Do you think this is overkill?

Marco · 07-09-2002, 09:19 AM

I will be getting a 180 soon that only has 4x96w pc's and 2x175w MH. I am thinking of adding 3x250w MH to this current setup do you folks think this is overkill? I will be taking all my SPS and clams from my 30gal and plan on the 180 to be a mix of SPS, LPS, and Softies. I plan to put the PC's on the outside then the MH like this: 250-175-250-175-250 along the length. The 250s will be 65K Iwasakis and the 175 will be 10K Ushios. By the way this tank does have a chiller, and I will have 4 4" fans in the canopy.

SueT · 07-09-2002, 11:33 AM

Marco, I have 3 250w 65k iwasaki's over my 180 and it is plenty of light for my all sps/clam tank. I am only using 2 160w vho actinics for supplementation. I would be concerned putting even a 175w over the braces. I promise you the 3 250w MH's are enough for sps and clams. I have my clams about half way down and they are absolutely fine. I think the 250w iwasaki's will be fine but using the extra 2 175w IMO, is just not needed. HTH..

my 180 ecosystem sps/clam tank:
http://berlinmethod.com/suet/
my 120 ecosystem sps/clam tank:
http://suetruett.homestead.com/home.html

PerryinCA · 07-09-2002, 12:11 PM

Hi Marco,

I'll agree with Sue on this one that 3 Iwasaki's would be enough, but I don't know about any of the higher K lamps.

Then again, I would be leery about putting lamps over any bracing. Is it plastic or glass bracing? If you could fit the 175s, and keep them away from the bracing, I would say go for it. To me, there is no such thing as overkill (within reason

).

If you use 3 250w 10k with good reflectors, you'd have no problem keeping a good mix of everything you want. Just be aware of placement needs for light thirsty coral.

-Perry

Marco · 07-09-2002, 01:46 PM

The tank is an Oceanic with glass center brace.
I know the 3 250 will be sufficient but I was thinking that having all 5 MH would be even better. I figured the 175 10Ks would offset the yellow color of the Iwasakis. I also thought having the 175s on either side of the 250 over the center brace would keep the center of the tank from being dimmer than the ends.

**scubadude** · 07-09-2002, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marco
The tank is an Oceanic with glass center brace.
I know the 3 250 will be sufficient but I was thinking that having all 5 MH would be even better.

I agree w/Sue and Perry that the 3 250's would be enough too. If you are asking would it be better w/ the five...then YES im sure you would get some awesome growth rates....but I would be worried about alot of issues that you need to be prepared to deal with....massive topoff from evaporation, your chiller will probably be cycling on for alot longer time frames. You would have to sloooowly aclimate your corals to this intense lighting. and every time you added a coral you would have to figure out some way of acclimating it too....I dont see the need for all this light especially if its not a strict SPS/Clam tank and you want softies and LPS in there.

SueT · 07-09-2002, 07:51 PM

Scubadude is right about the chiller running. Marco you live down here near me {basically} and my CSL 1/3 hp. chiller is now running from late morning til after I go to bed midnight-ish. This is a new chiller and with the heat it is about all it can handle. I don't know if Keith was getting the chiller for you too or if one came with this tank but for this neck of the woods I am having to turn off my MH's in the afternoons due to the heat. So this tank has 1 single center brace, right?? My 180 has 2 braces spaced at a third of the tank so that is why 3 MH's fit perfectly.

my 180 ecosystem sps/clam tank:
http://berlinmethod.com/suet/
my 120 ecosystem sps/clam tank:
http://suetruett.homestead.com/home.html

mrok12 · 07-09-2002, 08:11 PM

I agree with all the above, I have two 400,s 65k over a 120 gallon and two 55 watt pc's. You really should be ok with just the three 250's man. Hey sue what is up lately? Invest in a calcium reactor if you don't have one but don' put up a Las Vegas Light show over your tank .........Good intentions......................> you know the rest of it

MROK12

SueT · 07-09-2002, 08:56 PM

mrok, Hi, same ole' same ole. You got 400w?? I can't wait to get rid of mine. I hate them and the corals hate them too. I am doing the 400w 20 radiums on a pfo hqi ballast. I have just heard too much good stuff about these and since the 400w iwasaki's are too hot I think these others will be great. I like the "look" of the 400w iwasaki's but the corals have not done anything under them, color wise, growth wise and if they don't grow or look good some thing is wrong. This has been analyzed to death but no one can figure out what happened. I have yet to get a calcium reactor for either tank, stuff still grows like crazy.

my 180 ecosystem sps/clam tank:
http://berlinmethod.com/suet/
my 120 ecosystem sps/clam tank:
http://suetruett.homestead.com/home.html

organicreefer · 07-09-2002, 10:19 PM

i like youre idea of five halides if you can afford the e bill....

how about 3 250 watt 10ks and 2 175 watt higher k bulbs (whats the blueest 175w bulb?)
that would be awesome.

organicreefer · 07-09-2002, 10:21 PM

3 250 radiums and 2 175 w ushios

organicreefer · 07-09-2002, 11:32 PM

3x 175 ushios and 2 400 w radiums.

definitely my choice no doubt about it.

mrok12 · 07-10-2002, 09:09 AM

So Sue,

You are still going to run a 400 watt ballast just different bulbs? ( the radiums instead of the Iwasaki's) I had thought at one time to use the 2-250 watt MH I have flanking those 400's with a 65K and 20K combo and ichsnay the pc's but I thought it would be to much. Do the radiums run cooler than the Iwasaki's and do you have to run these on an HQI ballast?

MROK12

Marco · 07-10-2002, 09:19 AM

Sue, yes the tank has 1 center brace in the middle so if there is only 3 MH one of them will be over the center brace and I am sure cut down on alot of the light in the middle. The chiller coming on the tank and it is older. I plan to put the chiller in the garage and plumb through the wall to cut down on the noise and heat. I have not talked to Keith about this light idea yet to see what he thinks. I would love to come by sometime and see your tanks. Thanks for all the replys folks.

SueT · 07-10-2002, 11:03 AM

Marco, So that would put a kink in the lighting plans with a center brace. My 180 Keith had built locally and has the 2 braces. Well, now things need to take a different road. If the chiller is old I would be concerned with it being able to "keep up" with the heat during our summers down here. Any time you'd like to stop by is fine. I'm always here. I wonder if you went with 4 MH's and faced the bulbs at each other on either side of the brace what that would do. Seems to me like it would crank for you. That way you would have 4 of the halides and the tank might not be too hard to keep cool. Do ask Keith though.

I am going to see about getting a pfo hqi ballast and using the 400w 20k radiums. I know that the hqi ballast will shorten the length of life on the blubs as it makes them burn brighter so not so blue. I am almost ready to do something as of now I'm ready to be rid of these 400w iwasaki's.

my 180 ecosystem sps/clam tank:
http://berlinmethod.com/suet/
my 120 ecosystem sps/clam tank:
http://suetruett.homestead.com/home.html

mrok12 · 07-10-2002, 06:10 PM

Sue,

Are you using the 400 watt radiums right now? I ordered some today to see if it will make a difference to the corals. The 400's are on my 120 gallon. I am thinking of slapping on some 250 watt 65 k as I have the stuff lying around here and running a 20K/6500 k combo and getting rid of the pc's all together now. See what you do to me.... You say 20K I drop 170 bucks!!!!!!!!!! TTYL

MROK12

organicreefer · 07-10-2002, 06:29 PM

my radium is on the way too

ill be running 2x175w ushios and a 400w radium with 2x110 actinics on my 120

SueT · 07-10-2002, 07:46 PM

Mike, on the 180 I am totally happy with, I am running 3 250w iwasaki's on the 120 I am currently running 2 400w iwasaki's. I am going to try the 400w 20k radiums. Everyone is saying they are the look they like and supposedly the sps corals have nicer colors. Steve Tyree used these lights way before using them was cool.

The other lighting combo everyone is talking about are the 250w 10k DE hqi's on a hqi ballast. Of course when I switched to the 400w iwasaki's that was when everyone was saying you had to have that and we see now where that got me.

my 180 ecosystem sps/clam tank:
http://berlinmethod.com/suet/
my 120 ecosystem sps/clam tank:
http://suetruett.homestead.com/home.html

mrok12 · 07-10-2002, 09:43 PM

I am running the 65 k's for the growth factor and the 20,000k for the coloration factor. I spoke with some guys after I read this post today and now I understand it a little better. The color pigments respond best to shorter wave lenghts like blue and violet. But to get good growth you need full spectrum to support loads of the dinoflagellate zooxanthanae that reside in the tissue. I read that palleta uses a 65/20 combo and I have seen pictures of the tank in publishings. I will use 400 20k's and 250 65k's and see what I get. I think I will nix the pc's all together too. I am unsure on a photo period but am leaning toward 10-11 hours. I will post pics when they get here and I get this together.

MROK12

SueT · 07-11-2002, 12:59 AM

I didn't even get good growth out of my 400's. In fact they stunted the growth. After these lights had been up for about 5-6 months I traded some frags with Mike Paletta and actually got some nice coloration in frags of his that he didn't have. His acropora robusta stag is a deep dark blue in his tank in mine it turned a beautiful even lighter blue. I have experienced this on several frags I have gotten lately. Weird, but true. Eric's book explains the coloration factor quite well in regard to lighting and pigments in the corals.

my 180 ecosystem sps/clam tank:
http://berlinmethod.com/suet/
my 120 ecosystem sps/clam tank:
http://suetruett.homestead.com/home.html

mrok12 · 07-11-2002, 09:31 AM

Sue,

Do your corals color up better under these radiums? That is what I am hoping for while keeping with the 250 watt 65k bulbs for growth. I am also turning my 65 gallon into a lps/shroom tank. It is proving to be too hooottt for the tank in the room it is in. This room is exposed to afternoon sun all day!!!! With the halides it heats up!!!! So i am gonna use some pc's I have and do the soft thing.

MROK12

07-09-2002, 09:19 AM	#1
Marco Tenant Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 53	Do you think this is overkill? I will be getting a 180 soon that only has 4x96w pc's and 2x175w MH. I am thinking of adding 3x250w MH to this current setup do you folks think this is overkill? I will be taking all my SPS and clams from my 30gal and plan on the 180 to be a mix of SPS, LPS, and Softies. I plan to put the PC's on the outside then the MH like this: 250-175-250-175-250 along the length. The 250s will be 65K Iwasakis and the 175 will be 10K Ushios. By the way this tank does have a chiller, and I will have 4 4" fans in the canopy.

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07-09-2002, 11:33 AM	#2
SueT Mayor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Houston,Tex. USA Posts: 544	Marco, I have 3 250w 65k iwasaki's over my 180 and it is plenty of light for my all sps/clam tank. I am only using 2 160w vho actinics for supplementation. I would be concerned putting even a 175w over the braces. I promise you the 3 250w MH's are enough for sps and clams. I have my clams about half way down and they are absolutely fine. I think the 250w iwasaki's will be fine but using the extra 2 175w IMO, is just not needed. HTH.. my 180 ecosystem sps/clam tank: http://berlinmethod.com/suet/ my 120 ecosystem sps/clam tank: http://suetruett.homestead.com/home.html

07-09-2002, 12:11 PM	#3
PerryinCA Governor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Folsom, CA Posts: 2,103	Hi Marco, I'll agree with Sue on this one that 3 Iwasaki's would be enough, but I don't know about any of the higher K lamps. Then again, I would be leery about putting lamps over any bracing. Is it plastic or glass bracing? If you could fit the 175s, and keep them away from the bracing, I would say go for it. To me, there is no such thing as overkill (within reason ). If you use 3 250w 10k with good reflectors, you'd have no problem keeping a good mix of everything you want. Just be aware of placement needs for light thirsty coral. -Perry

07-09-2002, 01:46 PM	#4
Marco Tenant Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 53	The tank is an Oceanic with glass center brace. I know the 3 250 will be sufficient but I was thinking that having all 5 MH would be even better. I figured the 175 10Ks would offset the yellow color of the Iwasakis. I also thought having the 175s on either side of the 250 over the center brace would keep the center of the tank from being dimmer than the ends.

07-09-2002, 07:51 PM	#6
SueT Mayor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Houston,Tex. USA Posts: 544	Scubadude is right about the chiller running. Marco you live down here near me {basically} and my CSL 1/3 hp. chiller is now running from late morning til after I go to bed midnight-ish. This is a new chiller and with the heat it is about all it can handle. I don't know if Keith was getting the chiller for you too or if one came with this tank but for this neck of the woods I am having to turn off my MH's in the afternoons due to the heat. So this tank has 1 single center brace, right?? My 180 has 2 braces spaced at a third of the tank so that is why 3 MH's fit perfectly. my 180 ecosystem sps/clam tank: http://berlinmethod.com/suet/ my 120 ecosystem sps/clam tank: http://suetruett.homestead.com/home.html

07-09-2002, 08:11 PM	#7
mrok12 Mayor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Van Buren, MI Posts: 1,052	I agree with all the above, I have two 400,s 65k over a 120 gallon and two 55 watt pc's. You really should be ok with just the three 250's man. Hey sue what is up lately? Invest in a calcium reactor if you don't have one but don' put up a Las Vegas Light show over your tank .........Good intentions......................> you know the rest of it MROK12

07-09-2002, 08:56 PM	#8
SueT Mayor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Houston,Tex. USA Posts: 544	mrok, Hi, same ole' same ole. You got 400w?? I can't wait to get rid of mine. I hate them and the corals hate them too. I am doing the 400w 20 radiums on a pfo hqi ballast. I have just heard too much good stuff about these and since the 400w iwasaki's are too hot I think these others will be great. I like the "look" of the 400w iwasaki's but the corals have not done anything under them, color wise, growth wise and if they don't grow or look good some thing is wrong. This has been analyzed to death but no one can figure out what happened. I have yet to get a calcium reactor for either tank, stuff still grows like crazy. my 180 ecosystem sps/clam tank: http://berlinmethod.com/suet/ my 120 ecosystem sps/clam tank: http://suetruett.homestead.com/home.html

07-09-2002, 10:19 PM	#9
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	i like youre idea of five halides if you can afford the e bill.... how about 3 250 watt 10ks and 2 175 watt higher k bulbs (whats the blueest 175w bulb?) that would be awesome.

07-09-2002, 10:21 PM	#10
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	3 250 radiums and 2 175 w ushios

07-09-2002, 11:32 PM	#11
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	3x 175 ushios and 2 400 w radiums. definitely my choice no doubt about it.

07-10-2002, 09:09 AM	#12
mrok12 Mayor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Van Buren, MI Posts: 1,052	So Sue, You are still going to run a 400 watt ballast just different bulbs? ( the radiums instead of the Iwasaki's) I had thought at one time to use the 2-250 watt MH I have flanking those 400's with a 65K and 20K combo and ichsnay the pc's but I thought it would be to much. Do the radiums run cooler than the Iwasaki's and do you have to run these on an HQI ballast? MROK12

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07-10-2002, 09:19 AM	#13
Marco Tenant Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 53	Sue, yes the tank has 1 center brace in the middle so if there is only 3 MH one of them will be over the center brace and I am sure cut down on alot of the light in the middle. The chiller coming on the tank and it is older. I plan to put the chiller in the garage and plumb through the wall to cut down on the noise and heat. I have not talked to Keith about this light idea yet to see what he thinks. I would love to come by sometime and see your tanks. Thanks for all the replys folks.

07-10-2002, 11:03 AM	#14
SueT Mayor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Houston,Tex. USA Posts: 544	Marco, So that would put a kink in the lighting plans with a center brace. My 180 Keith had built locally and has the 2 braces. Well, now things need to take a different road. If the chiller is old I would be concerned with it being able to "keep up" with the heat during our summers down here. Any time you'd like to stop by is fine. I'm always here. I wonder if you went with 4 MH's and faced the bulbs at each other on either side of the brace what that would do. Seems to me like it would crank for you. That way you would have 4 of the halides and the tank might not be too hard to keep cool. Do ask Keith though. I am going to see about getting a pfo hqi ballast and using the 400w 20k radiums. I know that the hqi ballast will shorten the length of life on the blubs as it makes them burn brighter so not so blue. I am almost ready to do something as of now I'm ready to be rid of these 400w iwasaki's. my 180 ecosystem sps/clam tank: http://berlinmethod.com/suet/ my 120 ecosystem sps/clam tank: http://suetruett.homestead.com/home.html

07-10-2002, 06:10 PM	#15
mrok12 Mayor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Van Buren, MI Posts: 1,052	Sue, Are you using the 400 watt radiums right now? I ordered some today to see if it will make a difference to the corals. The 400's are on my 120 gallon. I am thinking of slapping on some 250 watt 65 k as I have the stuff lying around here and running a 20K/6500 k combo and getting rid of the pc's all together now. See what you do to me.... You say 20K I drop 170 bucks!!!!!!!!!! TTYL MROK12

07-10-2002, 06:29 PM	#16
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	my radium is on the way too ill be running 2x175w ushios and a 400w radium with 2x110 actinics on my 120

07-10-2002, 07:46 PM	#17
SueT Mayor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Houston,Tex. USA Posts: 544	Mike, on the 180 I am totally happy with, I am running 3 250w iwasaki's on the 120 I am currently running 2 400w iwasaki's. I am going to try the 400w 20k radiums. Everyone is saying they are the look they like and supposedly the sps corals have nicer colors. Steve Tyree used these lights way before using them was cool. The other lighting combo everyone is talking about are the 250w 10k DE hqi's on a hqi ballast. Of course when I switched to the 400w iwasaki's that was when everyone was saying you had to have that and we see now where that got me. my 180 ecosystem sps/clam tank: http://berlinmethod.com/suet/ my 120 ecosystem sps/clam tank: http://suetruett.homestead.com/home.html

07-10-2002, 09:43 PM	#18
mrok12 Mayor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Van Buren, MI Posts: 1,052	I am running the 65 k's for the growth factor and the 20,000k for the coloration factor. I spoke with some guys after I read this post today and now I understand it a little better. The color pigments respond best to shorter wave lenghts like blue and violet. But to get good growth you need full spectrum to support loads of the dinoflagellate zooxanthanae that reside in the tissue. I read that palleta uses a 65/20 combo and I have seen pictures of the tank in publishings. I will use 400 20k's and 250 65k's and see what I get. I think I will nix the pc's all together too. I am unsure on a photo period but am leaning toward 10-11 hours. I will post pics when they get here and I get this together. MROK12

07-11-2002, 12:59 AM	#19
SueT Mayor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Houston,Tex. USA Posts: 544	I didn't even get good growth out of my 400's. In fact they stunted the growth. After these lights had been up for about 5-6 months I traded some frags with Mike Paletta and actually got some nice coloration in frags of his that he didn't have. His acropora robusta stag is a deep dark blue in his tank in mine it turned a beautiful even lighter blue. I have experienced this on several frags I have gotten lately. Weird, but true. Eric's book explains the coloration factor quite well in regard to lighting and pigments in the corals. my 180 ecosystem sps/clam tank: http://berlinmethod.com/suet/ my 120 ecosystem sps/clam tank: http://suetruett.homestead.com/home.html

07-11-2002, 09:31 AM	#20
mrok12 Mayor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Van Buren, MI Posts: 1,052	Sue, Do your corals color up better under these radiums? That is what I am hoping for while keeping with the 250 watt 65k bulbs for growth. I am also turning my 65 gallon into a lps/shroom tank. It is proving to be too hooottt for the tank in the room it is in. This room is exposed to afternoon sun all day!!!! With the halides it heats up!!!! So i am gonna use some pc's I have and do the soft thing. MROK12