AAAAAAAAAHHHHH! Or, why you should always think instead of just believing your LFS.

YoHo · 03-09-2002, 02:45 PM

Well, I HAD 2 fish in my Nano.

Here's the story. I had a huge Aptisia problem in my 10gal nano. A Week and a half ago, my LFS told me he'd be getting a huge shipment of Peppermint shrimp in. So I waited and waited and called last night. He said that he had sold most of them, but should still have a dozen or so. I drove the 40 minutes (it was rush hour) to his place and we went and looked. He couldn't find a single one. I was a bit upset obviously, but he said he'd be willing to sell me a siringe full of Acidic Acid. I was a bit skeptical, but he showed me how it worked in his own tanks. I was convinced, but concerned I asked about water changes. He said that the Sand would eat it up (he "proved it by empting the remaining Acid in the sand bed which did bubble up.)

Ignoring my good sense, I took it home and used it. about 1/3rd or ~1.7ml it did a good job and killed them apts dead. Checked on the fish. they looked a little stressed, but I figured that was from me rooting around. fed them (they ate) and went to bed. This morning I woke up to two dead fish and a cloudy tank. did a PH test and it didn't even read on the test kit. it was probably close to 6.
I KNEW I should have done a water change and I ignored my instincts. Don't ever let that happen to you. Luckily it was only two fish. I was upset, because I haven't lost a fish in like 4 years. I should have known better on a nano, but he said it would be fine with a 10 gallon.

Ironically, all my Inverts seemed to have survived. Saw some bristle worms and Micro Stars moving around. Even the Cucumber (yes, yes I shouldn't have him, but he came from my old 110 gallon. He's been doing great for 6 months)
With use of a goodly amount of buffer and a 50% Water change, I've gotten the PH back to 7.8 I'll let it sit a bit and bring it up to the 8s slowly.

Now All I have to figure out is what's making it cloudy.

Anyway, just wanted to share my grief, maybe get a recommendation on getting rid of the cloudyness and endure the abuse I will likely receive for my foolishness.

Thanks.

Northman_with_reef · 03-09-2002, 03:41 PM

Dude, that sucks!

I would make a BIG complaint to the supervisor at your LFS...

The same happend to me once.... -Sure that Formosa wrasse would do great in your reef ... I got home and read that it would grow to 60 cm...

Thomas

YoHo · 03-09-2002, 04:12 PM

Its a two person store and the person I talked to was the owner. I'm not too mad with him, I should have just done the water change anyway. I knew better.

Luckily I hadn't gotten any corals in the system yet.

Northman_with_reef · 03-09-2002, 04:19 PM

Still, He should'nt tell people this stuff without knowing exactly what he's doing.

What he told you was right for his system, but wrong for your system.
He cant just assume that what he does in his tanks will work for everyone(thats just stupid)
I dont trust anything my LFS tell me because i know they wrong 50% of the time.

organicreefer · 03-09-2002, 04:43 PM

im sorry ,but that guy is an a$$hole.
first off he obviously lied to you to get you to the store to try to sell you something .....
and second what an idiot for recommending any kind of acid.what an idiot.
if i had any choice at all ,i would never buy anything from that guy again,or at the minimum ,listen to NOTHING he says ,and correct him in front of his other customers at every opportunity.my .02

Northman_with_reef · 03-09-2002, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by YoHo
I'm not too mad with him, I should have just done the water change anyway. I knew better.

So your blaming yourself???
What if it was a person that did'nt know better, is he to blame himself, or the vendor whom told him what to do???

Catch my drift???

I dont wanna be a PITA, You came here for sympathy and you have my sympathy, but it seems like your blaming yourself for no reason....

Northman_with_reef · 03-09-2002, 07:59 PM

BTW, you might wanna run a mechanical filter to clear your tank up..

**Ninong** · 03-09-2002, 08:22 PM

YoHo,

All acid is acidic, so I guess you must mean acetic acid. I can't believe he would give you undiluted acetic acid and tell you to inject it into aiptasia in a 10-gal tank, but then again I am constantly amazed at what some LFS people will do. Are you sure it wasn't regular vinegar? Vinegar is about 5% acetic acid and is sometimes used to inject aiptasia, provided you do not attempt to inject more than two or three per day, and provided your tank is something larger than 10 gallons.

I would imagine that a 10-gal tank might be a problem with lowered pH even with regular vinegar, but I have heard of people using it in 75-gal plus tanks without problems... provided they don't overdo it.

YoHo · 03-10-2002, 03:11 AM

Yeah, dumb misspelling on my part. It very well could have been vinegar. I didn't see the label on the jug he got it from. It certainly smelled like Vinegar.

I honestly don't think he lied to me to get me in the store. He made an immense effort to find the shrimp, even looked in the sump in case some had gotten in there. At the same time, I think I will take your advice and avoid his shop when possible. the problem is he has a very nice shop.

organicreefer · 03-10-2002, 11:23 AM

yoho,just boil some salt water and inject youre anemones with that,thats what ive been doing lately with good success

YoHo · 03-10-2002, 02:45 PM

Before my fish died, I thought that the price I payed ($5)was decent for the syringe alone. Not knowing I'd lose $45 in fish. I figured that now I had something for use with boiling water and Kalkwasser Solutions And nobody was worried about me being a Heroin Addict to get it.

rayjay · 03-10-2002, 10:29 PM

I find it hard to understand how the acid if it was vinegar, could cause all this damage. When I was fortifying my calcium by using vinegar in Kalk, my reef tank would get a little more than 1/2 cup of vinegar each night in the lime water.
The only problem I had was eventual growth of hair algae which was overcome by doing frequent water changes for a while.
I use full strength hydro-chloric acid in a syringe to kill aptasia and all I noticed was a drop in the alkalinity. That was 3 or 4 yrs ago and I'm planning on doing it again as the aptasia have again gotten out of hand.
I only use one syringe (5 ml) each night until they're under control. When the alk drops I add reef builder to restore it.

YoHo · 03-11-2002, 01:29 PM

Well, did you have a 10 gallon tank? or something bigger?

Also, I didn't do anything to bring up my Alk and PH. PH was not measurable with my Test Kit which means the tank was actually acidic in the morning.

rayjay · 03-11-2002, 08:38 PM

Mine was a 90g tank but the 1/2 cup of vinegar would be much higher proportionaly to the 90 than 1.7 ml is to a 10g.

organicreefer · 03-11-2002, 08:49 PM

yoho wasnt using "whatever " it was with any kind of buffer............

the point is why use anything that is acidic to kill aiptasia at all in youre reef tank,let alone a 10g nano

yoho ,so the guy's a good actor i still say he lied to get you there to sell you something,and probly hoped youre fish would die so he could sell you more

no ,seriously

YoHo · 03-12-2002, 12:27 AM

Well, he has now lost the sale.

03-09-2002, 02:45 PM	#1
YoHo Tenant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: River Forest(soon to be Schaumburg) Il Posts: 89	AAAAAAAAAHHHHH! Or, why you should always think instead of just believing your LFS. Well, I HAD 2 fish in my Nano. Here's the story. I had a huge Aptisia problem in my 10gal nano. A Week and a half ago, my LFS told me he'd be getting a huge shipment of Peppermint shrimp in. So I waited and waited and called last night. He said that he had sold most of them, but should still have a dozen or so. I drove the 40 minutes (it was rush hour) to his place and we went and looked. He couldn't find a single one. I was a bit upset obviously, but he said he'd be willing to sell me a siringe full of Acidic Acid. I was a bit skeptical, but he showed me how it worked in his own tanks. I was convinced, but concerned I asked about water changes. He said that the Sand would eat it up (he "proved it by empting the remaining Acid in the sand bed which did bubble up.) Ignoring my good sense, I took it home and used it. about 1/3rd or ~1.7ml it did a good job and killed them apts dead. Checked on the fish. they looked a little stressed, but I figured that was from me rooting around. fed them (they ate) and went to bed. This morning I woke up to two dead fish and a cloudy tank. did a PH test and it didn't even read on the test kit. it was probably close to 6. I KNEW I should have done a water change and I ignored my instincts. Don't ever let that happen to you. Luckily it was only two fish. I was upset, because I haven't lost a fish in like 4 years. I should have known better on a nano, but he said it would be fine with a 10 gallon. Ironically, all my Inverts seemed to have survived. Saw some bristle worms and Micro Stars moving around. Even the Cucumber (yes, yes I shouldn't have him, but he came from my old 110 gallon. He's been doing great for 6 months) With use of a goodly amount of buffer and a 50% Water change, I've gotten the PH back to 7.8 I'll let it sit a bit and bring it up to the 8s slowly. Now All I have to figure out is what's making it cloudy. Anyway, just wanted to share my grief, maybe get a recommendation on getting rid of the cloudyness and endure the abuse I will likely receive for my foolishness. Thanks.

03-09-2002, 03:41 PM	#2
Northman_with_reef Stonehammer Productions ™ Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Norway(Scandinavia) Posts: 461	Dude, that sucks! I would make a BIG complaint to the supervisor at your LFS... The same happend to me once.... -Sure that Formosa wrasse would do great in your reef ... I got home and read that it would grow to 60 cm... Thomas __________________ They said aquariums would be relaxing......(yeah right) Saltvannsforum My LFS

03-09-2002, 04:19 PM	#4
Northman_with_reef Stonehammer Productions ™ Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Norway(Scandinavia) Posts: 461	Still, He should'nt tell people this stuff without knowing exactly what he's doing. What he told you was right for his system, but wrong for your system. He cant just assume that what he does in his tanks will work for everyone(thats just stupid) I dont trust anything my LFS tell me because i know they wrong 50% of the time. __________________ They said aquariums would be relaxing......(yeah right) Saltvannsforum My LFS

03-09-2002, 07:59 PM	#7
Northman_with_reef Stonehammer Productions ™ Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Norway(Scandinavia) Posts: 461	BTW, you might wanna run a mechanical filter to clear your tank up.. __________________ They said aquariums would be relaxing......(yeah right) Saltvannsforum My LFS

03-09-2002, 08:22 PM	#8
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20,691	YoHo, All acid is acidic, so I guess you must mean acetic acid. I can't believe he would give you undiluted acetic acid and tell you to inject it into aiptasia in a 10-gal tank, but then again I am constantly amazed at what some LFS people will do. Are you sure it wasn't regular vinegar? Vinegar is about 5% acetic acid and is sometimes used to inject aiptasia, provided you do not attempt to inject more than two or three per day, and provided your tank is something larger than 10 gallons. I would imagine that a 10-gal tank might be a problem with lowered pH even with regular vinegar, but I have heard of people using it in 75-gal plus tanks without problems... provided they don't overdo it. __________________ Ninong

03-09-2002, 04:12 PM	#3
YoHo Tenant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: River Forest(soon to be Schaumburg) Il Posts: 89	Its a two person store and the person I talked to was the owner. I'm not too mad with him, I should have just done the water change anyway. I knew better. Luckily I hadn't gotten any corals in the system yet.

03-09-2002, 04:43 PM	#5
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	im sorry ,but that guy is an a$$hole. first off he obviously lied to you to get you to the store to try to sell you something ..... and second what an idiot for recommending any kind of acid.what an idiot. if i had any choice at all ,i would never buy anything from that guy again,or at the minimum ,listen to NOTHING he says ,and correct him in front of his other customers at every opportunity.my .02

03-10-2002, 03:11 AM	#9
YoHo Tenant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: River Forest(soon to be Schaumburg) Il Posts: 89	Yeah, dumb misspelling on my part. It very well could have been vinegar. I didn't see the label on the jug he got it from. It certainly smelled like Vinegar. I honestly don't think he lied to me to get me in the store. He made an immense effort to find the shrimp, even looked in the sump in case some had gotten in there. At the same time, I think I will take your advice and avoid his shop when possible. the problem is he has a very nice shop.

03-10-2002, 11:23 AM	#10
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	yoho,just boil some salt water and inject youre anemones with that,thats what ive been doing lately with good success

03-10-2002, 02:45 PM	#11
YoHo Tenant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: River Forest(soon to be Schaumburg) Il Posts: 89	Before my fish died, I thought that the price I payed ($5)was decent for the syringe alone. Not knowing I'd lose $45 in fish. I figured that now I had something for use with boiling water and Kalkwasser Solutions And nobody was worried about me being a Heroin Addict to get it.

03-10-2002, 10:29 PM	#12
rayjay Citizen Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 154	I find it hard to understand how the acid if it was vinegar, could cause all this damage. When I was fortifying my calcium by using vinegar in Kalk, my reef tank would get a little more than 1/2 cup of vinegar each night in the lime water. The only problem I had was eventual growth of hair algae which was overcome by doing frequent water changes for a while. I use full strength hydro-chloric acid in a syringe to kill aptasia and all I noticed was a drop in the alkalinity. That was 3 or 4 yrs ago and I'm planning on doing it again as the aptasia have again gotten out of hand. I only use one syringe (5 ml) each night until they're under control. When the alk drops I add reef builder to restore it. __________________ *RAY'S REEF*

03-11-2002, 01:29 PM	#13
YoHo Tenant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: River Forest(soon to be Schaumburg) Il Posts: 89	Well, did you have a 10 gallon tank? or something bigger? Also, I didn't do anything to bring up my Alk and PH. PH was not measurable with my Test Kit which means the tank was actually acidic in the morning.

03-11-2002, 08:38 PM	#14
rayjay Citizen Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 154	Mine was a 90g tank but the 1/2 cup of vinegar would be much higher proportionaly to the 90 than 1.7 ml is to a 10g. __________________ *RAY'S REEF*

03-11-2002, 08:49 PM	#15
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	yoho wasnt using "whatever " it was with any kind of buffer............ the point is why use anything that is acidic to kill aiptasia at all in youre reef tank,let alone a 10g nano yoho ,so the guy's a good actor i still say he lied to get you there to sell you something,and probly hoped youre fish would die so he could sell you more no ,seriously

03-12-2002, 12:27 AM	#16
YoHo Tenant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: River Forest(soon to be Schaumburg) Il Posts: 89	Well, he has now lost the sale.

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