Noisy Closed Loop

organicreefer · 01-03-2003, 12:54 PM

like i posted above- the mags flow charts are based on 1.5 inch pipes-in and out

Lunchbucket · 01-03-2003, 01:57 PM

weird wonder why they are 1.5" when most are 1/2" in/out and 3/4" in/out

well, i am off to the local Farm supply and hardware store to try to find a stainer bigger than the 3/4" one. only bad thing is i don't think it will if in my overflow now. would the 3/4" strainer on a 1.25" pipe just ruin the effect of using 1.25"?? i am gonna use 1.25" pipe all the way to the union and ballvalve right before the intake of the pump. then i am gonna use the same 3/4" out plan that i was going to before.

so should i get a new bigger strainer or will the 3/4" work. i am thinking it shouldn't affect it that much but you never know

advice on the strainer??
Lunchbucket

organicreefer · 01-03-2003, 02:02 PM

yeah -it is kinda stupid aint it......

i guess they decided after the fact that 1.5 inch would give better flow rates=better advertising ?

Lunchbucket · 01-03-2003, 05:43 PM

well, got all the stuff (i hope

) that i needed at the store. i decided against the 3/4" strainer. so i DIY'ed one

here it is

another pics of the side

it is a 2" end cap w/ a 2" to 1 1/4" reducer inside of it...then 1 1/4" pipe, which is what i am using for the inlet! i took it to work quick and they put it on the table saw and did those slits in it.

you think that will work ok? i don't think i should limit flow much. i saw some 1 1/2" basket strainers but they are HUGE and they were 9 bucks. this cost me less than 4!!

let me know what you think. i will post pics of my wavemaker closed loop set up tomrrow.

off to work
Lunchbucket

jeff967 · 01-03-2003, 07:20 PM

I whould have postted sooner but that d**m job thing got in my way. I first plumbed the 9 with 3/4 on both ends very noisy. I did a search on RC the only board I knew of at that time, found a simular thred.
I replumed with 1in. both ends allmost worked, mabe every 30 or 40 min. pump noise from hell for 10 sec., have me running to tank room, to find nothing. put 1 1/4 on my intake side all is ok

Lunchbucket · 01-03-2003, 11:44 PM

thanks jeff. i will be using 1 1/4 on the intake and 3/4 on the outlets on a cool brand new wavemaker...will reviel my results soon...but i might have a problem...broken shaft on my mag 950 for the closed loop

.

they 950s are all 1 piece shaft right???

Lunchbucket

Ltspd · 01-04-2003, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by organicreefer
scott,

1.5 inch pipes are reccomended for the mag 18 and neccesary to acheive the flow rates listed

Please provide proof.

If this were the case a MAG18 that pushes 1800 at 0 with 3/4" inlet and outlet actually only pushes 25% of that or 450gph since its not run thru 1-1/2 pipe. AND if that were the case all the people running beckett skimmers with a mag 18 arent getting enough gph to push the beckett to performance levels, nor would the pumps be able to overcome much head pressure.

Lunchbucket · 01-04-2003, 05:37 PM

well i decided not to add the mag 950. i just stuck this new wavemaker called the SCWD "squid" on my mag 700 closed loop. works great as of now!!

check it out!
here is my web page about it

also here is a discussion on RC about it

Lunchbucket

**golfish** · 01-04-2003, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by organicreefer
scott,

1.5 inch pipes are reccomended for the mag 18 and neccesary to acheive the flow rates listed

Hmmm, I have to agree with Paul on this one....I think Organic is talking about the Dolphin Amp Master and or AquaSea's pumps...

**kevinpo** · 01-04-2003, 08:57 PM

Scott,
I went to the mfg. site and it only says the intake and output are 3/4' but to use hose with a 1" I.D. I would try a larger intake 1.5" and see if that helps but would leave the output alone.

Regards,
Kevin

***Reefland*** · 01-04-2003, 09:14 PM

Dissappointing news...

I switched the input over to 1.5", leaving the output 1" and it is no better; actually it may be a little worse. I am at a total loss here. When the pump is turned all the way up, the noise is very loud (this isn't pump noise, but it sounds like bubbles being chopped by the impeller) and I get a ton of bubbles in the tank.

I am going to try to seal all of the new joints again and re-prime it to see if that helps any. You can see in the picture that I attached where the reduction on the input takes place and how far the pump has to be throttled back to not make the noise.

Lunchbucket · 01-04-2003, 09:22 PM

try 3/4" out. maybe 1" isn't enough back pressure!!

if you are getting bubbles you HAVE a leak. you won't get any when you don't have one. you will have to reglue the fittings or put a bead around them. how long do you let it run before you shut it off? mine takes a minute or 2 to get the bubbles out.

check your mag's inlet it is cracked? mine was and that is where i got my bubbles. you using thread tape?

Lunchbucket

***Reefland*** · 01-04-2003, 09:36 PM

I guess the air leak could be on the in or output; both will cause the bubbles correct? The only joint that isn't sealed is the elbow in the tank on the output, I have this free turning so I can adjust the flow direction when I get the pump permanently placed. Additionally, there are NO water leaks but I guess the whole could be small enough to not leak water and still draw in air?

I am using teflon tape for the only 2 threaded joints, the in and out connected to the pump.

Regards,

Lunchbucket · 01-04-2003, 09:37 PM

if that outlet is under water it isn't a problem. all my outlets aren't glued if they are under water so i can adjust them if need be. check the rest of your connections.

Lunchbucket

***Reefland*** · 01-04-2003, 09:40 PM

It isn't submerged and I guess it could be drawing in air. However if the air is being drawn in that close to the actual outlet, the bubbles wouldn't be that fine would they?

I think I will wrap some tape around the PVC pipe and slide the elbow on over it, that will atleast make it tighter.

Regards,

**kevinpo** · 01-04-2003, 09:43 PM

Scott,
The output is under pressure so it will leak. The input is under vacuum so it can draw air in if there is a small leak. I hope you find a solution. Things like that really frustrate me.

Regards,
Kevin

organicreefer · 01-05-2003, 03:01 AM

if you have a mag -just look in youre instructions under the flow rates-itll tell you right there what the recomended pipe diameter is-i happen to have my mag 7 in front of me and quote: "use large diameter pipe for maximum flow".it doesnt specify.

my mag 18 instructions are somewhere outside-the say to use 1.5 inch pipes specifically.

organicreefer · 01-05-2003, 03:08 AM

hey scott: i wouldnt reduce on an elbow like that ...use larger pipe all the way in with a reducer bushing at the last possible point.
does the pump make niose if run submerged not connected to the pipes?
maybe somethings wrong with youre impellar...any defects (little protrusions )on the plastic blades?

organicreefer · 01-05-2003, 03:15 AM

hmmm-maybe its all that hard pipe too- flexible tubing might do the trick.

got it on a pad?mabye some padding between the pipes and the tank might help?

maybe a better pump perhaps??mags arent good external pumps.

random thoughts

Ltspd · 01-05-2003, 08:39 AM

Scott,

Do tell us, now that you spent the money on the larger PVC you can tell a HUGE diffrence in the flow cant you?

01-03-2003, 01:57 PM	#22
Lunchbucket Tenant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brookings, SD Posts: 67	weird wonder why they are 1.5" when most are 1/2" in/out and 3/4" in/out well, i am off to the local Farm supply and hardware store to try to find a stainer bigger than the 3/4" one. only bad thing is i don't think it will if in my overflow now. would the 3/4" strainer on a 1.25" pipe just ruin the effect of using 1.25"?? i am gonna use 1.25" pipe all the way to the union and ballvalve right before the intake of the pump. then i am gonna use the same 3/4" out plan that i was going to before. so should i get a new bigger strainer or will the 3/4" work. i am thinking it shouldn't affect it that much but you never know advice on the strainer?? Lunchbucket __________________ "Master of the Box Lunch" Check out my nano Other Reef Pics

01-03-2003, 05:43 PM	#24
Lunchbucket Tenant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brookings, SD Posts: 67	well, got all the stuff (i hope ) that i needed at the store. i decided against the 3/4" strainer. so i DIY'ed one here it is another pics of the side it is a 2" end cap w/ a 2" to 1 1/4" reducer inside of it...then 1 1/4" pipe, which is what i am using for the inlet! i took it to work quick and they put it on the table saw and did those slits in it. you think that will work ok? i don't think i should limit flow much. i saw some 1 1/2" basket strainers but they are HUGE and they were 9 bucks. this cost me less than 4!! let me know what you think. i will post pics of my wavemaker closed loop set up tomrrow. off to work Lunchbucket __________________ "Master of the Box Lunch" Check out my nano Other Reef Pics

01-03-2003, 11:44 PM	#26
Lunchbucket Tenant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brookings, SD Posts: 67	thanks jeff. i will be using 1 1/4 on the intake and 3/4 on the outlets on a cool brand new wavemaker...will reviel my results soon...but i might have a problem...broken shaft on my mag 950 for the closed loop . they 950s are all 1 piece shaft right??? Lunchbucket __________________ "Master of the Box Lunch" Check out my nano Other Reef Pics

01-04-2003, 05:37 PM	#28
Lunchbucket Tenant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brookings, SD Posts: 67	well i decided not to add the mag 950. i just stuck this new wavemaker called the SCWD "squid" on my mag 700 closed loop. works great as of now!! check it out! here is my web page about it also here is a discussion on RC about it Lunchbucket __________________ "Master of the Box Lunch" Check out my nano Other Reef Pics

01-04-2003, 08:57 PM	#30
kevinpo Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Spokane Valley WA Posts: 2,460	Scott, I went to the mfg. site and it only says the intake and output are 3/4' but to use hose with a 1" I.D. I would try a larger intake 1.5" and see if that helps but would leave the output alone. Regards, Kevin __________________ SPSguy On - On

01-03-2003, 12:54 PM	#21
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	like i posted above- the mags flow charts are based on 1.5 inch pipes-in and out

01-03-2003, 02:02 PM	#23
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	yeah -it is kinda stupid aint it...... i guess they decided after the fact that 1.5 inch would give better flow rates=better advertising ?

01-03-2003, 07:20 PM	#25
jeff967 Tenant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Monroe, Louisiana Posts: 56	I whould have postted sooner but that d**m job thing got in my way. I first plumbed the 9 with 3/4 on both ends very noisy. I did a search on RC the only board I knew of at that time, found a simular thred. I replumed with 1in. both ends allmost worked, mabe every 30 or 40 min. pump noise from hell for 10 sec., have me running to tank room, to find nothing. put 1 1/4 on my intake side all is ok

01-04-2003, 09:14 PM	#31
*Reefland* Owner Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bardstown, KY Posts: 13,161	Dissappointing news... I switched the input over to 1.5", leaving the output 1" and it is no better; actually it may be a little worse. I am at a total loss here. When the pump is turned all the way up, the noise is very loud (this isn't pump noise, but it sounds like bubbles being chopped by the impeller) and I get a ton of bubbles in the tank. I am going to try to seal all of the new joints again and re-prime it to see if that helps any. You can see in the picture that I attached where the reduction on the input takes place and how far the pump has to be throttled back to not make the noise. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Scott Z. 75 Gallon Reef Log Powered by Reefland's Personal Online Aquarium Log

01-04-2003, 09:22 PM	#32
Lunchbucket Tenant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brookings, SD Posts: 67	try 3/4" out. maybe 1" isn't enough back pressure!! if you are getting bubbles you HAVE a leak. you won't get any when you don't have one. you will have to reglue the fittings or put a bead around them. how long do you let it run before you shut it off? mine takes a minute or 2 to get the bubbles out. check your mag's inlet it is cracked? mine was and that is where i got my bubbles. you using thread tape? Lunchbucket __________________ "Master of the Box Lunch" Check out my nano Other Reef Pics Last edited by Lunchbucket; 01-04-2003 at 09:25 PM.

01-04-2003, 09:36 PM	#33
*Reefland* Owner Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bardstown, KY Posts: 13,161	I guess the air leak could be on the in or output; both will cause the bubbles correct? The only joint that isn't sealed is the elbow in the tank on the output, I have this free turning so I can adjust the flow direction when I get the pump permanently placed. Additionally, there are NO water leaks but I guess the whole could be small enough to not leak water and still draw in air? I am using teflon tape for the only 2 threaded joints, the in and out connected to the pump. Regards, __________________ Scott Z. 75 Gallon Reef Log Powered by Reefland's Personal Online Aquarium Log

01-04-2003, 09:37 PM	#34
Lunchbucket Tenant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brookings, SD Posts: 67	if that outlet is under water it isn't a problem. all my outlets aren't glued if they are under water so i can adjust them if need be. check the rest of your connections. Lunchbucket __________________ "Master of the Box Lunch" Check out my nano Other Reef Pics

01-04-2003, 09:40 PM	#35
*Reefland* Owner Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bardstown, KY Posts: 13,161	It isn't submerged and I guess it could be drawing in air. However if the air is being drawn in that close to the actual outlet, the bubbles wouldn't be that fine would they? I think I will wrap some tape around the PVC pipe and slide the elbow on over it, that will atleast make it tighter. Regards, __________________ Scott Z. 75 Gallon Reef Log Powered by Reefland's Personal Online Aquarium Log

01-04-2003, 09:43 PM	#36
kevinpo Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Spokane Valley WA Posts: 2,460	Scott, The output is under pressure so it will leak. The input is under vacuum so it can draw air in if there is a small leak. I hope you find a solution. Things like that really frustrate me. Regards, Kevin __________________ SPSguy On - On

01-05-2003, 03:01 AM	#37
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	RE:PROOF if you have a mag -just look in youre instructions under the flow rates-itll tell you right there what the recomended pipe diameter is-i happen to have my mag 7 in front of me and quote: "use large diameter pipe for maximum flow".it doesnt specify. my mag 18 instructions are somewhere outside-the say to use 1.5 inch pipes specifically.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

01-05-2003, 03:08 AM	#38
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	hey scott: i wouldnt reduce on an elbow like that ...use larger pipe all the way in with a reducer bushing at the last possible point. does the pump make niose if run submerged not connected to the pipes? maybe somethings wrong with youre impellar...any defects (little protrusions )on the plastic blades?

01-05-2003, 03:15 AM	#39
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	hmmm-maybe its all that hard pipe too- flexible tubing might do the trick. got it on a pad?mabye some padding between the pipes and the tank might help? maybe a better pump perhaps??mags arent good external pumps. random thoughts

01-05-2003, 08:39 AM	#40
Ltspd Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Arden, NC USA Posts: 2,767	Scott, Do tell us, now that you spent the money on the larger PVC you can tell a HUGE diffrence in the flow cant you? __________________ Paul C Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

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