Documenting My New Tank!

[Reefland]

I am starting this thread to document my new, upcoming tank. As I progress through the planning, set-up and development, I will frequently post updates for everyone to review. Perry and I have discussed documenting the steps for a while and I thought in threaded format would be best for me.

A Little History:

I have been reefkeeping since 97 and have been through many ups and downs. Each time I sat a tank up (I’ve had a few ) I used the knowledge I have gained through the Internet; attempting each time to develop a new success story. After buying a house last year, I didn't have the time to move the tank so I took down my soft coral tank and have been without since.

Planning Begins!:eek3:

Around early June, I started thinking about a new tank. I knew space would be limited but I also knew I wanted an SPS/Clam tank. I wanted something with plenty of depth (my last tank was 18" front to back) so I set my mind on 24" deep.

Going 24" deep and keeping it small so to speak leaves searching for a custom build either 36x24x20 or 24x24x20. As of 8-26, I'm still undecided. I have done some searching around for prices which have ranged from $300 - $650 + shipping. I'm going with only 1 overflow and have decided on a black back and black corner overflow.

Plenty of light is the obvious for SPS and I have always enjoyed the tanks lit by AB DE systems. After doing some talking with friends I concluded that I wanted 1-250w 10k DE in a hanging pendent for sure but am still left undecided on whether or not to supplement with any actinic. If I do, I will use just 1 or 2 NO actinic but will wait to get everything set-up before making that decision.

For circulation, I wanted 1500-2000gph; going with more vs. not enough and being stuck with power heads in the tank. I am thinking that I can go with a 1" return and T it off 3 ways to give me plenty of ways to angle the flow and perhaps putting 1 Sea Swirl on one output for a sweeping current as well. Going with a reliable pump is critical in my opinion for long-lasting performance however I don't want anything that will produce a lot of heat or take up tons of space.

Filtration is my next piece to consider. Sure there will be the obvious; lots of LR and LS but that still leaves some options open. I like the thought of a refugium (had them before) for the diversity and room for natural nutrient export but space under this small of a tank will be the deciding point. There are a lot of options out there for skimming too! AquaC, AquaMedic and myreef creations are top on my list. Where I'm undecided is do I need to go with something powerful or will something smaller work since I plan on using the refugium too. If I go with AquaC, do I use an Urchin pro or go with a new EV model? After talking with Andy at myreef, he suggested a MR-1 with a Mag 5 to power it stating it would be great. If I go with the Turboflotor, I'm going with the AquaBee pump for sure. Decisions, decisions!

RO/DI water will also be a must so I am contemplating the Oceanus model from ARS. I have worked with Bryan in the past and he has always done me good so I think it's just a matter of getting it. Besides, he does offer a 15% discount to Reefland members. ;)

Where I'm at to Date:

I have started gathering some of my equipment. To date I have the following:

1 - 250w 10k DE lighting system powered by the Sunlight Supply Blue Wave ballast with the Reef Optix III Reflector. I am extremely pleased with it. Here is a thread I posted it when I received it:
http://209.151.83.92/forum/showthread.php?threadid=7851

1 - MAG 18 pump for my return. This falls into the specs I wanted of 1500-2000gph, producing little heat and small enough to fit inside my sump (whatever it will be). I am definitely going to T the return I just haven't figured out whether it will be 2 or 3 times. Either way, the MAG 18 will be more than enough!


Well that is where I am at as of 8-26. I will continue to update this thread as I progress; probably just blabbing in it from time to time. All comments, suggestions and experiences welcome!

Scott Z.

[myreef]

Originally posted by Reefland
After talking with Andy at myreef, he suggested a MR-1 with a Mag 5 to power it stating it would be great. Decisions, decisions!


Scott Z.

If i said 5 in the email Scott.....I meant 9 for your setup.....

Thanks!

[Reefland]

You did say a 9 instead of a 12. Thanks for picking up on that!

Scott Z.

[Reefland]

Ok, I have a bit of an update on the custom aquarium. I called Inter American and talked to Mitch and he gave me the following quote:

24x24x20 Starphire on the front and ends, black mirror back and overflow, ground and polished edges for $250 + $125 maximum guaranteed quote. Time frame would be 4 weeks ( so probably 6-8) since they are moving to a new shop. Half up front the other half prior to shipping. Shipping would be paid from his end.

This isn't a bad price IMO; in fact better than I have received for acrylic tanks in the states.

Scott Z.

[Ninong]

OK, so are you saying the price is $250.00 plus $125.00 shipping? That sounds reasonable. So I guess that's 12 mm Starphire on three sides with Black Indicoat Mirror for the back and overflow. Sounds great. Hmmm... mine has greylite for the overflow. Seems like Black Indicoat Mirror would be better. But why only 20" tall? Considering the sandbed takes up space, why not make it 24x24x24?

Just be sure you agree on exactly how the top bracing will be. I would imagine perimeter Starphire all around with no center brace, right? My tank has 19 mm float glass for the bottom but I would suggest 15 mm float glass for the bottom of yours. His tanks are terribly heavy!!!

Oh, and you're right about the 4-week delivery promise. Just figure you'll get it by Halloween if you order it tomorrow.

I think that's the way to go because I know you will really like the Starphire glass and the Black Indicoat Mirror backing.

Good luck!

[Papa Doug]

Hi Scott,
I once had a 24-24-24 tank. Its was lit with a single 250 watt Iwasaki in a vertical pendant. Did the job just fine.

If it was mine, and it was going to be all sps and clams, I would have used a 400- 20K Radium, on the Blue Wave. Just my preference.

I would also, use a smaller Euroreef on the tank. Very good skimming, power smart, easy to use, sits in the sump and well built. Again my own preference.

[Reefland]

I thought about a 400w initially but decided to go with the 250 AB DE for the small pendent, lower power consumption and less heat. I really like the coloration of the 250w 10K DE as well.

Do you have a link to the small Euroreef your mentioning? Also what kind of pump would you use to power it?

Also if anyone cares to repond here, check out this thread regarding overflow dimensions:
http://209.151.83.92/forum/showthread.php?threadid=7906

Thanks,
Scott Z.

[Reefland]

Your right Ninong, I should probably go 24" tall due to the sandbed depth. I wouldn't think it would raise the price much if any?

Next thinking about the drain and return. I think I am going to go with a 1.5" drain using 2" plumbing for the standpipe. I still don't know how large the overflow should be though. I will go with a 1" return (the MAG documentation states this will provide maximum flow) and T it off to 3 coming out of the overflow box providing enough direction for flow throughout the tank. Sound right? The 1 1.5" drain with a 2" standpipe will be plenty for the MAG 18 which will be returning ~1200gph at 4' head.

Thoughts?
Scott Z.

[Papa Doug]

Scott, here is their homepage. They sell direct, but one can use an online retailer also.
http://www.euro-reef.com

The CS6-1 is the smallest, using a Sedra 3500 pump. That would be super energy efficient, yet provide decent skimming.

If you have 24 inches under the tank, plus a hair to lift the cup off, I would use the CS6-2. It uses a Sedra 5000. Thats what I had on my old F-1, which is a similar model. Man that pump was nice. There is a $100 difference to move up to that model though.

I have never seen the Sedra 3500 in action, but if its as good as the others, then perhaps the smaller would be fine for your situation.

[Ninong]

Scott,

A single 1.5" drain would be fine for that size tank. You need the overflow to be at least 6" x 9" to accomodate both the Stockman standpipe fitting and the return plumbing. My single corner overflow on my 120-gal tank is 6" x 10" and it looks like I can easily get the plumbing in there but without much extra space.

The reason that my Starphire tank is 27" tall is because when I told Mitch that I wanted it to be 22" tall, he told me that the price was the same for 22", 24" or even 27". Same thing happened to Paul and Susan when they ordered theirs just after mine. That's why their tanks are 60"L x 24"W x 27"H. They could have made them 27"W for the exact same price but they wanted to use standard size stands. Don't you remember seeing all the IA Starphire tanks on this board that measured 60"x27"x27"? There were at least 3 or 4 of them.

Don't you remember us talking about that? The reason is because the Starphire panes are 108" x 130" and 108" divided by 27" is exactly 4 = fewer cuts. You might be able to get 27"x27"x27" for the same price... and if you are building your own stand, what difference does it make? The single 250w 10,000K HQI DE lamp at 9" over the water will be fine for that size. Also, that allows for a 5"-6" sandbed, too. Anyway, 27x27x27 = 85-gal, and it wouldn't cost you more than a few pennies more to set it up. Just a little extra live rock and sand because the skimmer, return pump, lighting, etc., will all be the same whether it's 24x24x20 or 27x27x27. That's either 50-gallons or 85-gallons... and the cost will be almost the same! I'm sure Mitch can do 27x27x27 with just perimeter bracing. Don't forget to tell him to make the bracing with Starphire glass.

And then you could copy that Japanese square tank that I posted the picture of, remember?




This one:

[Reefland]

Yes, I am going to build my own stand so theres no problem there. I do remember the discussions regarding the sizes and now that you mention it directly, I remember the cost not changing when going with the extra inches. I will give him a call back and see if that is the case here; 27x27x27 would be awesome!

Your overflow is 6x10 and just enough to fit a stockman pipe; that seems like a big chunk to take out of 27x27? If the stockman is working just as good, I guess that is the route I will go. I think I'll drop a line to Ltspd to see if he'll comment on his overflow.

I was orginally planning the light to be 7" from the surface but moving it up 2" will be worth the space gain in the display!

Just some notes for me:
27x27x27 12mm Starphire on front and ends, ground and polished edges using the black indicoat mirror on the back and for the 6x10 overflow; 1.5" drain and 1" return. 15mm float glass bottom with styrofoam attached. Perimeter bracing of Starphire as well.
Thanks for the information Ninong! I'll call him tomorrow.

Scott Z.

[Ltspd]

Scott,

You want the stockman. The Durso also works fine but requires more room. If you could bring the return up from another point (not inside the overflow box) then you can size down the overflow. The stockman, if you have a 1-1/2 drain will be made from 2" pipe. The largest pc on the stockman is the coupling that covers the reducer bushing. If you order the PVC parts online then you can use a 2-3 reducer and hence a 3" coupling. The the largest space you would need is the od of the coupling plus some for hand room. Provided you dont have the return line coming up inside the box then your required working room is almost nothing. If the overflow is in the corner take into consideration the perimeter bracing taking away from the space you have (ask Susan).

Look at your tank, and what types of things you require. Closed loop?, additional return lines? Etc. Have any extra holes drilled now, its much easier. I would rather plug the bulkhead then have to run pipes all over the place to do it later ;)

IMO you will want actinics to go along with the 10kk bulb. The NO will be fine.

You are wise in your planning. Taking power consumption into consideration is wise. My tank is killing me in that department and I am going to have to make some serious changes soon

[scubadude]

Scott,

This tank is gonna RAWK! I know because you dragged Paul out of the closet.... You know im just jokeing bro! I do agree totally w/paul on the stockman overflow and room situation. I would also consider even going a step or 2 further in your effeciency on the tank and consider the tank to even be shallower than 20"....maybe like 16" to 18" I would make this tank moreso viewable from the top and hanging lights naturally. You would have more par in essence because of the less depth penetration required...I would make the tank with a DSB still (4-5") but I wouldnt use just any LR's with the tank I would use branch and shelf rock only...and drill holes in the rocks everywhere I wanted a coral frag/colony to be mounted. preplanning this tank can be as indepth as you wanted...even a SB only in the display tank and a fuge w/lots of LR and macros etc for your natural filtration which makes sooo much more sense in more ways than one to me. Leave room in your tank for the SPS to grow out dont overwhelm it w/rocks...and the rocks that you do put in there need to be very selective and frag-mounting freindly....this is one of the reason why I like making aragocrete...Im thinking of doing some growout tanks w/some features like I mention...maybe even only one DIY aragocrete rock (or 2) but very large flat piece (s) and they not just sitting on the SB either.

Dont get me wrong I love the japanese tanks but do you know how hard it is to keep the glass clean like that pic that Ninong posted? and pictures...if you want to post pictures then make it very accessible from above and where you can mount a tripod/camera and look down onto the top of the tank preferably....Im even considering incorporating camera mounting features onto some of my canopies for picture taking. Lets face it....we are all suckers for a few pics

[Ltspd]

Ok, 1st of all not that type of closet

I am only posting becasue I was asked to by Scott. My opinions are my opinions. I have intentionally stayed away from the BB's due to following bad opinions and costing me $$$$$ and time. What I suggest is coming from my experiences, oversights, and hazards I have encountered along the way. By trade, I am a Design Engineer and thinking outside the box is a way of life for me. Somethings work, some do not without further modifications.

Now,

I could not agree more with Scuba. For the type of tank you want its a perfect suggestion. The tallerdepth is nice, but I am 6'1" and I can not reach to the bottom back of my tank without a snorkle on. I really like the shallow looking tanks, and its ideal for Clams and SPS IMO. Lets face it, most of us dont have a lot of fish.

The single bulb is a great idea. Great coverage, lower power consumption, less heat. IMO the perfect bulb is the Iwasaki with supplements. Yes, I have the HQI's, and they color is shifting after 8 months. I would guess I can stretch them out to 14-16 months. Reason I say the 6.5K? Well they are cheap, strong, dont require a UV shield that filters some of the radation, and they last a long time. I know of (3)400w'rs that went for 2-1/2 years without much problem. The guy began to develope algea and changed the bulbs and it went away. This tank has been featured as pictures in magazines.

Smaller skimmer requirements, another great idea. Less power consumption. The ER are supposivly good, but my GOSH are they proud of them. The MR are a good skimmer, and for the $$ are hard to beat. I will say IF you had the room the best skimmer is a CC/airstone skimmer. But not many of us have space for a 5ft high tube next to our tank ;)

Scott, the more thought and considration you put into it now the better off you will be down the road. Less elec consuption, less salt cost, less chemical cost, less bulb replacement cost. I admire your planning. Please feel free to call me. I will pm you my numbers.

[Reefland]

Hey gang!

I think I have made up my mind on the skimmer, the Aqua Medic Turboflotor 2000 Multi. My only concern is the pump; Ocean Runner. What's your experience with the Ocean Runner Pump?

Scott Z.

[Reefland]

Ok, I was talking with Rocky in another thread and wanted to get some thoughts on drain and return placement behind my corner overflow.

I am going to go with a 6"x9" corner overflow and probably use a stockman style standpipe (I don't think the durso will fit). The drain will be 1.5" and the return 1". The tank will also have perimeter bracing which will take up a little space on the top of the overflow.

My question is where is the best placement for the drain and return bulkheads? Should the drain be centered and the return be towrds the actual front corner of the overflow?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

Scott Z.

[reddhaus]

I am sure you have already thought of this but if not, here goes.

I was wondering if you only put your 1-1/2" drain in your overflow box and just skip the return hole. This would give you more room in your overflow box for whatever type of standpipe you wanted and also give you more room to fit your hands when you need to work in there.

You could just use (2) 1" seaswirls for your returns and this would also give you an alternating current and possibly eliminate the need for inboard power heads for added circulation.

I am planning on doing this for the 125g that i have in the works. Let me know what you think. I'm sure i would benefit from any insight that you could provide.

[Reefland]

I have thought of that but want to put the tank as close to the wall as possible which is why I have opted to come through the overflow. I realize that leaves the problem with placing a sea-swirl as I have metnioned getting but I will deal with that when the time comes. Surely Mitch will have some insight on where to place the bulkheads right? Ltspd, how are yours positioned?

Scott Z.

[Ltspd]

I would not bring the return inside the overflow box. That real estate you can use elsewhere.

Bring it from the bottom?

The SS will keep you from pushing the tank any closer than 3-4" from the back wall. That takes into consideration the plumbing to the units themselves.

I will say this just to stir things up......

So you think a SS is less noticable than a powerhead? or spraybar?

[Reefland]

I would like to stay away from the sea-swirls too if I can by providing 3 outputs from the return in 3 different directions. In a perfect world (or should I say reef), I won't have anything in the tank except for life; no equipment what so ever!

After thinking about this more, maybe it would be better to bring the return over the back of the tank. This would make it easier to T it off and give me more flexibility with the distribution. Additionally, without bringing it through the overflow, I should be able to reduce the size to 6"x6" correct? Place the 1.5" drain dead center or a little towards the inside corner? That should work!

I love this planning stage! We change our minds so often.

Regards,
Scott Z.