Red Moon Snail

Pszemol · 01-29-2002, 10:40 AM

Newtowner says Hello to everybody

In the reef aquarium in the local store I have found "Red Moon Snails" with a price tag $6.99
Their body is colored in 2 black and red stripes, their belly-foot is tan - really beautiful. Pretty big - the size about turbo snail, but the shell is more flat. From what I saw, they are "reef safe", but I would like to know more about them. The problem is that I cannot find anything about them in the internet or books I have. Has anyone knows this creature? Does it have any other common name I can look it up?

**Ninong** · 01-29-2002, 11:22 AM

Hi Pszemol, welcome to Reefland!

It is a shame that the LFS is selling those to unsuspecting customers. What a complete waste of money!

Anyway, the scientific name is Norrisia norrisii and they are a temperate species found on the west coast of the U.S. from central California all the way down to Baja California. They won't live long at reef tank temperatures.

Good thing you asked first.

Ninong

P.S. -- Uh, oh!

I just reread Pszemol's description. It might be that we are talking about two different species here because when I first read his question I ignored his description and focused instead on the words "Red Moon Snails." The red moon snail that I am thinking of, the one that is usually sold by LFS, has a red foot.

Rin · 01-29-2002, 02:06 PM

Are the snails Pszemol described the same snail as the ones sold by Petwarehouse (Dr. Foster/Smith)?

I ordered some 'red moon snails' from them. They were almost completely red with a smooth, round shell about 1" across. Of course, none of them survived more than a month in my 82°+ tank. And very few survived more than a couple of weeks.

newreefman1 · 01-29-2002, 02:09 PM

I got some from My lfs about 2 years ago or so. I paid like 2 bucks a piece for em and they lived a few months in my tank. Pretty while they were alive.....not nice to have em die so early on.

Stay away from em and get yourself some astreas, ceriths, trochus..etc.

J

6.50 is highway robbery too

**Ninong** · 01-29-2002, 02:34 PM

Rin,

That is probably the same thing... fortunately for you. Because all they do is die off after a few weeks or months at tropical reef temps. They are not carnivorous; they eat mucus and stuff off of giant kelp. There are many species of snails that are commonly called "moon snails" and many of them are predators on clams and other snails. The only reason these guys are collected and sold by the really ignorant LFS people is because of the pretty red foot. Notice that I am giving the LFS people the benefit of the doubt here and simply calling them ignorant rather than unscrupulous.

It's always best to stick with the species that have been widely covered in the hobby literature as reef-safe and not get too adventureous.

Ninong

P.S. -- Uh, oh!

I just reread Pszemol's description. It might be that we are talking about two different species here because when I first read his question I ignored his description and focused instead on the words "Red Moon Snails." The red moon snail that I am thinking of, the one that is usually sold by LFS, has a red foot like the one in the pic that Rin posted.

Dive_Master · 01-29-2002, 03:33 PM

I have been telling pszemol this for weeks. He won't listen!

Just kidding!!!!!!!!!

I agree with Ninong. We should stay with the species that we know are reef save which means they can be happy in captivity.

Adam

**Ninong** · 01-29-2002, 03:53 PM

Uh, oh!

I just reread Pszemol's description. It might be that we are talking about two different species here because when I first read his question I ignored his description and focused instead on the words "Red Moon Snails." The red moon snail that I am thinking of, the one that is usually sold by LFS, has a red foot like the one in the pic that Rin posted.

Ninong

**Ninong** · 01-29-2002, 05:02 PM

Here is a good pic of the Red Foot Moon Snail (Norrisia norrisii) that is commonly sold by LFS and by places like Live Aquaria.com (Drs. Foster & Smith, Marine Depot, etc.) -- http://www.smallworldimages.com/UWater/uw12.htm

It is a temperate species and is not suited to reef tank temperatures. It will do no harm but it won't survive beyond a few months at temperatures above 72 degrees Fahrenheit.

Ninong

Pszemol · 01-29-2002, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dive_Master
[...] We should stay with the species that we know are reef save which means they can be happy in captivity.

OK, It was pretty obvious to me, novice, that a snail living in the beautiful, commercial reef tank and feeling quite well in the reef environment will be "reef safe". Looks like I was wrong again

**Ninong** · 01-29-2002, 05:29 PM

Pszemol,

Please don't assume that just because you see something in an LFS reef tank that it is ipso facto reef-safe. In this case, it is probably reef-safe but probably will not survive very long.

Many LFS routinely stock items like the Spanish Dancer nudibranch, which is most definitely not safe in marine aquariums. They routinely sell Australian Sea Apples without warning people of the risks involved. Some even stock Blue Ringed octopuses, which should be outlawed for sale through LFS.

Ninong

Pszemol · 01-29-2002, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rin
They were almost completely red with a smooth, round shell about 1" across.

They look like the one on your picture... Let me be more specific - looking from a side it has red/black stripes on the foot. Looking from its bottom, when it moves on the glass, it is not red, its light brownish, tan. Does it match your snail?

Quote:

Of course, none of them survived more than a month in my 82°+ tank.

In my tank water is only 78° so they would be more happy, I guess
BTW - what do you think would be the main reason they would die in warmer water? Lack of oxygen? Different food they used to eat in the nature? It is hard to belive they are so delicate they will not survive a couple degrees of temperature difference...

**Ninong** · 01-29-2002, 05:41 PM

We are probably talking about the same species. The reason that temperate species animals will not survive very long at typical reef tank temperatures is because those temperatures are above their limit of tolerance. This is why LFS should not sell Catalina Gobies without warning people that they should be kept at a temperature range of 60-70 degrees Fahrenheit.

To answer your question specifically, no N. norrisii, will not survive very long at a sustained temperature of 78 degrees Fahrenheit. Neither will a Catalina Goby nor a Garibaldi. All of these animals are collected in Baja California, Mexico and dumped on the American LFS market. None of them are suitable for reef tank temperatures.

Ninong

**Ninong** · 01-29-2002, 05:57 PM

This same question was asked of Dr. Ron Shimek in his forum at Reef Central back in June 2001: http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin...ight=Norrissia

You have to be registered to Reef Central in order to access that particular forum. Note that we are talking about the same species even though he has a typographical error in the spelling of the genus.

Ninong

Rin · 01-29-2002, 07:51 PM

Temperature intolerances aside, I put ten of these ill-fated little beauties in my tank and I didn't have to clean the glass the entire time that I had them. (At least not until the coraline started to take over.) These boys work HARD. Man can they eat!

Pszemol · 01-31-2002, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rin
I put ten of these ill-fated little beauties in my tank and I didn't have to clean the glass the entire time that I had them. (At least not until the coraline started to take over.) These boys work HARD. Man can they eat! [...] Of course, none of them survived more than a month in my 82°+ tank. And very few survived more than a couple of weeks.

I was thinking about what you said and I was wondering if those algae-hungry snails had enough food in your very clean, green-algae free reef tank, Rin... They eat everything at once and nothing has left for next weeks. Maybe they starved to death and the high temperature alone has nothing to it?

Rin · 01-31-2002, 01:32 PM

If that were so, then I would still have a couple when the ecosystem balanced out after the death of a few of them. I didn't loose my snails all at once. It took a couple of weeks for the first few to died. Most of the remainder within the month. I had 1 snail that lasted almost 3 months. He couldn't keep up with the algae. But where he did clean, he did a great job.

Without the snails, I have to clean the glass twice a week. Astreas and turbos don't clean the glass like those moon snails can.

01-29-2002, 10:40 AM	#1
Pszemol Just Moved In Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: La Grange, IL Posts: 42	Red Moon Snail Newtowner says Hello to everybody In the reef aquarium in the local store I have found "Red Moon Snails" with a price tag $6.99 Their body is colored in 2 black and red stripes, their belly-foot is tan - really beautiful. Pretty big - the size about turbo snail, but the shell is more flat. From what I saw, they are "reef safe", but I would like to know more about them. The problem is that I cannot find anything about them in the internet or books I have. Has anyone knows this creature? Does it have any other common name I can look it up?

01-29-2002, 02:06 PM	#3
Rin Mayor Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Leesburg, GA Posts: 774	Ninong... Are the snails Pszemol described the same snail as the ones sold by Petwarehouse (Dr. Foster/Smith)? I ordered some 'red moon snails' from them. They were almost completely red with a smooth, round shell about 1" across. Of course, none of them survived more than a month in my 82°+ tank. And very few survived more than a couple of weeks. __________________ -Todd

01-29-2002, 02:09 PM	#4
newreefman1 Council Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: SanDiego Posts: 310	I got some from My lfs about 2 years ago or so. I paid like 2 bucks a piece for em and they lived a few months in my tank. Pretty while they were alive.....not nice to have em die so early on. Stay away from em and get yourself some astreas, ceriths, trochus..etc. J 6.50 is highway robbery too __________________ http://members.home.net/jasonco6/fulltank

01-29-2002, 07:51 PM	#14
Rin Mayor Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Leesburg, GA Posts: 774	Temperature intolerances aside, I put ten of these ill-fated little beauties in my tank and I didn't have to clean the glass the entire time that I had them. (At least not until the coraline started to take over.) These boys work HARD. Man can they eat! __________________ -Todd

01-31-2002, 01:32 PM	#16
Rin Mayor Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Leesburg, GA Posts: 774	It's possible, but.. If that were so, then I would still have a couple when the ecosystem balanced out after the death of a few of them. I didn't loose my snails all at once. It took a couple of weeks for the first few to died. Most of the remainder within the month. I had 1 snail that lasted almost 3 months. He couldn't keep up with the algae. But where he did clean, he did a great job. Without the snails, I have to clean the glass twice a week. Astreas and turbos don't clean the glass like those moon snails can. __________________ -Todd

01-29-2002, 11:22 AM	#2
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20,691	Hi Pszemol, welcome to Reefland! It is a shame that the LFS is selling those to unsuspecting customers. What a complete waste of money! Anyway, the scientific name is Norrisia norrisii and they are a temperate species found on the west coast of the U.S. from central California all the way down to Baja California. They won't live long at reef tank temperatures. Good thing you asked first. Ninong P.S. -- Uh, oh! I just reread Pszemol's description. It might be that we are talking about two different species here because when I first read his question I ignored his description and focused instead on the words "Red Moon Snails." The red moon snail that I am thinking of, the one that is usually sold by LFS, has a red foot.

01-29-2002, 02:34 PM	#5
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20,691	Rin, That is probably the same thing... fortunately for you. Because all they do is die off after a few weeks or months at tropical reef temps. They are not carnivorous; they eat mucus and stuff off of giant kelp. There are many species of snails that are commonly called "moon snails" and many of them are predators on clams and other snails. The only reason these guys are collected and sold by the really ignorant LFS people is because of the pretty red foot. Notice that I am giving the LFS people the benefit of the doubt here and simply calling them ignorant rather than unscrupulous. It's always best to stick with the species that have been widely covered in the hobby literature as reef-safe and not get too adventureous. Ninong P.S. -- Uh, oh! I just reread Pszemol's description. It might be that we are talking about two different species here because when I first read his question I ignored his description and focused instead on the words "Red Moon Snails." The red moon snail that I am thinking of, the one that is usually sold by LFS, has a red foot like the one in the pic that Rin posted.

01-29-2002, 03:33 PM	#6
Dive_Master Citizen Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 214	I have been telling pszemol this for weeks. He won't listen! Just kidding!!!!!!!!! I agree with Ninong. We should stay with the species that we know are reef save which means they can be happy in captivity. Adam

01-29-2002, 03:53 PM	#7
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20,691	Uh, oh! I just reread Pszemol's description. It might be that we are talking about two different species here because when I first read his question I ignored his description and focused instead on the words "Red Moon Snails." The red moon snail that I am thinking of, the one that is usually sold by LFS, has a red foot like the one in the pic that Rin posted. Ninong

01-29-2002, 05:02 PM	#8
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20,691	Here is a good pic of the Red Foot Moon Snail (Norrisia norrisii) that is commonly sold by LFS and by places like Live Aquaria.com (Drs. Foster & Smith, Marine Depot, etc.) -- http://www.smallworldimages.com/UWater/uw12.htm It is a temperate species and is not suited to reef tank temperatures. It will do no harm but it won't survive beyond a few months at temperatures above 72 degrees Fahrenheit. Ninong

01-29-2002, 05:29 PM	#10
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20,691	Pszemol, Please don't assume that just because you see something in an LFS reef tank that it is ipso facto reef-safe. In this case, it is probably reef-safe but probably will not survive very long. Many LFS routinely stock items like the Spanish Dancer nudibranch, which is most definitely not safe in marine aquariums. They routinely sell Australian Sea Apples without warning people of the risks involved. Some even stock Blue Ringed octopuses, which should be outlawed for sale through LFS. Ninong

01-29-2002, 05:41 PM	#12
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20,691	We are probably talking about the same species. The reason that temperate species animals will not survive very long at typical reef tank temperatures is because those temperatures are above their limit of tolerance. This is why LFS should not sell Catalina Gobies without warning people that they should be kept at a temperature range of 60-70 degrees Fahrenheit. To answer your question specifically, no N. norrisii, will not survive very long at a sustained temperature of 78 degrees Fahrenheit. Neither will a Catalina Goby nor a Garibaldi. All of these animals are collected in Baja California, Mexico and dumped on the American LFS market. None of them are suitable for reef tank temperatures. Ninong

01-29-2002, 05:57 PM	#13
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20,691	This same question was asked of Dr. Ron Shimek in his forum at Reef Central back in June 2001: http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin...ight=Norrissia You have to be registered to Reef Central in order to access that particular forum. Note that we are talking about the same species even though he has a typographical error in the spelling of the genus. Ninong

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