New to clams

[BobinCovington]

I already posted this on the wrong thread before...sorry it was my first attempt to post anything. So I will post it again here under this topic. But thank you Su for your advice already.

I need a little help stepping up to raising clams and SPS in my tank. I have a 29 gallon tank with a 175 watt 10,000K blueline MH and two actinic URI normal output tubes (I know it's small, but I have scaled back since my divorce). I have had trouble in the past keeping the one SPS frag I tried...(it was not in very good shape when I got it from the LFS). I also have had a tough time with xenia, but the other soft corals, clowns and anemone are doing great (about 5 years old). (Sue mentioned that leathers may not be great tank buddies for clams so I might get rid of the tonga leather.)

I have an aquaC remora skimmer and 2 powerheads in the tank for circulation/filtration. Plenty of rock, some soft corals (ricordia, mushrooms, very small tonga leather) an alveapora and anemone and two clowns, shrimp, hermits. I want to add a small maxima clam and a few SPS frags. But I have a few questions...

What is the best and most "bulletproof" supplement for calcium/alk? With my small system a calcium reactor is not applicable. I have been using B-ionic, but just switched to Seachem this last week (reefplus, reef complete, reef calcium, 5 mls each 2x week). My make up water is mixed at 1 tsp/gallon reef advantage calcium or reef builder in RO water -added on alternating days. I saw this "recipe" on the GARF website.

I hate falling prey to all the advertising on supplements and I am a complete sucker for pretty bottles. Any comments on my supplementation from people that are really raising clams would be REALLY appreciated! Even if someone can just tell me if what I am doing is right.

I also want to upgrade my NO actinic tubes to VHO...is this too much light for my small tank or worth doing?

I am looking at clamsdirect for my next purchase...they seem to be pretty good judging by their site and some of the people I talk to.

Thanks for any help or comments,

Bob

[ConnieH]

Hi BobinCovington,

I can't help with your questions as I'm new to keeping clams myself plus utilizing a ca reactor, but you're on the right track talking to Barry at www.clamsdirect.com . Doing business just doesn't get any better!

By the way... WELCOME TO REEFLAND

[peterlin98]

Maybe this was an old thread, could anyone elaborate on "leathers may not be great tank buddies for clams so I might get rid of the tonga leather."

Where can I read more on this topic? I have some leathers I kept in my tank for clams - I was going to keep mostly SPS - but relocated a few soft corals from my other tank.

Thanks,
Peter

[BobinCovington]

Hi,
Yes this is a new thread (Oct 17 2002), I just registered as a new user. I was hoping to get some feedback or advice on adding clams and supplements to my tank. One person mentioned that sometimes leathers can release toxins into the tank which may be harmful to clams. I do not know too much about this... only what I have heard from others. I think the toxins are usually only released when the leather is moved or stressed. But I am not sure if I need to remove all leathers to have clams or not. Maybe someone can help elaborate on this subject on a different thread for both of us.

BTW I am still hoping for some advice on the supplements and questions in my original post...anyone?

Thanks

Bob (Parrothead in Covington, near Seattle)

[Generalee]

Have you looked into Kalkwasser for maintaing Ca and ALK? Currently I use Kalk for all my top-off water and haven't had a problem. I am finally starting to get good coraline coverage. One big factor in manitaining Ca is to have the proper Magnesium level. Without that, your Ca will never (not really) come up.

[BobinCovington]

I have never really looked at the Kalkwasser option...I always figured it had to be a pretty messy setup and potentially too potent for my small tank. Doesn't it involve drip lines and a big tub allowing the kalk to settle...so that you can use the water between the bottom sediment and the surface? I am interested in learning how it is used.

Like I said above...I am looking for an easy to follow method that is effective, so I can keep clams and SPS. I want to be consistant on the test kits before testing on live creatures (I'd rather "kill" a test kit than a beautiful clam or SPS.)

As I mentioned above, I changed over to Seachem about a week and a half ago and have been using the Reef advantage calcium in my make up water. I just tested my tank today with my salifert kits for Alk and Ca and I was kind of shocked. My kits are well over a year old, but they show nitrates 0, Alk at 2.8 to 2.97, Calcium at 420 to 440. I have never had those kind of numbers so either the seachem is working or my test kits are off a bit from being old.


By the way...this site is amazing...I think I have learned more than I have in a long time just from browsing in here.

Bob

[Generalee]

Some people scare you into thinking that kalk is a mess. I don't understand what these people are talking about. This is what I do.
I use a used 1 gallon plastic juice bottle (Ocean Spray Cranberry if it matters) and put 2 teaspoons of kalk in then fill with RO/DI water. Then shake it up and let it sit. I then add the kalk into a plastic tub (used for cat litter 4 gallon hold) and pour the solution into that.
How I get the solution into the tank is via a pump I got from a company in New London CT (magnet is at work, can't recall name). It can dose from 1 - 295 ml an hour. Currently I have mine set on 105ml and it replaces all evap. It is pretty simple. Only problem really is having enough evap to drip the kalk to replace.
If you need more info or pics, let me know.

[BobinCovington]

So let me get this straight...
I already have to mix up the reef builder and or the reef calcium to add to my make up water jugs. So you're essentially doing the same thing with kalk, but with only one jar of powder and one jug of water and then dripping into your tank.

When you take water to drip into your tank...do you have to place the intake in any special way as not to suck in any kalk sediment etc?

Does the kalk replace all supplements? Do you still add iodide or magnesium. What do you add to your tank, how much and how often?

how expensive was your dosing pump?

I hope you don't mind me asking all of these questions...

Confused means I'm just about to learn something

[ConnieH]

Bob, the purpose of dosing kalkwasser (German for lime water) is to MAINTAIN alk and ca balance. Without kalk it's more difficult to balance. I'm sure that you've noticed that when one goes up, for example the alk is up, then calcium will go down. And visa-versa. It will not replace the ca used up by your system, nor will it keep your alkalinity up. The additives for both will sometimes be necessary.

That said, one of the worst things you can do is to go chasing numbers. It sometimes causes the addition of more chemicals than necessary, or desireable. Once you figure out how much your system needs on a weekly basis, it becomes fairly routine. Not to say that random checks aren't needed.

The necessity of magnesium is often understated. If the magnesium is allowed to get low in your system, nothing you do will raise your calcium level. If you have trouble getting the ca up (which it doesn't sound like you do) then low magnesium is probably the culprit.

If you should decide to go the kalk dosing route (which is a good idea) I just happen to have a doser for sale. It's in the forum for sales on this BB. As far as how not to get the sediment at the bottom of the container (we use milk jugs, but size of container should depend on the amount of evaporation for your individual tank)... just drill the hole for the dripper thing (spigot?) about 3-4" from the bottom of the container.

[ConnieH]

Oh yeah... the means by which we get the kalk mix into the tank is we just sit the jug on top of the sump (beside the skimmer) and let it drip into the sump. No pump needed.

I edited this to mention the fact that the plastic milk jug method is of course, in lieu of a dosing pump. Hope I didn't confuse you more.

[BobinCovington]

Connie Thanks,

So in addition to the Kalk routine, what supplements to you dose? It sounds like Kalkwasser is more poular than I thought and a little easier than I thought too.
I think I have been chasing numbers on the alk/ca subject. I probably need to just hide out and read as much as can on the topic to learn more.

As far as buying your dosing pump, let me figure out what I really want to do and then maybe.

Thanks for your detailed post.

[ConnieH]

We add turbo calc (believe it's made by Kent) for the calcium and Reef Builder for the Alk. Magnesium, Iodine and Stronium about 3-4 times a year. As you know, we topoff with kalk (about a gallon of the mix per day). Be sure to watch your PH when adding these chemicals, Bob.

By the way, how long has your tank been set up? If it's a fairly new tank, don't start adding chemicals right away. Let your tank find it's own natural balance, and then supplement when needed.

You're definitely on the right track, and doing the right thing by researching BEFORE the fact... lots of us have realized a mistake only AFTER an impulse purchase, and by then it was too late.

Best of luck, and read, read, read... and then read some more. But most of all, relax and enjoy! Sometimes we make this "natural" hobby harder than it has to be.

[Generalee]

Just wanted to say some more about kalk. You will want to avoid plastics with the number 1 and 7 on them as the saturated solution will slowly melt the plastic.
I add Kent Ca maybe once a week. The kalk does seem to do a good job at maintaining both my Alk and Ca. I will probably never add iodine again to my system. I do a 10% water change a week or so, and belive any supplements are replaced with that.
If you do have a sump (I don't) you could use gravity to drip kalk and pick-up a IV unit at a med store so you can adjust the flow. I have a pump because my container is under the stand and it pumps it up to the tank.
Also, you can make your soluition stronger or weaker. I use 2 teaspoons per gallon, You will experiemnt, if you don't have a lot of evap, maybe you want 2.5-3.5 teaspoons per gallon. Depends on your load to. Good luck.
BTW Mrs. Wages pickling lime is the same thing as Kalkwasser, just over 1/2 cheaper.

[zhenya]

Hi Bob,
The advice given is exellent and all I like to add if I may,there is a cheaper version of the kalk powder- pickling lime that you can buy in a grocery store.Plus, kalkwasser is for maintaining values of alk and calcium and it is a balanced additive wich you can add at one time instead of separate components.To bring the values up to level you'll need something like turbo calcium by Kent.Depending on your current readings you might need alot of it at one time and then you can maintain it with the limewater,like Connie said.
I personaly been dosing only kalk for about 2yrs now and nothing else.If you do regular water changes all other trace elememnts should be replanished at that time.I do not add iodine in any form as I think it's not needed and it get replaced at w/ch.

[BobinCovington]

Thanks for all the help. I think my next step is to go visit some tanks that are dosing kalk and see how they are setting up their drip systems in person. Sometimes it helps to see a working system then ideas come to mind to improve it or adapt it for my use.
I have this disease...I just can't just do things normal (I always have to figure out a way to be the absolute most efficient). I think I lived on a boat too long, because I always want the simplest design that does what you need and is well thought out for possible failure scenarios. You should see my legal pads with drawings all over my house LOL

Next Step: Power management Panel for the tank (can't wait)

BTW Connie, I have had my tank for about 5 years and the anemone is doing great and so are the "old" clownfish (Homie and Bozo). I used to have a 100 gallon reef but downgraded to the 29. I was one of those guys in the 80's who was building skimmers myself and making wet dry filters using 29 gallon tanks and plastic shotgun waddings instead of bioballs.

I feel pretty comfortable with fish, reef tanks, and soft corals (except xenia), but I want to make the jump to clams and some sps. I just want the water to be good enough not to lose animals.

You guys are a huge help...what a great BB!

"I'm not addicted to reef tanks, I can quit anytime I want to... I just don't want to"

[ConnieH]

Sounds great, Bob. You certainly have a rich history! Shotgun "waddings," eh? Funny I bet when you think about it now.

So you have a clown named Bozo too? Here is our Bozo's Mrs. about a year or two ago. (Since then the dusters just disappeared overnight, much to our pairs' dismay )