Black sand?

icemark · 05-24-2001, 09:48 AM

I am thinking about doing Hawaiian tank with black sand bottom.

Does anyone have experience with using black lava sand as a substrate? A couple of the LFS have it, but they generally recommend it for herps.

Positives?

Negatives (besides grain size being less that optimum)?

------------------
Mark

Play Well

Elmo18 · 05-24-2001, 09:55 AM

Icemark,

My opinion on black sand is that it will not form a deep sand bed for you. HOwever, I have gone to a LFS that also uses black sand on their display tank. The sand was about an inch high. HOwever, they do have a sump/refugium with a DSB. In my opinion, this does work , but not as efficient as a regular DSB of 4+ inches.

Regards,
Ilham [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

asmith · 05-24-2001, 09:55 AM

I don't have any experience with lava rock as a substrate, but I have heard of it being done before. I think one of the main concerns is that volcanic rock/sand contains lots of metals and other substances that could fuel algae blooms. I don't know if it would cause any other problems though. I think a black sand bed would look pretty cool.

Andrew

------------------
Never be afraid to try something new.
Remember that amateurs built the Ark.
Professionals built the Titanic.

[This message has been edited by asmith (edited 05-24-2001).]

ravenmore · 05-24-2001, 07:29 PM

You can get black silica sand which is fine - it just won't help your calcium levels like argonite sand POSSIBLY could. (a lot of natural beaches are comprised of silica sand). Black sand tends to show debris more - looks good when it's clean though.

-Mike

------------------
I didn't do it. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove anything.

Website

RWD · 05-24-2001, 07:52 PM

Don't have any experience but here's a tank that has it:
http://www.geocities.com/psychocoral.../nanoreef.html

------------------
Visit my reef site at www.bobsreef.com
Same site, different name.

icemark · 05-24-2001, 08:19 PM

Yes, I understand about the lack of buffering, I wasn't real concerned since the tank it will be plumbed with has a 5" DSB of caribsea, and the sump between both has an additional 6" DSB.

------------------
Mark

Play Well

nucleuscracker · 05-25-2001, 09:38 AM

i brought back a chunk of volcanic rock that ended up in our beach bag......

is it safe to put in my new tank (now fish as of yet)

if yes, then do I need to do anything to it before i toss it in the tank..its a pretty cool looking chunk - about the size of my palm...

------------------
Local Fish Store = Aquarists Toy Store...

Elmo18 · 05-25-2001, 09:59 AM

nucleuscracker,

Did you get the rock from a beach in Hawaii? Hawaiian legend says that the Goddess Pele, God of fire and volcanoes will do harm to those who take part of the island with them. I grew up in Hawaii, so I hear lots of legends.

Regards,
Ilham

ravenmore · 05-25-2001, 07:19 PM

nucleuscracker - I'm always hesitant to put volcanic materials into a tank. Volcanic materials due to their source can be contaminated with heavy metals that can be deadly in a tank. Volcanic rock is likely to be mainly silica which is harmless, but still, why risk it?

-Mike

------------------
I didn't do it. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove anything.

Website

dsb1829 · 05-25-2001, 08:52 PM

I have had the caribsea black beauty sand in my 7g nano for the past several months. When I first decided to start the tank I asked the same question. The buffering debate got very hot. Basically the consensus is that the Ca based substrates do little in the way of buffering. The substrate does dissolve, but not in magnitude needed to do any type of buffering.

If you feel like reading the thread over at RC here it is.
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin...threadid=18227

From what I have observed with this tank the substrate being of non Ca base doesn't seem to effect the tanks stability and operation at all. There are still those out there who use silica sand due to the inexpensive pricing.

------------------
Doug

"Wait a minute. There's no Shamus McCloud in North Kilt Town" Homer

Visit Our Tanks

Homepage

nucleuscracker · 05-26-2001, 11:18 AM

okay - so my wife was right. [img]/ubb/lol.gif[/img]

------------------
Local Fish Store = Aquarists Toy Store...

BTL · 05-26-2001, 11:35 AM

Ok, i am studying to be a geologyist and my only concern with black sand would be it breaking down in your tank to mud or the like. If it is derived from black silica (Obsidion) it will be fine becasue it is the same composition as normal sand (SiO2) but it just contains different trace elements which turn it black. If it is not derived from Silica then it most likely comes from other basaltic rocks (the type that make up hawaii and they have the same black color) and these sands will be high in relativly weak minerals like Olivine, Pyroxene and Amphibolites. This minerals break down relativly quickly and contain high ammounts of Magnesium, calcium, and iron. I dont know how these elements affect reefs but it is something to be aware of, the breakdown of these minerals is not very quick though it will probally be noticable over a period of a year or two. If i knew more about the sand i could give you a better guess as to what it is, but it is really diffuct to figure out this stuff over the net. If i had some of it i could do better, or even better if i went to the beaches and looked at the transport processes and source rocks and all that fun stuff (which is not likely to happen). WEll, that is my speil, i would just talk to the suppier and see if he knows the composition of the sand amd go from there.

05-24-2001, 09:48 AM	#1
icemark Governor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Rohnert Park, CA, USA Posts: 1,102	Black sand? I am thinking about doing Hawaiian tank with black sand bottom. Does anyone have experience with using black lava sand as a substrate? A couple of the LFS have it, but they generally recommend it for herps. Positives? Negatives (besides grain size being less that optimum)? ------------------ Mark Play Well

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05-24-2001, 09:55 AM	#2
Elmo18 Governor Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,514	Icemark, My opinion on black sand is that it will not form a deep sand bed for you. HOwever, I have gone to a LFS that also uses black sand on their display tank. The sand was about an inch high. HOwever, they do have a sump/refugium with a DSB. In my opinion, this does work , but not as efficient as a regular DSB of 4+ inches. Regards, Ilham [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

05-24-2001, 09:55 AM	#3
asmith Mayor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Lenexa, KS, USA Posts: 978	I don't have any experience with lava rock as a substrate, but I have heard of it being done before. I think one of the main concerns is that volcanic rock/sand contains lots of metals and other substances that could fuel algae blooms. I don't know if it would cause any other problems though. I think a black sand bed would look pretty cool. Andrew ------------------ Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that amateurs built the Ark. Professionals built the Titanic. [This message has been edited by asmith (edited 05-24-2001).]

05-24-2001, 07:29 PM	#4
ravenmore Mayor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: dallas, tx, USA Posts: 896	You can get black silica sand which is fine - it just won't help your calcium levels like argonite sand POSSIBLY could. (a lot of natural beaches are comprised of silica sand). Black sand tends to show debris more - looks good when it's clean though. -Mike ------------------ I didn't do it. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove anything. Website

05-24-2001, 07:52 PM	#5
RWD Council Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Chicago,Il USA Posts: 417	Don't have any experience but here's a tank that has it: http://www.geocities.com/psychocoral.../nanoreef.html ------------------ Visit my reef site at www.bobsreef.com Same site, different name.

05-24-2001, 08:19 PM	#6
icemark Governor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Rohnert Park, CA, USA Posts: 1,102	Yes, I understand about the lack of buffering, I wasn't real concerned since the tank it will be plumbed with has a 5" DSB of caribsea, and the sump between both has an additional 6" DSB. ------------------ Mark Play Well

05-25-2001, 09:38 AM	#7
nucleuscracker Mayor Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: MI Posts: 589	i brought back a chunk of volcanic rock that ended up in our beach bag...... is it safe to put in my new tank (now fish as of yet) if yes, then do I need to do anything to it before i toss it in the tank..its a pretty cool looking chunk - about the size of my palm... ------------------ Local Fish Store = Aquarists Toy Store...

05-25-2001, 09:59 AM	#8
Elmo18 Governor Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,514	nucleuscracker, Did you get the rock from a beach in Hawaii? Hawaiian legend says that the Goddess Pele, God of fire and volcanoes will do harm to those who take part of the island with them. I grew up in Hawaii, so I hear lots of legends. Regards, Ilham

05-25-2001, 07:19 PM	#9
ravenmore Mayor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: dallas, tx, USA Posts: 896	nucleuscracker - I'm always hesitant to put volcanic materials into a tank. Volcanic materials due to their source can be contaminated with heavy metals that can be deadly in a tank. Volcanic rock is likely to be mainly silica which is harmless, but still, why risk it? -Mike ------------------ I didn't do it. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove anything. Website

05-25-2001, 08:52 PM	#10
dsb1829 Council Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Santa Cruz,CA Posts: 438	I have had the caribsea black beauty sand in my 7g nano for the past several months. When I first decided to start the tank I asked the same question. The buffering debate got very hot. Basically the consensus is that the Ca based substrates do little in the way of buffering. The substrate does dissolve, but not in magnitude needed to do any type of buffering. If you feel like reading the thread over at RC here it is. http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin...threadid=18227 From what I have observed with this tank the substrate being of non Ca base doesn't seem to effect the tanks stability and operation at all. There are still those out there who use silica sand due to the inexpensive pricing. ------------------ Doug "Wait a minute. There's no Shamus McCloud in North Kilt Town" Homer Visit Our Tanks Homepage

05-26-2001, 11:18 AM	#11
nucleuscracker Mayor Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: MI Posts: 589	okay - so my wife was right. [img]/ubb/lol.gif[/img] ------------------ Local Fish Store = Aquarists Toy Store...

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05-26-2001, 11:35 AM	#12
BTL Citizen Join Date: May 2001 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 208	Ok, i am studying to be a geologyist and my only concern with black sand would be it breaking down in your tank to mud or the like. If it is derived from black silica (Obsidion) it will be fine becasue it is the same composition as normal sand (SiO2) but it just contains different trace elements which turn it black. If it is not derived from Silica then it most likely comes from other basaltic rocks (the type that make up hawaii and they have the same black color) and these sands will be high in relativly weak minerals like Olivine, Pyroxene and Amphibolites. This minerals break down relativly quickly and contain high ammounts of Magnesium, calcium, and iron. I dont know how these elements affect reefs but it is something to be aware of, the breakdown of these minerals is not very quick though it will probally be noticable over a period of a year or two. If i knew more about the sand i could give you a better guess as to what it is, but it is really diffuct to figure out this stuff over the net. If i had some of it i could do better, or even better if i went to the beaches and looked at the transport processes and source rocks and all that fun stuff (which is not likely to happen). WEll, that is my speil, i would just talk to the suppier and see if he knows the composition of the sand amd go from there.