pot wont open so long as the clown is staying stuck to him. But Tasselhoff (my clown) has taken to him like a duck to water. Is this a healthy relationship? Keep the reef, Napoleon "If your feeling good don't worry, you'll get over it" -Murphy- [This message has been edited by Napoleon (edited 05-20-2001).]

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

05-20-2001, 09:00 AM	#1
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 19,724	Napoleon ~ How old is your clownfish? If it's more than say 14 months old, we can probably figure out whether it is Amphiprion percula or A. ocellaris. [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Joyce Wilkerson, in her excellent book, Clownfishes, has this advice for you: "Clownfishes love residing in the weaving tentacles of flowerpot corals (Goniopora spp.), but a resident clown will annoy a Goniopora to death by causing the coral to keep its tentacles retracted until the symbiotic algae within the coral's tissues perish from lack of light. Clownfishes will often select any available Goniopora over any available anemone, even when the "right" anemone is present. Choose either the clownfish or the Goniopora--but not both--in the same tank. (This coral, although readily available, has a history of doing poorly in most aquariums, and is best avoided even if there are no clownfishes present.)" So, it looks like you may have a problem. Regards, Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] ------------------ Irrational Exuberance!

05-20-2001, 09:14 AM	#2
Caesar Augustus Mayor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Birmingham,AL U.S.A. Posts: 980	I had a feeling this was not good[img]/ubb/frown.gif[/img] Ninong would you post a pic of both clowns for me to make a judgement? What am I to do? I love Tasselhoff, I've had him for years, and flower pots have enough trouble without a clown annoying them. Help!!!Would he go to the correct anem instead? Keep the reef, Napoelon [This message has been edited by Napoleon (edited 05-20-2001).]

05-20-2001, 01:58 PM	#3
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 19,724	Here is a link to help you determine whether you have a Percula Clownfish or an Ocellaris Clownfish: http://www.keil.ukans.edu/ebooks/ch2.html#percu That site has pics and detailed descriptions of all 28 Anemonefish and all 10 Clownfish-Hosting Sea Anemones. The most obvious difference between Ocellaris and Percula is that Percula has thicker black margins on the white bands. It is very difficult to count the dorsal spines or the pectoral rays on a moving fish, which is another determinant. Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] ------------------ Irrational Exuberance!

05-20-2001, 05:28 PM	#4
Caesar Augustus Mayor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Birmingham,AL U.S.A. Posts: 980	Ninong he is a perc. I have moved him to the 55 but I've converting the 55 to a reef soon and he'll be back together with my beloved flower pot.Do you think I could get him sweet on a anem of his likeing that could make him forget about the pot? What would you say is the favorite anem of the perc? Could my plan work? Or am I screwed[img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Keep the reef, Napoleon "I don't have a big ego, I'm way too cool for that."

05-20-2001, 05:32 PM	#5
Elmo18 Governor Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,514	Napoleon, I have a Clarki'i , green goniopora, and bubble-tip anemone in the same 80 gallon tank now. I also have concern, as from time to time, the clown will dive in short bursts into the tentacles/polyps of the goniopora. However, the fish spends most of the time with the bubble-tip anemone. I know perculas will take to carpet anemones, bubble-tips and several others, but don't get the carpets as they will be too big for the 55 gallon. A bubble-tip will be great. I might actually have to put the goniopora in a much higher flow area so the clown will not want to get in it and bother the tentacles. It's nice to see it snuggling in the bubble-tip. Regards and best of luck, Ilham [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

05-20-2001, 05:35 PM	#6
Caesar Augustus Mayor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Birmingham,AL U.S.A. Posts: 980	Thanks for the 411 Elmo, BTW my daughter loves Elmo's world[img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img] Napoleon

05-20-2001, 06:26 PM	#7
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 19,724	Well, unfortunately, Amphiprion percula very rarely accepts Entacmaea quadricolor as a host in captivity--never in the wild and almost never in captivity. A. ocellaris will usually accept E. quadricolor, but not A. percula. For a Percula Clown in a reef tank, your best bet is probably Heteractis crispa. They would accept H. magnifica but it gets way too large and rarely survives in captivity. Of the three species of carpet anemones, they only accept Stichodactyla gigantea, which is not a good choice for a home aquarium. Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] ------------------ Irrational Exuberance!

05-20-2001, 08:48 PM	#9
Elmo18 Governor Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,514	Napoleon, My clarki'i clownfish has taken to both my bubble-tip anemone and the green goniopora that I have. The fish spends most of the time with the anemone, but from time to time will go near the goniopora and kind of hover there. This is actually bad for the goniopora because of several things. One, the goniopora cannot extend its polyps for feeding, and remain in its stony/calcium base. Two, the clownfish will hurt the tentacles because the fish will dart in quickly, and wriggle like it's a blanket [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] If the goniopora shows first signs of distress, or polyps seem to be retracted often, I would worry somewhat. Regards, Ilham

05-20-2001, 08:54 PM	#10
calypso Just Moved In Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Pleasant Prairie, WI Posts: 23	My ocellaris clowns finally "discovered" my bubble-tip anemone last night. But prior to that, they were hovering under the polyps of my frogspawn. And prior to that, they were using a fuzzy mushroom rock as their "home." It appears they will adopt anything they deem as suitable, whether or not it makes sense to us. Do you have an anemone for them? If so, give it time, and they will probably find it like my clowns finally did (it took them more than a month). Hopefully, it will happen sooner than later, because it's not good for your goniopora to have the clown in it, especially when the goniopora won't open. You'll have to take some sort of action to get the clown out of the goniopora. ------------------ "The first rule of intelligent tinkering is to save all the pieces."

05-21-2001, 03:43 AM	#11
36 Citizen Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Mabank,TX Posts: 180	Ninong, Is it possible to email Joyce Wilkerson?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

05-22-2001, 09:23 AM	#13
Caesar Augustus Mayor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Birmingham,AL U.S.A. Posts: 980	Sorry elmo, my latins rusty[img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img] Thanks Napoleon

05-22-2001, 09:32 AM	#14
Biomanjcs72 Mayor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Birmingham, Al, USA Posts: 815	Yeah, Napolean, what's up with that, "Heteractis Crispa" and "Sebae" sound soooo much alike. And why do you think he's a perk...I always thought he was an ocellaris...JMHO [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] ------------------ JCS "Too much of everything is just enough." Hunter/Weir

05-22-2001, 10:25 AM	#15
Caesar Augustus Mayor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Birmingham,AL U.S.A. Posts: 980	I did too Bio. But next time your over here take a look. The link Ninong gave me had pics to compare. The Perk has black outline around the white more so than the O.BTW hows the house thing going?

05-22-2001, 10:35 AM	#16
olgakurt Citizen Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 132	I think those pics are an extreme example. Many tank raised flase percs tend to have much more of a black outline than that pic. I have not seen any w/just white/orange. My tank raised false perc looks almost exactly like the pic of the real deal from that book chapter. The A. perculas I have seen also tend to have a much wider black stripe/border than the picture suggests. I'd check several other photos to verify the ID.

05-22-2001, 08:22 PM	#17
Caesar Augustus Mayor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Birmingham,AL U.S.A. Posts: 980	Won't they take to a sebae?

05-22-2001, 08:33 PM	#18
Elmo18 Governor Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,514	Napoleon, Yup, as Ninong mentioned earlier, the best bet is Heteractis crispa, which is actually the Sebae anemone. Regards, Ilham

05-23-2001, 05:18 AM	#19
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 19,724	Napoleon ~ Check out this thread for pics of A. percula-- http://www.reefland.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/008950.html#3 Granted that the female is an extreme example of Percula coloration but the pic is so clear that it is easy to count the dorsal spines. Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] ------------------ Irrational Exuberance!