[fuzednl0st]

Hi all...

I've now had my tank up an running about 2ish weeks... everything looks good... ph at 8.2ish almost no trace or nitrate.... Just added the clean up crew 6 red leg hermits and 6 turbo snails.

Questions....

1.
When is it best to do a water change on a new tank... and how should I go about doing this... i.e. leave the water separate and heat overnight... with salt added??? and should I aerate it??

2.
I would like to add some fish to the tank at some point soon... as it has about 20Kg's of Live Rock, its a 36 gallon tank, I was wanting to go for a mandarin goby (my LFS say its fine to add straight away as I have enough live rock to support one) then I'm not sure what would be good in this tank with the mandarin... really want colour... coral beauty maybe....

Any suggestions welcome...

Thanks in advance

[Bughead]

i'm going to jump on this right away and I'm sure others will put in their 2cents. Nix the Mandarin, for now anyway. You need at least a 55 gal mature set-up with lots of life in the sand and rocks. These guys have a propensity to starve to death unless a constant supply of live copepods, etc. are available. Yes, some will accept prepared food, so when the time comes to consider one of these beauties, make sure he's eating at the LFS. Mine had been at Petco for 5 weeks in a bare tank and gobbled up food when I asked to see him eat. I've had him in my 180 for 6 months now, and although he's plump, I never see him eat what I put in.

Coral Beauty is great, if you happen to get a good one. I had two, that only lived about a month each. But then I lucked out and got one from a private party and she's been queen of the small tank for almost a year now.

For color, how about a royal gramma. Maybe 2 will pair up (or fight to the death, so do research on pairing techniques). Dottybacks are also bright and beautiful, but they can get mean. Maroon clowns, my favorite of the clownfish, are very actractive, but can grow huge. Fortunately, it takes a long time.

So baloney about what your LFS guy said about your 20 lbs of lr being enough to support a mandarin. Ain't true! Don't waste its life. The guy just wants to sell you a fish, and although he may believe he's giving you right info, he's not.

[fuzednl0st]

Thankyou very much....


what would your ideas be about these guys in this tank then?


Hawkfish -
Regal Tang -
Coral Beauty -

Cowfish - Looks like it could get too big for the tank....
Mandarin Goby - look like never or maybe 6 months time if I keep the fish stock very low or get a bigger tank... will see

[Reinhold]

Hawkfish can be quite aggressive in a reef tank. I had one which I could never catch to bring him back to the LFS.

I'd recommend a Clownfish, perhaps a Green Chromis or a Royal Gramma. The tank is too small for a tang.

[Ninong]

Hi Fuz, welcome to Reefland.

I would pass on the Hawkfish unless you are willing to accept the limitations that it will place on your choice of other inhabitants. Don't even consider a tang in a 36-gal tank... that would be asking for trouble. They need larger tanks. The Coral Beauty might work in a 36-gal tank but that's a little on the small side for any of the Centropyge angels. Also, the Coral Beauty might nip on some of your corals and clams. It's a hit or miss proposition.

The Cowfish would be a very bad choice for lots of reasons. The Mandarin Dragonet (it's not a goby) really requires more than 44-lbs (20 kg) of live rock to thrive. A better minimum would be 75-lbs (34 kg). Even in those instances where the Mandarin is taking commercial food, it is still a bad idea to put them in a tank without an adequate supply of live natural food, which is what they require for long term survival.

Unfortunately your LFS sounds like a lot of the LFS everywhere. As far as they are concerned, it's OK to add just about anything "straight away." From now on, I suggest you disregard absolutely everything that LFS tells you and do your own research first. Even if the size of the tank were adequate, it is never a good idea to add angels or dragonets "straight away" because the tank is not mature enough.

[Reinhold]

On the topic of "Local Fish Store" incompetence, when I had my 55 gallon Fish-Only tank, I relied on an LFS 50 miles away in a larger town for advice.

I wound up with a Sohal Tang, an adult Imperator Angel, a large Yellow Tang, a Purple Tang, a Dogface Puffer, a Clown Trigger and several assorted damsels....all in the same tank.

Oddly enough, they lived for three years, until my tank (in an un-air conditioned room) heated up during a hot spell, and they died in 92 degree water.

[Bughead]

Yeah, think small. I have one comment about the green chromis. These are the least aggressive of the damsels, but also the least hardy. As schooling fish they do best in groups of at least six. As far as other kinds of damsels go, unless you really like the little buggers, stay away from them. They get mean and won't leave anything else in peace and it's well nigh impossible to catch them out of the tank without taking out all the rock, setting traps, removing all the water, then saying Heck with it, put the whole tank in the dumpster and start over. OK, that's a bit of an exageration, but you get the idea.

I still vote for a royal gramma, a couple of clowns, (not two maroons, they are hard to pair), and maybe a orange spot hawkfish. Research various gobies, they are reef safe. Also blennies. Trouble with these is they like to hide a lot.

[fuzednl0st]

thanks guys,

the local lfs in question are normally very very good, I have not heard a bad name against them, well when it comes to their live rock anyway.

I think I will steer clear of the mandarin... might opt for a flame hawk and look at what choice this gives me... as I think they have a great character and would look great in the tank.

The tanks been up for about 3 weeks now, just cycling it.

when do you guys think its best to add fish... I will do a water change maybe next weekend depending on the ph/nitrate/nitrite levels.

When would it be safe to add my first soft coral.. was looking at the pulsing xenia's.

[Ninong]

Just be aware that if you choose a Flame Hawk it will be a threat to any smaller fish and it will eat any crustaceans you put into the tank. So you can forget about any cleaner shrimp or hermit crabs.

[Reinhold]

In my humble opinion, Hawkfish are just not worth the limitations they impose on your tank.

[kevinpo]

I agree with the above.
Here is my list for a tank of your size. They have a very high probability of peaceful coexistance and are very cool fish.

Banggai Cardinalfish (Pterapogon kauderni)

Chalk Bass (Serranus tortugarum)

Flasher Wrasse of the Paracheilinus Genus
These include:
P. carpenteri
P. filaentosus
P. mccoskeri
P. angulatus
and others.

Royal Gramma (Gramma loreto)

Ocellaris Anemonefish (Amphiprion ocellaris)

Orange Striped cardinalfish (Apogon cyanosoma)

I think pictures of the above list of fish can be found on this site:
http://www.fishbase.org/search.cfm

Cheers,
Kevin

[dougchambers]

I'm going to add a slightly different perspective here. Unless I missed it, you didn't mention what type of tank you want in the long run. If you are going to stick mostly with fish and hardy corals, you should be fine with the recommendations provided.

If you are planning to add delicate corals or clams later, you need to be very selective in what fish you add now. For instance, if you want clams, you need to watch out for angels and a host of other fish that are known to pick.

Good luck and welcome aboard!

Doug

[zhenya]

Kevin,
Where the heck've you been when I were choosing my fishes for my first tank This is exellent list for a 36 gallon tank and offers many choices.I would definately stay clear from flame hawkfish as I have one and I can tell you that it's a very nasty fish towards anything smaller then they are.

[kevinpo]

Gene,
I was working on that list

Here are a few more good choices that came to mind:

Fire Goby (Nemateleotris magnifica)

Purple Firefish (Nemateleotris decora)

Zebra Dart Goby (Ptereleotris zebra)

Neon Goby (Gobiosoma oceanops)

Regards,
Kevin

PS: These and the first list are also clam, reef and delicate coral safe.

[fuzednl0st]

I must say thankyou all very very much for your advice...

The tank was to be fish only, but i've looked into this hobby for the past 4/5 months before deciding to set it up... and have now decided to go down the reef route.

I was looking at adding a pulsing xenia as a start... not sure about a clam at the moment...they do look nice... but we will see..

This is probably the first board i've come across with so many helpfull people... thank you all again...

[jsaltzgi]

Ditto on the gobies! I have two firefish in my 75- one of the red variety, and a Helfrichi- it's weird, but they act like they've paired up- they even sleep in the same cave together at night... There are lots of other nice gobies. I also have a Royal Gramma, a pair of Percula clowns, a six-line wrase, and a Banggai cardinal. I'm not a big fan of the hawks, either... The only thing I don't like about the clowns is that they're pretty rough on my two frogspawns... Wait half a year or so, and if you have a lot more than the 40 kg of live rock and can find a mandarin that is eating and looks healthy, og for it if you haven't already "maxed out" your fish load!

What Doug said about your vision for the tank is important- if you're pretty sure you're going to be mostly fish and not corals other than some less delicate ones, I'd even try one of the smaller dwarf angels- like a flameback or something. Angels seem to be a hit or miss thing in a reef tank, especially a smaller tank where there is more opportunity for them to pick at the same piece of rock (and also corals...) all the time. You're on the right track for reasearching before you buy.

James

[kevinpo]

fuzednl0st,
Pulsing Xenia will do best if put in an established tank 9-12 months old. They are a coral that actually likes moderate to high DOC's, moderate flow, and high light.

HTH,
Kevin

[fuzednl0st]

Thanks.... what would you recommend as a first good soft coral??
Then tank is now covered in the brown slime alge... anything I can do to get rid... the snails are trying hard but not doing brilliantly at controlling it...


P.S.
saw for the first time yday some copeopods... tiny little critters all over the place... ) looks good...

Will post a pic once its viewable...

[fuzednl0st]

btw what would a DOC be?

[Ninong]

Originally posted by fuzednl0st
btw what would a DOC be?

Dissolved organic carbon, dissolved organic compounds, also called DOM = dissolved organic matter.