[PerryinCA]

Well, title pretty much says it all. Had a temp spike (from 82-87) and now I have noticed that at least 3 of my acros (2 of them captive grown small colonies) are bleaching, pretty severely. Someone closed my door, and the room turned into a steam room with the 95 degree outside weather. Of course, evaporative cooling doesn't work too well in humid environments.

I have brought the temp down. Has anyone else experienced this? If so what was the outcome? The polyps are still fine, and the coral still retains much of its protective pigments (tips and such), but it looks pretty bad aside from that. Should I move the coral to lower spots in the tank? I don't see how that might help, but its possible. Any thoughts? Again, this is bleaching and not RTN.

I am beginning to become more and more convinced that higher temps are not such a good idea. I am gonna aim for 80 for now.

-Perry

[PerryinCA]

also should have mentioned this has happened over a period of a few days. The spike was last week.

Thanks,

Perry

[Aragorn]

Perry,
Are your acro's bleaching from the base? Is there any tissue peeling? If not, they very well may recover. Bleaching in corals is not always fatal. If, as you say, some(but not all) of the pigments are still retained, I'd move them down a bit and see if they recover. FWIW

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[golfish]

Perry,
I have been wondering about the higher temps for sometime now. I asked Dr Ron a few weeks ago and he assured me that temps in the high 80's to even 90 were acceptable. I'll see if I can find his reply.

BTW, I know this doesn't help you and your corals. I hope they bounce back bigger and better. So far I've been able to keep my tank below 85...

[golfish]

Perry,
FWIW, here is Dr Ron's reply. I asked about a temp swing from 81-84
"Hi,

There is no problem at all with such a minor temperature swing. Most higer latitude reefs will have variations of 6-10 deg. F. in a day. The animals are well capable of with standing it."


Mark

[Ironreef]

aquarium corals states tanks that keep higher temps usually suffer less when temp jump. There exeriance. But ime I average 80-84 all year when temp jumps to high 80 for short term I haven't had a prob.

[PerryinCA]

Mark~Yea, I'm aware of Ron's beliefs, but I am really beginning to question his ideas on temp. Especially since reading what Harker, Sprung, Delbeek, Seigel....ect have said on the subject. I have yet to read Ron's references on this belief, but I have a feeling once I do I might not agree with his interpretation. His thoughts and that one article are the main reasons I never worried about temps getting up there, but after this episode, I will reconsider. Some of the widespread bleachings in the last few years have been 86-88 degrees, and it cause major Acroporid loss.

Dave~ Its definetly no RTN. It seems to have started from the tips and worked its way down, and its not been a rapid thing, but more of a progressive fading over the last several days. Now to the point where the coral is pretty white (or light cream) from what was a greenish golden brown. The tips are still purple, or blue though (I think the two purple tipped ones are from the same mother colony, or at least the same species. The Blue tipped one is what people normally identify as an A. formosa). I am just gonna wait it out and see what happens.


Iron~I my tank is kept at a minimum of 80.1 year-round. In the summer its normally around 82-83. I think thats on the upper side of normal..... I don't know though.
-Perry

[This message has been edited by PerryinCA (edited 05-25-2001).]

[Elmo18]

PerryCa,

Hello. I too have been wondering about temperature. I know Baywatch Babe used to live in Philippines and she took a temperature reading of the reef, and it was up in the high 80s, 87 or 88 i believe. If the ocean is that hot, or gets that warm, I do not think there will be a problem ofthe same thing happening in an aquarium.

Regards,
Ilham

[SPasse]

Hi All,

I did a bunch of soul searching before posting to this thread.

The temperature issue is one where seemingly convincing arguments can be made on both sides of the discussion.

I am as of now, still persuaded that the best “average” temperature for a reef tank is approx. 81 to 83 degrees.

I have personally never had a tank get over about 86 degrees. I use chillers so my range of temperature is quite narrow, only about a degree.

I have had an occasional new coral specimen temporarily bleach, if it had been previously kept at ~75 degrees.

But I have also talked to a few reef keepers who have had bleaching episodes that were apparently triggered by temperature excursions into the high eighties from a baseline temperature on the low eighties.

Regards,

Scott

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[Ironreef]

80 norm, to 84 high maybe a prob for some but ime it shouldn't be. alot of reefer tanks I've seen have bigger spikes no prob. Dunno why it bleached. could be a combo of things

[Mobious]

I didnt see in the thread, were the acros where bleaching.. However.. I was told that bleaching at the tips is new growth..

Is this right? The green acro I got a few months ago had white tips.. But now the tips are turning a peach color and have some polups on them..

[PerryinCA]

Originally posted by Ironreef:
80 norm, to 84 high maybe a prob for some but ime it shouldn't be. alot of reefer tanks I've seen have bigger spikes no prob. Dunno why it bleached. could be a combo of things

I think you hit it on the head...These particular Acro's just couldn't handle it I guess.
Over the last couple months I have brought my DKH up to about 10 from 7, and Ca up from 390 to about 450-460. Maybe that rise, in combination to the temp spike caused it... I dunno. Its still only these 3 specific ones....one wild colony, and two small captive ones. I know that an easy way to bleach a Acro is to increase the carbonate hardness to fast, and while I don't think three points over 3 months is too much...maybe it was.

I didnt see in the thread, were the acros where bleaching.. However.. I was told that bleaching at the tips is new growth..
Is this right? The green acro I got a few months ago had white tips.. But now the tips are turning a peach color and have some polups on them..

You are pretty close. The white tips aren't actually bleached...but they are often from fast growth. The terminal polyp sometimes assimilates the calcium faster than some one the photo pigments can be, or are, produced. Thats can actually be a pretty good sign that you have some explosive growth going on (provided the tank is stable...ect).

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I moved them a little lower in the tank, and will keep temp between 81 and 83. I'll update everyone if I see any changes.

-Perry


[This message has been edited by PerryinCA (edited 05-26-2001).]

[golfish]

Perry, wish I could just drop my temp any old time I want[img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] you must have a chiller? my wife would kill me if I bought a chiller[img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Since the big power crunch here in Calif there are tons of them for sell. I know this can only be a guess but what do you think it cost a month to run a chiller?

Mark

[This message has been edited by golfish (edited 05-26-2001).]

[Reef Engineer]

Perry,

C'mon, haven't you heard, high temps are good for your corals - makes them grow faster. [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img] That must be what's happening with your corals - the temperature got so high that they outgrew their coloration - yeah, that's the ticket. [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

Like yours, several of my corals weren't told that they do better in higher temps and began to bleach when - due to an oversight - the temperature was allowed to get into the high 80s (I believe it got as high as 87/8[img]/ubb/uhoh3.gif[/img]. The daytime high is usually ~82 in my tank although I strive to keep it under 80.

In any event, the coloration is coming back in one of the affected corals but the others are still partially bleached.

Randy


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[PerryinCA]

Originally posted by golfish:
Perry, wish I could just drop my temp any old time I want[img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] you must have a chiller? my wife would kill me if I bought a chiller[img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Since the big power crunch here in Calif there are tons of them for sell. I know this can only be a guess but what do you think it cost a month to run a chiller?

Mark

[This message has been edited by golfish (edited 05-26-2001).]

Mark, I have no clue. I use evap cooling (hence the temp spike when teh room is closed up and humidiyty skyrockets. I do have a window AC unit that (when turned on) keeps the room temp down. That is pretty cheap to run. I don't see how a chiller could make a huge dent in the power bill, especially if you hook up your fans/chiller, and heater to a two stage temp controller to keep them from fighting eachother. Smaller ones only have like a 3-3.5 amp startup draw...I don't know how many watts it would pull, but I don't think it'd be more than like $20-30 if setup properly. That is a huge guess though. The power situation robbed me of my plans for a BIG tank when I move into my house in July. Looks like a few 40 gallon "play tanks" for a while....

C'mon, haven't you heard, high temps are good for your corals - makes them grow faster. That must be what's happening with your corals - the temperature got so high that they outgrew their coloration - yeah, that's the ticket.

Like yours, several of my corals weren't told that they do better in higher temps and began to bleach when - due to an oversight - the temperature was allowed to get into the high 80s (I believe it got as high as 87/8. The daytime high is usually ~82 in my tank although I strive to keep it under 80.

In any event, the coloration is coming back in one of the affected corals but the others are still partially bleached.

hehe, knowing that we have been following the same thread on the subject... I just don't want my corals to slowly die at 79 degrees. [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

How long ago was your incident? I am really only worried about the formosa...but one of the other colonies just happened to be my first frag in the tank. It was surprising to read that Jerel has seen a reduction in stonies' ability to adapt once in a captive system for a period of time. Haven't had a chance to really read the post about the temp related bleachings that Sanjay posted.

-Perry

[Reef Engineer]

Perry,

I skimmed through Sanjay's posting but plan to go back and read it in full when I have some time - rather than five minutes here, ten minutes there like today.

I was gone on a business trip for 4 days and the tank was about 87/88 when I came back. My wife had not noticed that the doors to the stand (normally open) were closed and that the canopy fans (nine of them!) were unplugged for some reason (still haven't figured out why). The tank may have been at that temp for one day or as many as four - no way to determine at this point. My A.formosa did fine but an A.nana, A.nasuta, and unknown acro frag bleached as did an A.secale (coming back). About 95% of the xenia in my tank also bit the dust (which I consider a GOOD thing!). I also have an encrusting colony that I had recently gotten that also bleached but looks like it'll make it. There were a couple (2) small frags that bit the dust as well but I don't know whether it was due to the heat or just one of those things since they were new introductions.

I'm hoping that the affected corals come back - which may not happen since they are now being stressed in this lower temperature. [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

Randy

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Come meet the gang!
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[Baywatch Babe]

Originally posted by Elmo18:
I know Baywatch Babe used to live in Philippines and she took a temperature reading of the reef, and it was up in the high 80s, 87 or 88 i believe.

Temp reading was 90F on April 18, 2001 at 4:30pm, reef flat, depth of 4-5'.
[img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]


[This message has been edited by Baywatch Babe (edited 05-27-2001).]

[Elmo18]

Thanks for clarifying Baywatch Babe. I'm sorry I was wrong.

Regards,
Ilham [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

[Starmstr]

Perry you have been blessed by living in the mild climate of Livermore, not so in my case. Lets see 2 mths ago I was away for the week working and my wife didn't know to check the temp and down the lights if temps went above 86. Well I lost approximately 30 corals out of the 80 or so I use to have. What a heartbreaking experience. I lost 6 leathers a huge colony of xenia several mushooms and around 20 healthy and growing acro frags. For those acro's who were able to hang on recovery from bleaching is slow. 7 LPS corals have totaly recovered and the remaining softies look better, and 3-4 of the acros are regaining their zoo... amazingly enough one of the acro's has within the last 2 weeks grown approx 7 new branches 1/2 inch each... and the clam continues to grow at astounding rates. Anyways my solution is to quit stalking my system until after my move to the new home and a chiller is purchased.

[Ninong]

Originally posted by PerryinCA:

Yea, I'm aware of Ron's beliefs, but I am really beginning to question his ideas on temp. Especially since reading what Harker, Sprung, Delbeek, Seigel....ect have said on the subject. I have yet to read Ron's references on this belief...

Here ya go:

Prosser, C. L. ed. 1991. Environmental and Metabolic Animal Physiology. Wiley-Liss, Inc. New York, NY. 578pp .

Kleypas, J. A., J. W. McManus, and L. A. B. Menez. 1999. Environmental Limits to Coral Reef Development: Where Do We Draw The Line. American Zoologist. 39: 146-159.

The following are temperature and physical condition studies from various reefs:

Barnes, D. J. 1972. The structure and formation of growth-ridges in scleractinian coral skeletons. Proceedings of the Royal Society, London, Section B. Biological Sciences. 182:331-350.

Barnes, D. J. 1973. Growth in colonial scleractinians. Bulletin of Marine Science. 23:280-298.

Brown, B. E., R. P. Dunne and H. Chansung. 1996. Coral bleaching relative to elevated seawater temperature in the Andaman Sea (Indian Ocean) over the last 50 years. Coral Reefs. 15:151-152.

Buddemeier, R. W. and R. A. Kinzie. 1976. Coral Growth. Oceanography and Marine Biology: an Annual Review. 14:183-225.

Chen, C. A. 1999. Analysis of scleractinian distribution in Taiwan indicating a pattern congruent with sea surface temperatures and currents: examples from Acropora and Faviidae corals. Zoological Studies. 38:119-129.

Chornesky, E. and E. C. Peters. 1987. Sexual reproduction and colony growth in the scleractinian coral Porites astreoides. Biological Bulletin. 172:161-177.

Clausen, C. D. and A. A. Roth. 1975. Effect of temperature and temperature adaptation on calcification rate in the hermatypic coral Pocillopora damicornis. Marine Biology. 33:93-100.

Coles, S. L. 1997. Reef corals occurring in a highly fluctuating temperature environment at Fahal Island, Gulf of Oman (Indian Ocean). Coral Reefs. 16:269-272.

Coles, S. L. and P. L. Jokiel. 1977. Effects of temperature on photosynthesis and respiration in hermatypic corals. Marine Biology. 43:209-216.

Coles, S. L. and P. L. Jokiel. 1978. Synergistic effects of temperature, salinity and light on the hermatypic coral Montipora verrucosa. Marine Biology. 49:187-195.

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Gleason, M. G. 1993. Effects of disturbance on coral communities: Bleaching in Moorea, French Polynesia. Coral Reefs. 12:193-201.

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Hall, V. R. 1997. Effects of injury on growth, reproduction and survivorship for common reef-crest corals. In: Lessions, H. A. and I. G. Macintyre. Eds. Proceedings of the eighth international coral reef symposium, Panama, June 24-29, 1996. Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute. Balboa, Panama. pp. 571-574.

Haramaty, L., J. Achituv and Z. Dubinsky. 1997. Morphology, photoadaptation and autotrophy in hermatypic corals. In: Lessions, H. A. and I. G. Macintyre. Eds. Proceedings of the eighth international coral reef symposium, Panama, June 24-29, 1996. Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute. Balboa, Panama. pp. 855-859.

Harriott, V. J. 1997. Skeletal bulk density of the scleractinian coral Acropora formosa (Dana 1846) in tropical and subtropical Western Australia. In: Wells, F. E. Ed. Proceedings of the Seventh International Marine Biological Workshop: the marine flora and fauna of the Houtman Abrolhos Islands, Western Australia. Held at Beacon Island, Houtman Abrolhos Islands, Western Australia, in May 1994. Western Australian Museum. Perth. pp. 75-82.

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Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

P.S. - According to Sorokin (Coral Reef Ecology, p.405), normal summer temperatures in the tropics of 29-31C (83-87F) are within the upper normal growth limits of corals but that they can endure only short-term rises up to 34C (92F). He goes on to say that long-term exposure to temps above 32-34C (89-92F) can cause sufficient stress to initiate the bleaching process--the high temps stimulate the activity of the lysosomes in the cells of the zooxanthellae, triggering the process of their self-digestion in polyps (Sucharsono and Brown 1989).










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