[bongobrian]

Have any of you heard of this? it's basically an EcoSystem refugium with a slightly different design. It's called a "Ling" after the guy who designed it. Anyway, I'm thinking of setting one of these up to serve as my main filter and I'm wondering if it would be adequate. If I do set one up, I wouldn't have any kind of skimmer on the system. It would be all biological filtration. I talked to someone who uses it and he claimed that there is no need for both a skimmer and a large refugium like this, you only need one or the other. Does anyone know if this is true? I don't currently use a skimmer on my tank, only and EcoSystem hang-on refugium. I have slight levels of nitrate and phosphate. My ultimate goal here is to set up a new means of filtration which is better suited for my tank. I'm not sure if a sump with a skimmer and refugium combination is the way to go, or if I should have a sump with just a skimmer or just a refugium. I really like the idea of the Ling, I'm just not sure if I should add a skimmer or not.

[Ninong]

The name of the guy you are thinking of is Leng Sy. A skimmer is just a method for exporting nutrients from your system. If you have a large enough refugium (like really, really large) with a deep sand bed and lots of macroalgae that is harvested regularly to export nutrients, you could get by without a skimmer. You would need to run carbon on occasion to remove yellowing compounds that are produced by the macroalgae.

The name of the game is to export nutrients from your tank before they have a chance to decompose (if possible). The same nutrients that would fuel the nasty nuisance algae (if you did nothing) can be utilized by the nice macroalgae. Regular pruning and removal of the macroalgae from the system exports nutrients. Only trial and error will tell you if your efforts are sufficient to balance things. Some folks who do this sort of thing successfully have a refugium that is equal in size to their display tank.

Ninong

[mrok12]

Brian,
Leng Sy owns ecosytems,the company that makes the ecosystem. He sort of, for lack of a better term, "invented" the mud. The tank I post pics of is set up with a leng sump. I got it for 350.00 at the fish doctors. Have had no testable nutrients since day 4. I have a deep sand bed and close to 80 pounds of live rock too.
my planned 120 is a hybrid with a ca reactor, euroeef skimmer, and macro algea bed. This way I can compare mehods although the results will be skewed by the macro bed.

MROK12

[bongobrian]

mrok- are you happy with your Leng system? do you think it is adequate? I know that my filtration right now is not quite enough. I like the idea of having both a skimmer and the refugium, but I just don't think there is any easy way to do it. It's going to require me to build a custom sump and have to epoxy stuff into it. It's not that I'm lazy, I just want something that works Luke at Preuss swears that I won't need a skimmer if I go with the proper sized Leng system for my tank. He quoted me a price of $300 for the Leng, and about $200 for a "quiet one" return pump. Plus I'll need a spill box which costs around $100. There's no doubt it will be an expensive upgrade, I just don't want to do it and then be sorry I didn't set up a sump with a skimmer. Thoughts?

[mrok12]

I have had no problems. I do have a deep sand bed and I used cured live rock to he I set up. But no skimmer. I feed 2 times a day. Did he quote you a sump? They sell hang on's to. I like the system so far. My clams are doing great as are the corals.

MROK12

[bongobrian]

No he didn't quote me a sump. Do they have sump systems that would be set up to accomodate a skimmer and a refugium?? that would be awesome if they did. I currently have a hang-on ecosystem which is working great, but I don't think it is large enough. I've noticed a big different in my corals since I started using the ecosystem. They open up huge and seem like they feed all day long. There is no doubt that the refugium has helped tremendously in that department. I still wonder if I need a skimmer to help get rid of the large waste, food, and debris particles that might be floating around in the water. As Ninong said, the skimmer would also help with removing yellowing compounds.

[SupaJSK]

I moved my 20 gallon when I moved homes about 6 months ago. Before I moved it, it was growing coralline algae like crazy and my corals were really flourishing. But after I moved it, I just wasnt happy with it at all. The corals rarely opened up fully, I had a lot of nuisance algae growing and the tank just looked sparse, almost like it was dying. About a month ago I decided to go skimmerless and bought a hang on CPR refugium and put miracle mud in the bottom of it. I also bought a small 13W PC light to put over it and put some caulpera in it. This setup replaced a CPR skimmer. In the last two weeks I've really seen my corals open up and the tank looks great. I'm very happy I switched over. I even have 3 fish in there. A maroon clown, a firefish, and a scooter. I think the key here is to make sure that you got enough algae in your refugium and the flow through it shouldn't be too much. I'll keep you all up to date. In the meantime I'm thinking about adding some more corals!!

[mrok12]

Brian, will post pic right here for you of what m system looks like.

[mrok12]

Brian,
I oversized this . It isgood up to 120 gallons. I paid 350.00 for it. I will incorporate a system like this one in my 120 gallon set-up along with the myree ca reactor and euroreef skimmer pictured here. I will get a bag of the mud and use some southdown too in the refugium area of the sump.

[bongobrian]

mrok- yeah the leng system you have there looks just like the one Luke was showing me at the store. Now, mrok where are you going to put your skimmer in relation to the fuge? are you going to have two sump tanks? one for the skimmer and one for the fuge? This is what I'm confused about. I'd like to do the same thing you are doing... have a high end skimmer like the euroreef and a nice big leng system. I'm just not sure how to combine both. I'm not crazy about the idea of having two seperate sump tanks. Any ideas?

[mtreef]

Hey Supa, you mention 'the flow through the refugium should not be too much', how do you determine 'too much'? What symptoms do you see if it is too much flow?

[mrok12]

I have a mag 9.5 on my 65 wide open flow through the refugium. The people at ecosysems actually reocmmend a high flow rate. I think i am goig to run the simmer before the refugium too.

MOK12

[bongobrian]

mrok~ sounds like you and I are trying to do the same thing. I am getting anxious to put in a new sump. I just don't want to make a mistake by rushing into anything. The Leng system sounds great and everything but I am skeptical of it. I know a refugium works wonders for a reeftank, however, I would feel much more comfortable knowing I have a nice high end skimmer that I can fire up as needed. I don't know much about the mag pumps, but I was talking to someone who said I could probably get away with a mag 5 for my return pump. Do you think that is true? my tank is a 46 gal. And my sump will probably be in the neighborhood of 20 gal.

[Mr.4000]

I use the ecosystem on my 4000 gallon tank and it works awesome and i have no skimmer.If you have an adequate size sump for your tank you will not need a skimmer and if you use one it will only hinder the performance of the ecosystem and it will NOT work like it was designed to.You can call Leng or Bob at ecosystems and they will tell you the same thing.If your gonna use the ecosystem don't waste your money on a skimmer, use the extra money to upgrade lighting ,buy some corals, i'm just trying to save you a lot of headaches down the road.Mine has been up for 1 1/2 years and is doing great.You can check it out at www.Mr4000.com

[Reefs Rock]

Mr 4000

What an incredible project!

Would love to know more about the construction and design development as you went along with the building.

The videos are a real cool touch, especially the one with you diving.

If you are married, it would be interesting to talk with the wife, get her perceptive on the matter.